shape
carat
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Pre-proposal DSS

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Hi everyone!

I ordered a ring from James Allen that is scheduled to arrive this Tuesday. It is a 0.56 G VS2 AGS ideal cut stone in this setting:
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/james-allen-exclusive-engagement-ring-item-49647

Here's a link to the diamond: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...arat-g-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-550629

I think I've now re-looked at every picture in the "Under 1 ct diamonds" thread over in Show Me The Bling, and I'm now considering moving up to something closer to 0.7 carats. I know I'll have to see it in person next week to finalize my decision, but I'd like to plan ahead so I don't have to delay the proposal too much.

For the new diamond, I'd like to keep the color at H or better, ideal cut, 0.65 carat or higher, and eye clean. Budget for the stone is around $2250.

I found one stone on JA that seems worth considering:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...arat-h-color-si2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-584753

Do you guys think this will be an eye clean stone? The JA consultant told me it would be subjective, but that it looks good to him. Are there any durability concerns given the feathers near the girdle? Am I being too strict with my criteria? It's in NY so it's available for idealscope imaging.

I'm open to all suggestions. Thank you.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,734
I would not buy that diamond because it scores over 2.0 on the HCA.





There is an easy bullet-proof 2-step way to buy a round diamond with superb cut and therefore light performance.
1. HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
2. Idealscope: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Plug these four numbers, from the lab report, into the HCA, depth %, table %, crown and pavilion angles in degrees.
Reject rounds scoring over 2.0 on the HCA.
Get an Idealscope image on those scoring under 2.0.
Post the IS image here for feedback or compare it to this chart.

http://ideal-scope.com/reference-chart-ideal-scope-images/



The reason the HCA is good enough to reject diamonds but not make the final selection is two of the numbers it uses are AVERAGES of 8 numbers each, the crown and pavilion angles.
It's possible that some angles are too high, and others too low, but they average out to an ideal (but misleading) angle.
(... as they say, "Garbage In, Garbage Out.)
The Idealscope pic, since it is a photograph, would reveal such wonkiness.

screen_shot_2015-11-21_at_9.png

screen_shot_2015-11-21_at_8.png

idealscope_4.png
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Oh wow, thank you kenny. I completely forgot about the HCA tool once I selected an ideal cut stone.

The search continues!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,734
dell23|1448126639|3952491 said:
Oh wow, thank you kenny. I completely forgot about the HCA tool once I selected an ideal cut stone.

The search continues!

Yea, unfortunately AGS 0 Ideal includes a couple dogs ... not as many as GIA's top cut grade, Excellent, but still.
Mind you, these are still way better-cut than the average junk most people see at the mall.
But personally, I'm going to use every cut tool available and only buy a round that does VERY well by every tool.
I worked hard for my money and IMO a fantastic light show is what diamonds are all about.
"Good enough" is not good enough if I know there's better out there. ;-)

There's a poster or two here who says, "You don't use HCA or IS for AGS 0 stone".
I wish they'd stop!
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Here's another diamond I found in my price range when I added in I colored diamonds:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...arat-i-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-550430

Depth: 61.2
Table 54.2
Crown angle: 34.7
Pavilion angle: 40.5
HCA: 0.5

I looked at an I colored diamond earlier today at Costco, and to me it looked plenty white. The pave stones in the band I've selected, however, range from F-G. Do you think there would be too much contrast?

Also, I don't know how to interpret the inclusions. Is a cavity something to be scared of?

Thank you!!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,734
Body color is impossible to judge under Costco lighting.
There is just to much fire and sparkle.
The rows of LEDs in the top edges of Costco's cases could make a lump of coal sparkle.
Even if you had them take it out of the case the top view will still be have tons of fire and sparkle that overpowers the body-color under Costco's overhead lighting.

Body color is most noticeable when looking into the side of the diamond under soft diffuse directionless lighting such as mid day outside under a fully overcast sky.

