Pricescope Presidential Poll

[jenwill]

Date: 10/30/2004 11

5:36 PM
Author: Momoftwo
This whole thing started because I said just because a First Lady didnt'' have a ''CAREER'' outside the home didn''t mean she couldnt'' identify with anyone else. But since, as far as I know, Teresa Heinz Kerry has never had a paying job she was way out of line with what she said as well as not being able to identify with 99.9% of the world. She''s been independently weatlhy her whole life.

I feel if you are going to get on the high horse over THK saying that she couldn''t remember if LB had had a paying job, then it is silly of you to use the same brush to put down THK. She did work after finishing graduate school in Switzerland- she worked as a translator for the Trusteeship Council of the UN. Before that, while growing up in Mozambique, she went out with her physician father on his weekend clinics to help the underprivileged who were not able to get into town for care. Having money does not make her less of a person. After she was married she was a stay at home mom until being widowed. Then she became Chairperson of the charitable arm of the Heinz foundation- and from all appearances was an active chairperson.

And if independent wealth is a negative factor- then BOTH people running for president fit into that category. The Bush and Kerry families have had some serious money (and Power with capital P for the Bush family) for awhile.

F&I- since pithy means concise, I will take your comment as a compliment. I said that basically because I felt that Mof2 was determined to ''know'' how things were in my corner of the world by stating that demographics bear out salary differences to make up for housing price differences.

When studies are done on affordabillity indices, they measure according to cost of a ''standard'' house and percentage of area salaries. My area consistently comes in the top 5 of least affordable. Usually indicating that 40% or more of the median salary for my area is needed to pay for that housing.

My company pays a 15% differential to those of us who work in the SF Bay area- this doesn not come ven close to compensating for the differential in housing costs. It is one of the biggest reasons that companies have a hard time convincing employees to move here from another area. I have co-workers who live elsewhere int he country, and they will not move here due to the fact that they could not afford a house in any way smilar to what they have elsewhere. Also, many of those co-workers have a stay at home parent- and they know (and the company informs them of the difficulty of) that it would be next to impossible to maintain that here.

If you care to look at this article on CNN.com http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/30/real_estate/buying_selling/compare_homeprices/

You may note that the city I live in, Palo Alto, ranks #4 on highest cost for an average 4br/2.5 bath 2200sq ft house at $1,212,000. They used that as just a comparison size house for what middle-management corporate transferees could expect. The national average for the same house is $354,372. So, my 15% differential to other comparable positions in my company doesn''t even come close. I cannot even buy a 700sq ft house that is 80 years old. Those sell for 800k.

So, I apologize for my dismissive ''whatever'', that really is not how I normally approach conversations, but I seriously felt that I was being told by Mof2 that I did not understand what the financial state of my area was.

 

[Momoftwo]

First off, Laura Bush was born into a middle class family and worked to support herself before she met her husband. She wasn''t born into money and yet she is many times over a classy lady compared to Teresa. And that''s not just one person''s opinion. That has been commented on in many newspaper articles and on the tv news and I''ve heard it from a lot of people I know and not just Bush supporters. You realize you don''t seen much of her. My comments were directly tied into what she has said on camera.

Second, I never said I knew exactly about your area, but I also know people who live in the area yo do and it''s all about supply and demand and I live in Northern VA and it''s not cheap to live here either, but we didn''t have to buy a house immediately upon getting married. We didn''t expect it and we bought when we could what we could on one salary so I could be home with our kids. You buy what you can afford and a lot of people buy a lot more than they can realistically afford because they think they deserve it or are entitled to it or have to have what their friends have. I''ve seen a lot of people become so in debt just to buy what they think they "need" instead of what they can comfortably afford at the time. Housing prices are what they are due to market demands. It''s what the market will bear. So, would you prefer that housing prices drop so younger people can afford to buy a single family house right out of the gate and ruin other people''s life savings since most older people have their whole life savings or a lot of it tied up in their homes. It''s the way the market works. You turned something about real estate and choices into something personal.

No one has to move anywhere they can''t afford to live. That is a choice too. The tech industry made the SF area, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, etc. what it is economically. It created a lot of millionaires and then the "industry" or whatever the tech stocks were, failed. It was a high risk idea to begin with. But, that''s what drove the prices there through the roof.

