Princess or Round? - Budget Buyer

[needaring]

Hi All,

I guess since I never received a response on my last post in my other topic (Popping the Big Question - Budget Buyer), this means the diamond I mentioned wasn''t worth talking about.

Anyway, I am thinking about possibly getting a round cut now instead of the princess cut. My question is this: What will give me the better value "all around"?

Will a Round Cut look bigger than a princess cut? Will I be able to get a bigger stone for my money if I go round? I am thinking about something over 3/4 CT and atleast I Color with atleast SI2 Clarity.

I have a budget of just under $2000 (Including setting). I know she likes princess cuts but she also likes 3 stone rings. I am buying this stone with the intention of upgrading the setting later on down the road.

Advice is needed quickly as I am looking to do something in the next few weeks. If you need a little history, please view my other topic.

Thanks again all for all your help!

 

[Mara]

Sorry that no one responded to your previous post. I would bump it up by just replying..it will go to the top of the list. Anyway..check out www.gemappraisers.com and click on Charts for Cut Grades, find princess and find your stone on it. That will give you an idea of what basic cut grade it belongs within.

Anyway to address your Q on round vs princess. You will be able to get a smaller round stone vs a larger princess stone with your $$. I ran a quick search and found the following 3 stones for potential comparisons:


http://www.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=1308583&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock

round .70c H SI1 Ideal AGS 0 GIA certed $2055


http://www.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=1280581&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=

princess .70 I SI2 potentially well-dimensioned princess $1084


http://www.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=1400416&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=

princess .76 G SI1 potentially well-dimensioned princess $1930

The first one is a round .70 potentially well cut stone for $2k. The second and third are princess .70 and .76 stones which have the potential to be well cut stones (princesses are a little tricky as Im sure you have learned). The dimensions of the round are something like 5.5x3.5 and the princess .76c is around 5.2x4.0. So what that means is that a well cut round will have a slightly larger diameter from a top view than a princess, and that princesses in general may carry more weight in their depth, weight that does not pay off in a top diameter way. So basically the round .70c will look bigger...somewhat noticeably bigger than the larger carat princess. You may need to get a .85/.90c princess to have it look as big as the round stone, face up. BTW that .70c round looks like it could be quite the deal, a nice price for a H/SI1 if it has no eye-visible inclusions and really is a well cut stone, it is very very nicely priced. There were no other stones quite so near to that $$ range when I searched.

That may factor into your decision. If you just want the most sparkly stone, regardless of the diameter or carat weight, you should go with a well cut round, as they return the most light vs fancies. But some people really like the look of a fancy stone. It's all about preference. What do you think your girl would like best as the 'base' for her future 3 stone ring?

Hope that helped somewhat. Bump up your other post and hopefully someone will respond.

 

[WalnutCrunch]

----------------
On 3/25/2003 12

4:46 AM Mara wrote:

The first one is a round .70 potentially well cut stone for $2k. The second and third are princess .70 and .76 stones which have the potential to be well cut stones (princesses are a little tricky as Im sure you have learned). The dimensions of the round are something like 5.5x3.5 and the princess .76c is around 5.2x4.0. So what that means is that a well cut round will have a slightly larger diameter from a top view than a princess, and that princesses in general may carry more weight in their depth, weight that does not pay off in a top diameter way. So basically the round .70c will look bigger...somewhat noticeably bigger than the larger carat princess. You may need to get a .85/.90c princess to have it look as big as the round stone, face up. BTW that .70c round looks like it could be quite the deal, a nice price for a H/SI1 if it has no eye-visible inclusions and really is a well cut stone, it is very very nicely priced. There were no other stones quite so near to that $$ range when I searched.

----------------

Hmmmm... The math geek part of me got excited when I read this and I brought out the ol' calculator...

At 5.2x5.2mm, the diagonal of the princess stone would be 7.4mm. So while comparing width of the princess to the diameter of the round, the round is slightly bigger; when comparing the diagonal vs diameter, princess is the clear winner.