Also considering all the policies and cut tool data I'd rather buy from a good PS vendor like whiteflash goodoldgold, or jamesallen.
Costco does not provide IS pics or have an upgrade policy.

I'd rather have diamond cavities than feathers.
YMMV.
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Ah, sorry for not explaining it well. I'm definitely going to purchase from James Allen; I was just at Costco for groceries and stopped at the jewelry stand. I asked them to take a couple rings out so I could see a 0.5 vs 0.7 again. They were both I color so I took the opportunity to examine it as much as possible to get a sense of the color.

The diamond I linked above is the actual one I'm considering purchasing now, but I wanted to check in and see if an I color is worth considering in the setting I chose.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,734
dell23|1448137635|3952538 said:
The diamond I linked above is the actual one I'm considering purchasing now, but I wanted to check in and see if an I color is worth considering in the setting I chose.

Hard to say.
Some people are more sensitive to body color than others ... both when it comes to seeing it and separately caring about it if they see it.
Even with an I main stone next to F/G melee some may notice the difference, others not.

Next even if someone notices the difference some will be bothered by it, others not.

Lower color gets you a larger diamond.
That's SUPER important to LOTS of people.

Nobody is wrong.
You have to find your own comfort zone of compromize on the 4 Cs.

Even if 62% prefer one compromise you may be in the other 38%.
Unfortunately we have posters here to say things like 'Oh, you don't need an F diamond' ... as if people did not vary and everyone is just like them. :roll:
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Thank you, kenny, that was very nicely put. Maybe I'll just have to order it (after the Idealscope, of course) and get some real-world experience with an I colored stone! :)
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,734
If you have the cash, or the credit limit, order 2 or 3 diamonds with different specs you're curious about.
Spend a few days comparing them, at your leisure, in various environments under many kinds of lighting.

Keep your fav and return the rest.
It'll cost you for shipping/insurance but may be a very low-cost education.
I did this and recommend it.
Vendors may not like it, but they could also consider it may result in a sale they otherwise may not have gotten.

If you time it right you might even get the refund during the same credit card billing cycle so you'd pay zero interest to use their money.
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
20
kenny|1448139191|3952552 said:
If you have the cash, or the credit limit, order 2 or 3 diamonds with different specs you're curious about.
Spend a few days comparing them, at your leisure, in various environments under many kinds of lighting.

Keep your fav and return the rest.
It'll cost you for shipping/insurance but may be a very low-cost education.
I did this and recommend it.
Vendors may not like it, but they could also consider it may result in a sale they otherwise may not have gotten.

If you time it right you might even get the refund during the same credit card billing cycle so you'd pay zero interest to use their money.

I wholeheartedly agree with this if you can swing it. You can look at all the numbers, photos, videos, ASET images etc that you want, but there's no substitute for eyes-on experience under a variety of lighting conditions.

Case in point I have been looking seemingly endlessly for a Princess cut for my forthcoming proposal. I did exactly what Kenny suggested and ended up with two candidates in hand. One was an AGS Color I / Clarity VVS1 that scored 1 (excellent) for light performance and 0 (ideal) for polish and symmetry with a 1.02 L/W ratio. The numbers looked good, the simulated ASET looked great, and I was certain that it would end up being my final choice. The other was a GIA Color I / Clarity IF with excellent polish and symmetry, 1.0 L/W ratio, but depth and table percentages that weren't what would necessarily be considered absolutely ideal (70.5% and 72.0% respectively).

It was literally no contest. While the AGS stone wasn't exactly a dog, it was a little dead whether in bright sunlight, a dimly lit room, under spotlights, under fluorescents etc. The GIA stone was on fire under all kinds of lighting conditions and put the other one to shame. Six people saw both stones, every one of them pointed straight to the GIA stone as being by far the better performer with no hesitation.