 

[Nicrez]

Not to fuel flames, but I live in a suburb of NYC (ok, so it''s in NJ!) and I have to say that as much as I can feel bad about Jenwill''s predicament, I have to say that here in my town, anything with a 2br (APARTMENTS, not townhouses!) is actually over the $600K mark easily. Now you start talking townhouses here and you are easily looking at the $1M. EASILY. Barebones.

Want to know something? Anything close to a center of business where money can be made ALWAYS has higher prices...try living near or IN NYC! When I first moved around here, it was to get a better salary in NYC, since I lived near a place where the salaries where much lower. Live near NYC, pay more... BUT I got paid more to work in the city. Cities tend to pay more than average places. I know this also, because in my former career, I had two job offers in CA. One in LA, and the other in San Fran. Both were comparable salaries to my NYC job. Rent and all that remained the same almost, actually a bit cheaper.

Want to know something scarier? I lived on MY OWN in NYC with a salary of $28K when I first moved there as a young young girl.... I have no idea how, but I went out and I went shopping. I made do, pretty darn well. Years later when my salary was twice that, and I lived in a cheaper suburb (with my sister), I found it hard to live... I did have a better wardrobe and my "material goods" where far nicer, and even rent was cheaper, but it seemed HARDER...

Mo2 has a point that you can make do with what you have, until you start buying into the whole material wealth thing. It''s even more difficult to do that in centers of commerce though, like NYC or SF... it''s almost necessary to keep up with the Joneses here.

I lived in PA for a while, and trust me, I had a boyfriend whose parents had a tiny farm house, and both together, with their two boys lived on their father''s pension money. No big bucks there! But you know what? He had an old car he fixed himself, the kids had jobs at 16, and somehow they turned out to be quite polite, intelligent scholarship winners, and amazing people, and they weren''t even skinny! I remember being the one with a better job back then and paying for our nights out when he had just bought school books...

My brother also used to make HALF my salary, with his wife a part-time student, also making like $15K a year. They owned a house by 26, and he STILL has more equity than me. He''s quite bright, entreprenurial and KNOWS how to buckle down and save. Although they will both not likely be wealthy, i think their kids will really want for nothing...

BUT, he has a lot less diamonds than me, so I guess we are even....(yeah, like I have a lot!!

)

 

[Rank Amateur]

63% Bush to 33% Kerry?

I''m surprised.

 

[jenwill]

Date: 11/1/2004 6:31:18 AM
Author: Momoftwo
No one has to move anywhere they can''t afford to live. That is a choice too. The tech industry made the SF area, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, etc. what it is economically. It created a lot of millionaires and then the ''industry'' or whatever the tech stocks were, failed. It was a high risk idea to begin with. But, that''s what drove the prices there through the roof.

Well, I guess if you can say that at age 3 I chose to live here you are correct. Also, when we moved here, it was mostly orchards- not a booming tech industry. Maybe that is what I have a hard time wiht...those that grew up here and do not have yahoo/google options really have to struggle to live here.

 

[oddporcupine]

Date: 10/31/2004 10:15:55 PM
Author: ClownFishFunk

Date: 10/30/2004 11

5:36 PM
Author: Momoftwo

BTW, what does Happy really mean? People leave marriage because they''re not ''happy''. That is also a really selfish move.

So are you saying that people should stay in a miserable marriage just because it would be selfish to consider a divorce? You talk a lot about being selfish vs. selfless, and seem to think that everyone should be completely selfless - and hey that is great if you have managed to live your life that way and have no regrets - but what about doing something for yourself? If I were to spend years and years in an unhappy marriage, I owe it to myself to make myself happier and leave that marriage. Of course, some people give up too soon and without effort, but this is not the case for everybody. You also talk about being selfless and staying home with your kids, but I think a stable balance can be made between a working life and spending enough time with your children, if working is something you really love to do (assuming you have enough finances to make such a decision). If a person loves to work, why not let them? Why must they have to spend every moment with their child? People are selfish, and every now and then, why shouldn''t they be? Don''t get me wrong, its great to want to spend time with your children, but its not necessarily bad to want a few hours away.