At 5.2x5.2mm, the top down surface area of the princess is 27.0mm^2. The area of a 5.5mm round is 23.8mm^2. The princess has a slight bigger surface area too (well, not really "surface" area, but you know what I mean).

So I think for the same price, you do get a bigger stone on paper if you go for a princess. However, when you factor in the light return characteristics of the two shapes, you may find that well-cut rounds have a bigger perceived size.

But anyway, this is not geometry class. As Mara says, it's all a matter of preference. And only the person who this ring is intended for will be able to decide which shape gives the best "value".

WC

 

[Giangi]

Hello!!!!! I found a few stones:


Round H&A:

11-P81052 0.71 H SI2 AGS $2,164 61.7 57 ID ID None 5.7x5.74x3.53

11-P81051 0.71 H SI2 AGS $2,164 61.9 56 ID ID None 5.68x5.71x3.53


Princesses:

1436653 0.91 I SI2 GIA $2,064 72.6 74 VG GD None 5.42x5.36x3.89

1261373 0.89 I SI2 GIA $1,875 73.3 63 VG GD None 5.67x5.09x3.73


Round Ideal:

Shape Round AGS Ideal Cut @ 2082$
Carat 0.77
Color J
Clarity SI2
Measurements (mm) 5.88-5.91 x 3.64
Table % 55
Depth % 61.7
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle TMF
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence ---

Shape Round GIA Ideal Cut @ 1987$
Carat 0.74
Color I
Clarity SI2
Measurements (mm) 5.84-5.88 x 3.58
Table % 56
Depth % 61.1
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Excellent
Girdle TMF
Culet None
Fluorescence ---

 

[needaring]

Giangi,

Where did you find this stone?

"1261373 0.89 I SI2 GIA $1,875 73.3 63 VG GD None 5.67x5.09x3.73"

Might be a winner.

Thanks.

 

[Giangi]

It's from dirtcheapdiamonds.com

 

[Hest88]

You're going to be able to get a larger princess than a round for the same amount of money. Plus, I find that visually, due to the corners I guess, princesses look bigger. However, a well-cut princess is certainly not going to sparkle the way a well-cut round can, and it is certainly a bit harder to find well-cut princesses.

 

[barry]

Have to disagree with you Hest. A beautifully cut
Princess will scintillate and disperse light
like crazy.

Barry
www.superbcert.com

 

[needaring]

I got some specs on the stone I mentioned above. Is it just me or does this stone look like a rectangle?

Does anyone care to offer any insight? Will it look like a rectangle in person?

Specs Below: (I had to crop some parts out to make the image fit)

 

[Mara]

Note that the girdle is very thin to very thick. This may affect the stone in a negative way. Get the crown and pavilion angles for more information.

I too thought that princess cuts are supposed to be square, but I have seen people say that some more rectangular ones are nice too. So I have no idea...

Where is the plot of the inclusions? Since this is an SI2 I would pay attention to that and ask the vendor for 100% guarantee that its eye-clean.

 

[needaring]

Thanks for the info.

I was just contacted by the vendor. The stone is no longer available. Oh well.....So close, yet so far!

Back to the searches again.

I am still curious, about the rectangle shape, though.

 

[Mara]

Contact Barry at SuperbCert...they are reputed to have some very well-cut princess stones. They may be out of your budget slightly OR you may have to downsize in the carat weight but I would listen to what he has to say about a well cut stone vs a non well cut stone..and then make a decision on if you want to continue to pursue the princess or go with a round.

 

[Giangi]

Oh, I'm so sorry it's sold!!!!!!!!!
As per square/rectangular shape, it's up to you... Do you prefer square or rectangle?

 

[Hest88]

----------------
On 3/25/2003 12:20:39 PM barry wrote:

Have to disagree with you Hest. A beautifully cut
Princess will scintillate and disperse light
like crazy.
----------------

Awww, Barry, you just want me to mention SuperbCert princesses, don't ya?