Point being that while HCA numbers, ASET images, IS images, photos, videos, grading certificates and so forth can help to narrow the search down, your eyes will always be the final arbiter of a diamond's real life performance. If you can do it, do it.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,734
Showing them to others is an excellent idea! :appl:
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Dec 17, 2008
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24,614
dell23|1448138502|3952544 said:
Thank you, kenny, that was very nicely put. Maybe I'll just have to order it (after the Idealscope, of course) and get some real-world experience with an I colored stone! :)

I would request idealscope images on that initial H you posted and the I. To be honest, I'm not liking the look of the "I". It's got
a lot of contrast in it.

Here is another stone you can check on...check on eye-clean
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-629890
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Thank you for the suggestions, everyone! My plan now is to wait until Tuesday, make my final decision on the size, and then contact JA if I want a bigger stone. I've reached my limit of 3 Idealscopes, but hopefully they'll let me get these diamonds checked.
 

pearaffair

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
3,275
Is JA still giving deals to PS users? Also, is the setting going to be yellow gold? Can someone chime in about how that will affect the diamond colour choice?
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
pearaffair|1448158752|3952637 said:
Is JA still giving deals to PS users? Also, is the setting going to be yellow gold? Can someone chime in about how that will affect the diamond colour choice?
They do still give the deal, but the new member discount ($100) saved me more money on my purchase so I went with that.

The ring will be yellow gold with a white gold head. I'd also love to hear about how that could/would/should affect color choice!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,957
kenny|1448127004|3952493 said:
dell23|1448126639|3952491 said:
Oh wow, thank you kenny. I completely forgot about the HCA tool once I selected an ideal cut stone.

The search continues!

Yea, unfortunately AGS 0 Ideal includes a couple dogs ... not as many as GIA's top cut grade, Excellent, but still.
Mind you, these are still way better-cut than the average junk most people see at the mall.
But personally, I'm going to use every cut tool available and only buy a round that does VERY well by every tool.
I worked hard for my money and IMO a fantastic light show is what diamonds are all about.
"Good enough" is not good enough if I know there's better out there. ;-)

There's a poster or two here who says, "You don't use HCA or IS for AGS 0 stone".
I wish they'd stop!

I say it, but I say you have to have a real ASET or idealscope image for any diamond. I also use search parameters that would have eliminated that stone before even needing to plug into the HCA.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41)

Dell, there is nothing wrong with GIA graded stones, and they can be stricter on color grading than AGS. So use the parameters above and the HCA. I would stick with H VS2.
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Thanks so much for the guidance, everyone. I'll continue with my search!
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
I picked up the ring last night and I absolutely love it. The size of the 0.56 carat diamond is just right for how I envisioned the ring looking. And oh man, I can't believe how incredibly amazingly awesomely beautiful the diamond is!

I couldn't wait any longer, so I proposed! And she said yes! And she loves it!

I'll get some pictures soon and post them. Thank you so much everyone. I love this forum.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,957
Oh, wow! That is fabulous!!! I love that you went ahead and proposed! These guys who buy a ring and hold it for a few months for some occasion, I wonder about! Congratulations and enjoy this holiday season being engaged!!! :appl:

Oh, and show us some pictures of the ring, too!
 

Speedie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2015
Messages
20
Congratulations to both of you! Wishing you a future filled with love, happiness, prosperity, and good health.

Can't wait to see pics :naughty:
 

dell23

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
20
Here are some pictures I've snapped over the last couple of days. I'll get some better ones with my better camera once we're home from our trip and post them in Show Me The Bling! My fiancee asks that you pardon the nail polish malfunction in the first two shots :)





I painted her nails for the 3rd shot :dance:

img_9953.jpg

img_9956.jpg

img_9957.jpg
 
Q

Queenie60

Guest
Congratulations. You have given her a beautiful ring. Enjoy your new life together - I wish you all of the best as marriage is a wonderful adventure! :clap:
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,585
It is PERFECT on her hand! :love: :love: :appl: :appl: and I love how excited you were about proposing as soon as you had ring in hand, and how you painted her nails! That is too cute!!!
 
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