Well said ClownFishFunk! I completely agree with you. I think it makes sense to have healthy balances in your life. Its never healthy to be all about one thing. A person needs to take care of themselves in order to be able to take care of others. Besides, what really is wrong with wanting everything anyway? Isnt that the American dream? Thats why so many people come to our country. Its human nature and it is realisticly possible to achieve that. It is possible to both own a lexus and be a good mom. One doesnt negate the other. I agree that you shouldnt sacrifice your children in order to gain for yourself but just because you own great things and live in large houses doesnt mean your kids are doing without. Anyway, Im with you CFF, lets go shopping together sometime and spend our parents hard earned money!

 

[jenwill]

Date: 11/1/2004 7:36:38 AM
Author: Nicrez



Mo2 has a point that you can make do with what you have, until you start buying into the whole material wealth thing. It''s even more difficult to do that in centers of commerce though, like NYC or SF... it''s almost necessary to keep up with the Joneses here.

I lived in PA for a while, and trust me, I had a boyfriend whose parents had a tiny farm house, and both together, with their two boys lived on their father''s pension money. No big bucks there! But you know what? He had an old car he fixed himself, the kids had jobs at 16, and somehow they turned out to be quite polite, intelligent scholarship winners, and amazing people, and they weren''t even skinny! I remember being the one with a better job back then and paying for our nights out when he had just bought school books...

BUT, he has a lot less diamonds than me, so I guess we are even....(yeah, like I have a lot!!

)

This just addresses what I said above. A family that had obviously lived here for awhile (small farm house- I would guess they had owned it for awhile if they were able to get by on only his small pension), had to struggle to get by.

No, I don''t want housing prices to go down so that old people are gypped out of their investment, and I would be that the old farm house noted above would have netted the family a pretty penny if they sold.

Well, I also think you could say that I probably have better material goods now than ten years ago. I now actually have furniture- all of it from second hand stores and Cost Plus. It is definitely more comfortable than the kitchen chairs that I sat on when entertaining friends. And the milk crate book shelves/TV stand/dining table are gone. I did buy a TV recently from Costco to replace the one that I had had for 15 years before that.

And I do not have ANY diamonds.

So, I do not think I am living extravagantly or beyond my means. I have zero debt- of any kind. And I contribute the maximum to my 401k. I also put money into savings from every paycheck. But as fast as I save, it in no way keeps up with the rate of home cost inflation here.

 

[oddporcupine]

I was kidding about spending our parents money by the way.

 

[jenwill]

Date: 11/1/2004 12:22

8 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
63% Bush to 33% Kerry?

I''m surprised.

I hope not.

Well, Kerry got 100% of the vote that I placed.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 11/1/2004 2

1:12 PM
Author: jenwill

Date: 11/1/2004 12:22

8 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
63% Bush to 33% Kerry?

I''m surprised.

I hope not.

Well, Kerry got 100% of the vote that I placed.

Could be all of R/A''s alternate personalities.

He not only registers. He also votes!

But, I''ve been saying it. I think there are a lot of silent Bush voters a la Goldengirl. We don''t have much time until we know how or if it''s close.

But, do VOTE.

BTW, hubby''s grandfather was an offical with the Elections Board. I mentioned that I don''t remember elections to be like the current situation. He laughed a hearty laugh & relayed that on election day, his G''father carried a gun from rougher precints to precints (keep in mind the man *never* carried a gun). Also, he would have the state troopers drive him to the localities. So, the more things change; the more they remain the same.

 

[Nicrez]

if you are undecided here is a good way to see which way you lean:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5993610/?GT1=5100&&

Also, Jenwill, his parents DID NOT own that house, they had a mortgage on it that took YEARS to pay off, but when the father died the mom had to go to work, and sold the remaining equity on that house. Sad story, but basically she did with what she had to raise her boys while they were under that roof, and I can tell you that a guy raised without a silver spoon in his mouth has a certain upbringing where economy and conservation of funds is important. Valentines days where not about fancy dinners, Tiffany''s jewelery and Coach bags, but a homecooked picnic by the lake, a personally written song, and a bouquet of flowers made petal by petal entirely out of construction paper...try a dozen!

my point is that I learned that honestly, money is just something that is needed to stay alive and generally get along, but things above and beyond that really ARE luxuries. A good family home can be made with a single income, low as it may be. In our society that is becoming more and more material and ego-centric, we THINk that we can''t survive without a car, or without a TV or cable connection... In the end, if we don''t have it and we don''t die, it''s probably NOT needed...

