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princess cut specs

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liz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
100
I'd love to get some opinions on these specs. All are listed by online vendors:

.82
G
VS2
72% Depth
73% Table
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Good
No Culet
Girdle Slightly Thick to Thick
No Fluorescence
5.15 x 5.04 x 3.65
$2,647



.81
F
SI1
71% Depth
76% Table
Polish Good
Symmetry Good
No Culet
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick
No Fluorescence
5.34 x 5.09 x 3.62
$2,835


.77
F
VS2
72.2% Depth
73% Table
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Good
No Culet
Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick
No Fluorescence
5.15 x 5.00 x 3.61
$2,494

I should also mention that these are all GIA certified stones.

One more question: Is a princess cut labled as a "Rectangular Modified Brilliant" generally less valuable than a "Square Modified Brilliant," and if so, why?

I very much appreciate your input!
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
Liz....

There is NO CHART of set of proportions that accurately and predictably work for fancy cut shaped diamonds.

The truth is that THEY MUST BEEN SEEN.....

I have seen stones with supposedly good numbers and AGA 1a's be dead, and seen some far lower a grade be very nice.

Relying on the numbers (proportions) and expecting a particular result is risky...... in percentages the numbers are only 30% relaible.

In addition, you don't have the pavilion depth,crown height or crown angle, which is useful information but not the "end all" to analyzing a fancy shape properly.

Most princess cut diamonds are cut to retain carat weight.... which of course benefits the cutter here. Few cutters are willing to polish a stone to be smaller but more beautiful.

As far as the rectangle vs. the sqare... yes there is some value differences... The rectangle is just a stone that the cutter chose to not make square, therefore getting more weight from the rough stone. Some of these are still pretty stones..... but the square ones return light better...

Think of it this way... the uniformity of the equal length to width parameters of a round stone, make it possible to get 4 equal quadrants refracting light similarly. In a rectangle you only have 2 equal parts..at the long end the light refracts differently, usually resulting in a less lively stone.

You should check the independent experts, ask them about how they make their determinations of quality in such stones, the lab equipment they have to support their conclusions, their educational background in GEMOLOGY and VALUATION , as well as being totally independent of buying selling or doing work for dealers.

Hope this helps..

Rockdoc
 

liz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
100
Thanks for the great feedback. Now I wonder--when shopping for a princess cut, is it safer to buy from a B&M store so you can actually see the stone? What can one expect from online vendors in terms of cut quality? I've done a fair amount of research and have found that online vendors have BY FAR the best prices. I've compared diamonds with virtually the same specs both online and in local stores and have found the local stores' prices to be at least 20-30% more. Of course, this is to be expected, but is viewing the stone with your own eyes worth the extra $$$ (not to mention the sales tax)? And how about online vendors that offer pre-purchase appraisals? I know of one such online vendor that offers this service--Dirt Cheap Diamonds. Are there any others out there that I don't know about?
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
liz;

We are another one; giving you a 10-day examination period
for our SuperbCert Princess Cuts with return privileges. Alternatively you can have it sent to an independent appraiser of your choice or in your area where you
can see it.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

DiamondOptics

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Messages
380
Hi Liz,


Although, it is true that online vendor
prices are more favourable.

I must disagree with one point. I do not
feel that it is appropriate for sellers
of diamonds to also provide pre-purchase
appraisals.

Appraisals, should be done exclusively by
independent entities. A diamond, and a
diamond appraisal from the same source
can promote bias, and should be accepted from
the consumer with a grain of salt.


Buy Informed!
 

liz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
100
Kirk,

The vendor whose diamond I am considering allows the customer to have the stone appraised by an independent appraiser of his or her choice, and the vendor will arrange for shipping. This way you can see the stone prior to purchasing it. Better than purchasing it, having it appraised, and then returning it if you're not happy.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
There are many online vendors who offer this policy liz. We however try to save our clients alot of money in appraisal fees and time, not by offering a pre-appraisal policy (that's an easy policy to offer and we give our clients 30 days for a refund and lifetime for exchange and buyback) but by personally inspecting the diamond with the finest tools available on the market for doing so. For example you could literally have an appraiser inspect 5 stones, pay for appraisals on 5 stones and ALL of them be duds. Before you even find a stone you'll be happy with you can find yourself having stone after stone after stone shipped to an appraiser when we (or a retail store offering services comparable to ours) weed out the best from the worst stones thus saving you both time and money in the long run. Otherwise you may get lucky on the first shot and the stone you have sent be a real winner.