I agree some princesses can sparkle like mad, but personally I haven't seen one that compares to an ideal RB. However, if you'd like to send me a SC RB and a SC princess, I may revise my opinion.

 

[barry]

Hest;

Be happy to;
if you're ever in New York, stop by and say
hello.

Barry
www.superbcert.com

 

[Spyder]

Round diamonds can achieve the greatest sparkliness (technical term) and nothing can compare with a well cut round.

I would recommend a well cut sparkly round such as this 0.42 G VS1 or this 0.41 F VVS1. A sparkly diamond will appear bigger, and lots of sparkle can make up for anything.

A small diamond will look bigger if the setting band is narrow, such as a tiffany. That will give you one fine and impressive ring. Also if you go with 6 prongs, I think that also makes the diamond look bigger, since the prongs add to the illusion of diameter. A sparkly 0.42 set in a six prong tiffany clone will be the most bang for your buck imho.

 

[Hest88]

----------------
On 3/25/2003 8

1:22 PM Spyder wrote:

A sparkly 0.42 set in a six prong tiffany clone will be the most bang for your buck imho.
----------------

Eh. Sorry, gotta disagree. A RB under half a carat isn't going to look anywhere near as impressive as a .70 decently cut princess. Most women respond first to size.

 

[Mara]

What happened to my RB .70c H SI1 for $2055..I thought that one was pretty good!!

If you have to go too much under the .70c marker for a RB, you may want to seriously still consider a princess, they do run cheaper it seems. The trick is finding a good one!!

 

[needaring]

Hi Mara,

I was hoping on atleast 3/4.

I am still weighing my options and I should hopefully have some conetenders soon.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I too am shopping for a .75 ct. I am dead set on round to set in a bezel style pendant for the classic look necklace. I was thinking if I "splurged" and bought a nice diamond for the pendant, I could pass it on to one of my kids one day, perhaps for an engagement ring.

I really really wondered the true effect of cut on the appearance of a round diamond. I learned a major Mall chain is now carrying H&A's, so I went to see for myself. I looked at .73 ct H, SI-1, H&A that the Mall store rep said was AGS000 and GIA Ideal (I didn't see papers and would definitely do so before considering purchase). While I was looking at the H&A pattern in a viewer, he went on and on about their search for and rejection of stones for their "Master Piece" collection. LOL I would swear, if I hadn't seen the measurements and ct weight with my own eyes, I was looking at a full carat diamond. The white light requires sunglasses and the rainbow of colors is outstanding! The experts in this forum are absolutely correct. Cut, Cut, Cut!

And BTW, they were asking more than double what you would pay for a similar stone from any of the vendors here.

 

[Mara]

Keep in mind that you may potentially be paying more for reaching the .75c mark as opposed to looking at something just shy of that ctw. Also, visually, there will really be no difference between a .70 and a .75c well cut stone. If you start getting into the shallower depth, larger table stones you may see a difference, but if you are comparing excellent/ideal cut stones to each other, the eye will not detect a difference.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Glad you mentioned price Mara! I thought pricing was incremental, and the $/carat price range was .60 to .69, .70 to .79, and so on up to a carat. I've seen others mention the premium for a true .75 ct. weight as opposed to slightly under or over. Why is that??

 

[Giangi]

Forget a 0.40... It will look QUITE small!!!!
I'd look for an SI 2... At this size it should look clean to the naked eye...
I've already posted these diamonds, but in case you didn't see them, here we go again

:

Round H&A:

11-P81052 0.71 H SI2 AGS $2,164 61.7 57 ID ID None 5.7x5.74x3.53

11-P81051 0.71 H SI2 AGS $2,164 61.9 56 ID ID None 5.68x5.71x3.53


Round Ideal:

Shape Round AGS Ideal Cut @ 2082$
Carat 0.77
Color J
Clarity SI2
Measurements (mm) 5.88-5.91 x 3.64
Table % 55
Depth % 61.7
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle TMF
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence ---

Shape Round GIA Ideal Cut @ 1987$
Carat 0.74
Color I
Clarity SI2
Measurements (mm) 5.84-5.88 x 3.58
Table % 56
Depth % 61.1
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Excellent
Girdle TMF
Culet None
Fluorescence ---

 

[Mara]

There are 'markers' in the diamond industry which some people believe to carry a heftier incremental price jump. These markers may be something like .50c, .75c, 1c (a huge marker), 1.25c, 1.50c (another big one), 1.75, 2c (another big one).

So the idea is that because most of the uneducated public does not know better, they go into a store saying, I want a 1c stone. They will not feel happy with a .90 or a .95. They want that 1c marker. So the B&M's and retailers tend to charge a little bit more for more popular carat weight markers because they know they can and they are what the mainstream public wants. Usually is that a .95c stone will appear the same to the naked eye as a 1c stone (if the cuts are equal), and will be cheaper.

I dont know that I have really strongly seen this proved online but it definitely holds water if you are talking about offline IMO. Online the prices tend seem to break some B&M rules, first off by the low profit margin that the etailers are operating on, and also in that they tend to not hold as tightly to the carat marker rule. There HAVE been instances where I have seen online 1.5c stones in particular command as much as $1-2k more when all other parameters *seem to be* very similar. Being that all diamonds are different, there are no two alike, it tends to be more difficult to compare stones to each other...and therefore compare pricing as apples to apples. But in general...if one is considering trying to reach a mental marker (e.g. as needaring is saying he wants at least .75c...) then they may be charged a little bit more for it.

It also bears noting that alot of times stones that are EXACTLY .75 or 1c or 1.5c may not have been cut in the most optimal way to return light to the viewer as sometimes cutters will fudge the girdle or the culet or similar in order to give that stone the extra .02c it may need to reach an important pricing marker. For example if a stone was cut to great excellent standards but would only weigh .98c, the seller would lose out on the profits gained by reaching the 1c marker. So they may leave a bit more of a girdle or a slight culet in order to gain those extra .02c and reach the 1c price mark. Any stone that is EXACTLY a marker ctw....I would examine doubly carefully, just in case.

 

[needaring]

Thanks for the info. Any thoughts on this stone below? I saw it online at dirtcheapdiamonds.com for about $1600. Is it a keeper or should I keep looking. Not in a big rush. Anyone think I can find a better stone, either princess ot round for the price?

Advice please!

Thanks again.

 

[needaring]

Measurements got cut off:

5.14 x 5.02 x 3.66

 

[Mara]

This one sounds interesting! Did you compare it to the AGA chart? Hopefully someone will respond on their thoughts..I don't know much about princesses.

 

[Spyder]

How about this I VS2 0.67ct, Measurements: 5.68 X 5.70 X 3.46 mm for $1,559.76. Check out its brilliance scope reading which is quite impressive!

Goodoldgold has some stones at a similar pricepoint listed in its inventory as well, especially if you purchase at the no frills price (can ordinary folk buy at that price or do you have to be some kind of licensed broker?).

btw., do any vendors beside superbcert and goodoldgold post bscope readings on their sites?

 

[needaring]

Thoughts anyone?

 

[slmulkey]

Ok, I don't know squat about princess cuts, but I checked out the cut charts, and its a class 2a, International fine trade cut. I like your choice of clarity and color, the "I" color should be fine, I think that is a better choice than going with an "H" SI2 stone, especially since you can't see it before you buy it. I would be concerned that the inclusions would be visible to the naked eye. Of course if you could find an "H", SI1 stone within your budget, that would be even better

Regarding which shape to choose, that's an easy choice, go with what your girl wants. I prefer rounds, but I know some people that think they are boring and would not be happy with one.

Good luck to you. I can certainly relate as I was a "budget buyer" as well.