I will be the first to admit however that I will work to make the most money I can comfprtably, because I want to make my life as "easy" as possible, but if I had to give up every penny I would ever make for a good and wholesome family, I will. I plan on working from home (possibly in my own business) when I am pregnant and starting a family, but that''s not for the money as much as it is for my mental accuity and natural tendancy to be totally un-homecentric. But I will not have a full-time job when i have children waiting at home for a parent.

I applaud Laura Bush for her character, whether she ran a muti-million dollar corp or not, and I hate to concur but one can get a fairly good view of people from even the slightest reactions and comments, and I am no fan of THK... don''t even get me started on Hillary....

 

[Nicrez]

This darned election will have me half asleep tomorrow monring! It''s worse than the World Series....

Interesting exit poll stats:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5297138/

 

[chris-uk04]

Date: 11/3/2004 12:24:11 AM
Author: Nicrez
This darned election will have me half asleep tomorrow monring! It''s worse than the World Series....

Interesting exit poll stats:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5297138/

Well it''s just after midnight CST and I''m off to bed. I think Bush is headed to another term. All diehard liberals now please keep pledge to move to France.

 

[jenwill]

Date: 11/3/2004 1:11:26 AM
Author: chris-uk04

Date: 11/3/2004 12:24:11 AM
Author: Nicrez
This darned election will have me half asleep tomorrow monring! It''s worse than the World Series....

Interesting exit poll stats:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5297138/

Well it''s just after midnight CST and I''m off to bed. I think Bush is headed to another term. All diehard liberals now please keep pledge to move to France.

If it ends up the way you hope, I won''t move to France. I will stay here so that I may have the pleasure of saying I told you so when our economy continues to falter, our international standing continues to decline and completely to the right conservatives are appointed to judicial seats around the country.

Let''s just hope that this time the president who pledged last time to be a compassionate conservative, to unify the country, and to keep our improved relations with the rest of the world at a high level, can actually work towards those goals. Instead of what he has accomplished so far...being unwilling to accept those who do not have the same sexual and religious views as he does, a country still as divided- but even more polarized, and a standing in the international community that now has fallen to such levels that we are generally viewed as big bullies.

I can only take solace in the fact that he is limited to only being around for 4 more years. Perhaps now that he may actually do something that his father was not able to do (no not win a war, but get elected a second time), he can focus on actually working for the country.

Best to all,

A dedicated non-france living liberal

 

[jenwill]

I am glad that the economy in your region is so much better....but in many parts of the US it is not.

Isolationism is well and good, until you need friends.

You didn''t say how you felt about the country being even more divided than it was 4 years ago.


For those of you that felt it wasn''t even going to be close (and there were many of you), what are you thoughts now? Now that it has been shown that basically 50% (+/- 3%) of the country disagrees with the other side, how are we going to pull it together? Or do we even attempt?

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/3/2004 7:48:35 AM
Author: Feydakin

Not caring what others think about us does not equal isolationism.. It means we should do what''s best for us.
...
I just think we should quit worrying what other people think about us when we make decisions.

I am not part of the "us" and the "we" you mention. Yesterday proved to me that I feel no kinship with most Americans. If the state in which I grew up could secede from the United States, I would advocate that. I do not want to be in a country that is both dominated by people who can support Bush and from whom my state is "indivisible". I do not hate the Christian fundamentalists who are his core any more than I hate Islamic fundamentalists. I just feel no commonality with either group and I do not want to be a "fellow American" of the latter group.

I''m not going anywhere because I cannot for practical reasons. I am a third generation American whose maternal grandmother and mother were both born in Connecticut, the state in which I spent my entire life. My father, uncles, and great uncle served the United States during wartime. I have every right to remain here. I know, now, that I do not "fit in", however.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 11/3/2004 7:48:35 AM
Author: Feydakin
I used to live in the Bay area of Cali doing tech work.. Now I''m in the midwest designing jewelry.. Before that I was in the Southwest doing other things.. There is always work available for those willing to relocate and have some measure of ability to be trained.. But, the sector of our economy that is improving dramatically is manufacturing.. The area that so many people say is dead..