My .02c

Rhino
 

Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
When vendors such as yours Rhino, or Kirk, say they will send a diamond to an independant appraiser for inspection, prior to purchase, does that mean any appraiser, or just select appraisers or those off of pricescope's list?

Would you be willing to send it to two appraisers? Say the first one to Dave or Bill for a complete appraisal, then the second to a local appraiser so I can go visit and view the diamond myself?

Just wondering, of course I realize that may be redundant given the return policies!
 

liz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
100
Rook, by "complete appraisal" do you mean a Sarin report? And I assume you mean Dave Atlas, but who is Bill? Your question is a good one, and I'd like to know for myself...
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Liz,

Have you found posted replies helpful? Have you sensed any pressure from the vendors or appraiser?

I’m trying to figure out whether consumers feel comfortable.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,394
Unlike Rock DOc, I have not seen one princess cut with a 1A cut grade that was dead or not very pretty. I'd like to see a failed 1A cut stone.

I do advise not buying blindly by the numbers, but the 1A princess cuts I have seen all were cut by cutters who know how to produce viable results and not failures. That is where the best value and beauty reside, but a cutter who knows his stuff, needs to do the cutting.

Maybe RockDoc saw some cutter's experimental stone. No one would purposely cut a commercial stone in an ugly or dull manner. (Unless they were just attempting to discredit the AGA Cut Class grades) That would be just so much foolishness as when used by a good cutter, the results are always very fine.
 

Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
"Rook, by "complete appraisal" do you mean a Sarin report? And I assume you mean Dave Atlas, but who is Bill? Your question is a good one, and I'd like to know for myself..."


No a complete appraisal entails a great deal more than a sarin report, but a sarin is usually a part of it. Look at some independant appraisers websites, you can find them on Pricescope,s appraisers page. Appraisers such as Dave Atlas (oldminer), Bill Lieberum (rockdoc) and Richard Sherwood, all here on pricescope, as well as many others thata are probably in your area, will inspect the stone for its quality.

The appraiser, amoung other things, will verify that it is what it is claimed to be by the GIA report or the vendor. IE. that it is indeed a G color or si1 clarity and it is the stone described by the GIA.

Appriasers will also give you an insurance "appraisal" value that you can use to get insurance on the ring if you so choose.

Go to some of there websites. They list what they will do for you and give some prices. You can always go to a local person too.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
----------------
On 12/16/2002 12:29:59 AM

When vendors such as yours Rhino, or Kirk, say they will send a diamond to an independant appraiser for inspection, prior to purchase, does that mean any appraiser, or just select appraisers or those off of pricescope's list?

Would you be willing to send it to two appraisers? Say the first one to Dave or Bill for a complete appraisal, then the second to a local appraiser so I can go visit and view the diamond myself?

Just wondering, of course I realize that may be redundant given the return policies!
----------------


Hi Rook,

In answer to your question ...

We prefer to send to credentialed appraisers like those off the pricescope list. As long as you are covering the shipping we will send it to as many appraisers as you like. With the sale of a diamond we include 1 shipping fully insured and by FedEx priority overnight. You could in effect have me ship a stone to Bill or Dave, then as long as it lives up to what we are presenting have them in turn ship it to your local appraiser. We do not however give permission for the first appraiser to release a stone until the diamond has been paid for but after that we do have our refund/exchange/tradein/buyback policies in effect.

Liz, let me also state that among internet vendors Jim at DirtCheap is a great guy and has an excellent track record for satisfying clients (based on customer testimonials). DO NOT let any vendor here dissuade you from doing business with him. We all have our ways of helping clients which is unique and Jim is no exception. His pre-appraisal policy is a very good idea and it's good that he does offer that. When doing biz with him it is best to take advantage of that policy.

Peace,
Rhino
 

divergrrl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
2,224
liz,

I hate b&m stores because for the most part they have overhead that shows in your diamond. check out http://www.tradeshop.com They are in Portland Or (where we live) but do business all over the net. They GUARANTEE everything. If you don't like the stone, you send it back, no muss no fuss. Ray, the owner also does fab custom work.

while his site is neither slick nor pretty, once you begin navigating (not an easy task) you can peruse his Client Previews (an excellent showcase of his hand engraved work) and his hundreds of letters of thanks from previous customers. These guys are really wonderful. Check it out.

ciao!
 
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