Not caring what others think about us does not equal isolationism.. It means we should do what''s best for us.. I''m all for trade all over the world.. And believe it or not, I''m for an open border between the US and Mexico and Canada.. A completely open border, not what we have now.. I just think we should quit worrying what other people think about us when we make decisions.. I don''t worry about it in my personal actions, so why should our nation??

BTW, look at that stock market go!!!!

Steve - 4 hours of sleep and off to work --

I could not be more on the same page with you as I am now.

AGBF, I am sorry you feel the way you feel. And, I''m disappointed. You sound like sour grapes. Our leader is our leader. He has been elected w/ the populace vote. While I may not agree with the all the admins policy, I will respect that he his my President. I''ve said this before - having lived many places in this world *here* is where I want to be. We enjoy a very high standard of life. I don''t think the U.S. is headed to hell in a handbag.

The economy is how one makes it. You lose your job. You retrain yourself. Like Steve, I have enjoyed *many* different carrers. I don''t have a myoptic scope. Hubby is the same. He survived being a developer in the savings & loan debacle - albeit very scathed.

The man who really f-ed up is John Edwards. Not only a liablity to the Kerry campaign. He gave up his SENATE seat to a republican. You want *this* type of man in office? He so screwed his own party.

I fell asleep about 11:30. I woke up at 3

0 & turned the T.V. on & watched for about 1/2 hour. I''m running on interupted sleep!

And, F&I''s crystal ball really thinks it''s *highly* unlikely that Roe v Wade will even be debated. It has been on the books so long. Historically, Justices don''t like to mess with stuff like that. Not to mention, it''s actually a reversal of an unconstitutional "law" in the 1800''s. Not that I am for partial birth abortions, but the Supreme Court has shot down two attempts at law in VA. I do think that at least one Justice will be replaced. And, I''d love it if Sandra Day O''Connor (my hero!) is appointed Chief Justice. We shall see.


Just F&I''s view from the her part of the world.

 

[chris-uk04]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 358px">Date: 11/3/2004 8

3:43 AM
Author: AGBF

Date: 11/3/2004 7:48:35 AM
Author: Feydakin

Not caring what others think about us does not equal isolationism.. It means we should do what''s best for us.
...
I just think we should quit worrying what other people think about us when we make decisions.

I am not part of the ''us'' and the ''we'' you mention. Yesterday proved to me that I feel no kinship with most Americans. If the state in which I grew up could secede from the United States, I would advocate that. I do not want to be in a country that is both dominated by people who can support Bush and from whom my state is ''indivisible''. I do not hate the Christian fundamentalists who are his core any more than I hate Islamic fundamentalists. I just feel no commonality with either group and I do not want to be a ''fellow American'' of the latter group.

I''m not going anywhere because I cannot for practical reasons. I am a third generation American whose maternal grandmother and mother were both born in Connecticut, the state in which I spent my entire life. My father, uncles, and great uncle served the United States during wartime. I have every right to remain here. I know, now, that I do not ''fit in'', however.

Well it is quite obvious you feel no kinship with most Americans. You dislike Christian fundamentalits the same amount as Islamic Fundamentalists. Christian fundamentalits at their worst tell you that drinking is bad or you shouldn''t kill fetuses or gambling is bad. Islamic fundamentalists chop heads off of innocent civilians, bomb civilian buses, and fly planes into buildings. I''m far from being a card carrying member of the Christian coalition, but how on Earth can you equate the two groups?

Btw, the "move to France" comment is from Alec Baldwin who in 2000 pledged to move to France if Bush won, but never did.

With a 130,000 vote lead in Ohio, I think Kerry shoud just concede for the health of the nation.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/3/2004 8:52:25 AM
Author: chris-uk04


You dislike Christian fundamentalits the same amount as Islamic Fundamentalists. Christian fundamentalits at their worst tell you that drinking is bad or you shouldn''t kill fetuses or gambling is bad. Islamic fundamentalists chop heads off of innocent civilians, bomb civilian buses, and fly planes into buildings. I''m far from being a card carrying member of the Christian coalition, but how on Earth can you equate the two groups?

I didn''t equate them. I said I felt the same way about them, not that they were the same.
Your problem is that you are dumb.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/3/2004 8:50:58 AM
Author: fire&ice


AGBF, I am sorry you feel the way you feel. And, I''m disappointed. You sound like sour grapes. Our leader is our leader. He has been elected w/ the populace vote.

Don''t feel sorry, F&I. Every thinking person feels as I do. If it is "sour grapes" to be bitterly disappointed in people you once thought were good, your fellow Americans, then it is sour grapes.

He is NOT my leader and I will NEVER support him. I am also not a terrorsist nor do I break the law, so my lack of support for him will in no way harm him or your right to have him as YOUR leader.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 11/3/2004 9:27:26 AM
Author: AGBF

Date: 11/3/2004 8:52:25 AM
Author: chris-uk04


You dislike Christian fundamentalits the same amount as Islamic Fundamentalists. Christian fundamentalits at their worst tell you that drinking is bad or you shouldn''t kill fetuses or gambling is bad. Islamic fundamentalists chop heads off of innocent civilians, bomb civilian buses, and fly planes into buildings. I''m far from being a card carrying member of the Christian coalition, but how on Earth can you equate the two groups?

I didn''t equate them. I said I felt the same way about them, not that they were the same.
Your problem is that you are dumb.

O.K. AGBF has certifiable gone over the edge.

I think you should move to DC proper. I think something like 90% voted for Kerry, which is so ironic because my wealthy liberal friends who live there state they enjoy a better standard of living when a Republican is in office.

 

[AGBF]

te:[/b] 11/3/2004 9:34:33 AM
Author: fire&ice

O.K. AGBF has certifiable gone over the edge.

[/quote]

You are right. I have. And I apologize to you and Chris. I really have gone over the edge.

Deb

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 11/3/2004 9:33:16 AM
Author: AGBF

Date: 11/3/2004 8:50:58 AM
Author: fire&ice


AGBF, I am sorry you feel the way you feel. And, I''m disappointed. You sound like sour grapes. Our leader is our leader. He has been elected w/ the populace vote.

Don''t feel sorry, F&I. Every thinking person feels as I do. If it is ''sour grapes'' to be bitterly disappointed in people you once thought were good, your fellow Americans, then it is sour grapes.

He is NOT my leader and I will NEVER support him. I am also not a terrorsist nor do I break the law, so my lack of support for him will in no way harm him or your right to have him as YOUR leader.

Every thinking person doesn''t feel as you do. In fact, quite the opposite. I don''t see things your way. I''m a pretty informed voter w/ many insider views. I didn''t vote to please you; nor, does your "disappointment" in me matter. So, I was once good yesterday? May I ask what changed in me as a person in 12 hours? In the end, this undecided voted for G.W. I''m a firm believer in mandates. And, that''s what it came down to in my state. That said, I voted against the mandate in our House race.

At the end of the day, we do not live in a dictatorship. G.W. isn''t the only game in that town. We survived quite nicely Carter, after Carter w/ Reagan, etc. And, Alec Baldwin never did move to France.

 

[AGBF]

F&I and Steve,

I would love to fight with you some more. I could take apart your arguments and wait for you to take apart mine with your next postings. But I won't. I apologized above and that is that. I am living in a new state apart from friends and family and I suspect the alienation I have been feeling about the election is actually related more to my livng circumstances than to the election.

Deb

 

[fire&ice]

Personally, this election has made me very proud of our process.. Very little civil disruption, and an amazing turn out at the polls.. No matter who wins, this is a good thing for our country..

Steve

Hey, I told you!

We do have a great process. And, I think it is always a credit as to how easy our transfer of power really is.

Yeah, I''m with you on the petulant. I think AGBF needs to take a deep breath.

I also want to add (once again) my frustration with Kerry picking of a running mate. That really became clear & the reason for my swinging to G.W. Kerry choose the breck boy over anyone with substance. In the end, he proved to be a liability & I''m proud that people saw through the pretty face. Not only did Edwards *not* carry his *own* State, he carried *no* Southern states.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 11/3/2004 10:41:58 AM
Author: AGBF
F&I and Steve,

I am living in a new state apart from friends and family and I suspect the alienation I have been feeling about the election is actually related more to my livng circumstances than to the election.

Deb

That would be a resounding, yes. It''s culture shock. I was serious about moving to DC proper. Out in the burbs of DC - well, your not in Kansas anymore Dorthoty. My advice is too embrace the difference. Also, venture out of your little world to the world of Academia (lots of Universities) & the museums (well you know there are lots of those). You will feel more akin to them. If you have time, they are always looking for volunteers. I feel for you - moving away from your family & friends of so many years.

 

[AGBF]

/2004 11:12

0 AM
Author: fire&ice

That would be a resounding, yes. It's culture shock. I was serious about moving to DC proper. Out in the burbs of DC - well, your not in Kansas anymore Dorthoty. My advice is too embrace the difference. Also, venture out of your little world to the world of Academia (lots of Universities) & the museums (well you know there are lots of those). You will feel more akin to them. If you have time, they are always looking for volunteers. I feel for you - moving away from your family & friends of so many years.

I have a 12 year-old and a huge dog, so I suspect I am better off where I am than in The District. You are sweet, however, and I may very well take your other advice.

Deb

 

[goldengirl]

Date: 10/25/2004 11:39:23 PM
Author: windowshopper
WELL YOU ARE NOT HONEST. YOU ARE MAKING BIASED AND SLANTED COMMENTS BASED ON YOUR OPINION AND YOUR JUDGMENTS. YOU THINK KERRY IS ABLE AND INTELLIGENT BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH HIM. I THINK KERRY IS A POLITICAL WHORE AND MAJOR LEAGUE HYPOCRITIC. BUSH HAS HIS MYRIAD FAULTS. I CAN''T ABIDE PEOPLE WHOSE ARGUMENTS CONSIST OF THE FACT THAT ONE CANDIDATE IS STUPID AND ONE NOT, OR ONE IS HONEST AND ONE NOT B/C THE PERSON IN QUESTION AGREES WITH THAT PARTICULAR CANDIDATES POLITICAL AGENDA. ...........NEITHER OF THEM IS MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN A BOX OF ROCKS FOR VARIOUS REASONS...............

LOL@ the last sentence. I agree. I''d like to have an election where I vote for a candidate because I believe they are a good candidate, not because I believe they are the lesser of two evils.

 

[goldengirl]

To all who commented on my rather quiet voice:

I apologize for not being a more active participant in the conversation, but the truth is I''m still very young, inexperienced and unknowledgable about politics and the parts of history in question. I take pride in my ability to hold an intelligent conversation but I feel pathetically outgunned by the group here; thus I held my tongue and tried to learn, instead.

I do agree that there were probably many that felt as I did, even in my age group which was supposed to be one of the coups for Kerry.

I have spent the last few weeks in intensive study of the candidates and wrestling with my own thoughts on the matter. I agree with the person that said in times of war, one does not have the luxury of voting based on morals. I agree that we need strong leadership right now, and I do feel that most people would be uncomfortable with such a large change in times such as these.

America has spoken, and Bush remains our President for the next four years. Still I am uneasy about my decision, and I pray nothing happens in the next four years to make me regret it. Nonetheless, I will rally and support my President, because I think he needs all the support he can get and because I think he will work hard for a country that stands behind him.

In the words of my favorite TV show, "America is our team, and if you don''t want to root for the team, get the hell out of the stadium."

God bless the US.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 11/3/2004 4:58:45 PM
Author: goldengirl


In the words of my favorite TV show, ''America is our team, and if you don''t want to root for the team, get the hell out of the stadium.''

Dear goldengirl,

A quiet voice is a wonderful thing. You have nothing to apologize for. On the contrary, you didn''t inflict any silliness on us as others (myself included) have done as we work things out loudly and in the open.

That said, let me comment on the phrase above.

I cannot "get out of the stadium" nor can many others-some of whom are victims of the US, like Iraqi civilians. Somehow I just don''t think if I shout, "Stop the world; I want to get off!" that it is going to stop its revolution around the sun. The United States, as the sole remaining superpower, can reach anywhere. The whole world is its "stadium", if you will.

Deborah