JustEngaged1983
Rough_Rock
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Possibly ripped off and freaking out :(
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Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Amethyste
Ideal_Rock
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I TOTALLY ditto that comment. RD has been VERY curteous with everyone - when in return a lot of posters are just rude with snide comments and show total lack of tact.
Sometimes, the tone of certain threads are pretty harsh, and keeps me from contributing, cause I do this for "fun": No thanks, I don''t need to get my head ripped off in return!
Amethyste
Ideal_Rock
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By the way, this post is totally NON educated observation...
If I remember correctly, my pear, does not have ideal proportions, there is some leakage in it, she was cut slightly too deep. I KNOW all of that and Ultimately, I don''t give a carp about what this or that says... What matters to me is what my eyes see. I see gorgeousness every time I look at it. I see this imperfect beauty as almost perfect in itself. Nothing is ever perfect in this world and my pear is the reflection of what is "is". How much one pays for something it really a personal affair. My husband wouldn''t have paid more than $10 for my pear and what I paid for it, to me, was a great deal. Don''t let all of these numbers, certs, tests or what have you determining the sentimental value of your diamond. 100 years back then, sophisticated tests etc were not available to the consumers to grade/rate a contender. Everyone relied on they eyes, and their own knowledge of "what is pleasing" to your own self. I still try to look at all of my pieces that exact way.
And I am really a happy camper!!!
If I remember correctly, my pear, does not have ideal proportions, there is some leakage in it, she was cut slightly too deep. I KNOW all of that and Ultimately, I don''t give a carp about what this or that says... What matters to me is what my eyes see. I see gorgeousness every time I look at it. I see this imperfect beauty as almost perfect in itself. Nothing is ever perfect in this world and my pear is the reflection of what is "is". How much one pays for something it really a personal affair. My husband wouldn''t have paid more than $10 for my pear and what I paid for it, to me, was a great deal. Don''t let all of these numbers, certs, tests or what have you determining the sentimental value of your diamond. 100 years back then, sophisticated tests etc were not available to the consumers to grade/rate a contender. Everyone relied on they eyes, and their own knowledge of "what is pleasing" to your own self. I still try to look at all of my pieces that exact way.
And I am really a happy camper!!! 
stone-cold11
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Amethyste
Ideal_Rock
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Stone-Cold -
I was not targeting you only directly, but to several people on this thread, by reading all of the replies, one can sense who they might be... I guess I have seen a lot of threads in PS over the years that when 2 opinion clashes, the conversation takes a different turn and a lot of the times, respectful and tactful replies tend to slip. I am faced every day with people and situations that to me, it''s clear as day, as for others, its thick as mud. It''s all in how someone communicates their thoughts.
Take this post with a grain of salt... I am not saying anything mean, just a reflection of what I have noticed. Nothing more.
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
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Thanks Cara your messages are quite clear and you are not alone in sharing your very patient and well supported and explained opinion.
Just so that it crystal clear to RD and everyonelse so that this doesn't have to come up again, here is an example of a stone with a similar steep pavillion as the OP's stone it is is a GIA excellent and shows leakage in EVERY image and it was taken from John Pollard's article. I have highlighted with red arrows two prominant areas of leakage in each image.
The first two are plain photographs which RD prefers, the other images are taken using filters like ASET and Idealscope that many Pricescopers like myself prefer for highlighting areas of leakage.
I feel quite strongly this question about showing images of leakage in plain photographs in a GIA EX stone should NEVER be asked again by anyone participating in this thread otherwise it shows an extreme disrespect for pricescope and the hard work people put in here to help others understand and educate.
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
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To The OP
1) I hope that you take HVVS''s advice and just see for yourself how an AGS 000 ideal HA stone would look as compared to yours. This could be done by bringing your diamond to Jareds to look at and compare with their peerless collection. It is important when making this comparison to do so in various lighting, under a table, by the window etc. Many consumers before you have made this comparison and the Price/Value choice that follows then becomes an educated personal preference.
2) There is little doubt to me that your stone will show some leakage. You could confirm this by taking an idealscope image, or put a red piece of paper or cloth under your diamond, leakage will then be seen as red areas.
3) Many experienced posters have said you were not ripped off and your diamond was fairly priced. This does not mean that there are not better valued stones in your budget to be found on the internet or through PS vendors but as far as shopping at a B&M store your deal was likely quite fair.
I hope that no argument or crticism removes your appreciation for your diamond, our job is to educate and give you the tools helpful for meaningful comparisons between diamonds, ultimately the purchasing decision is yours as is your perception and ranking of beauty and Price/Value tradeoffs.
Good-Luck,
CCL
1) I hope that you take HVVS''s advice and just see for yourself how an AGS 000 ideal HA stone would look as compared to yours. This could be done by bringing your diamond to Jareds to look at and compare with their peerless collection. It is important when making this comparison to do so in various lighting, under a table, by the window etc. Many consumers before you have made this comparison and the Price/Value choice that follows then becomes an educated personal preference.
2) There is little doubt to me that your stone will show some leakage. You could confirm this by taking an idealscope image, or put a red piece of paper or cloth under your diamond, leakage will then be seen as red areas.
3) Many experienced posters have said you were not ripped off and your diamond was fairly priced. This does not mean that there are not better valued stones in your budget to be found on the internet or through PS vendors but as far as shopping at a B&M store your deal was likely quite fair.
I hope that no argument or crticism removes your appreciation for your diamond, our job is to educate and give you the tools helpful for meaningful comparisons between diamonds, ultimately the purchasing decision is yours as is your perception and ranking of beauty and Price/Value tradeoffs.
Good-Luck,
CCL
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The online comp. price on a similar diamond is under $15k, GIA EX can be had for $15.1k and one is under $14.8k but it is a fluke.Date: 4/7/2010 9:44:30 PM
Author: marym
Date: 4/7/2010 9:24:46 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
marym...i don''t recall a single poster stated she over paid for this stone.
Actually DF, Karl stated that she kinda got a bad deal. A lot of the other posters were basically saying she should return or trade in her diamond simply on the basis that it did not get a great score on the HCA. I feel that you totally missed the point of my post.
Is 2k+ a reasonable b&m premium? I said not really, some say it is only a little over 10% so yes it is reasonable.
We ended up agreeing to disagree.
Not a total ripoff but a highish price for a GIA VG
marym
Shiny_Rock
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Targeting you Stone-cold? No, of course not. But since you asked me directly, I will say that I think your posts can come off as rather harsh and condescending, particularly when it comes to Rockdiamond. I''m all for people sharing different viewpoints, but when posts become mean/insulting the discussion just isn''t productive anymore. It does make others afraid to participate. I for one have been wanting to participate in more of these threads, but I see how quickly they tend to turn ugly, so I move on. It''s really too bad, and there are definitely others who feel the same way. From now on I will stick to admiring rings on Show me the bling. Much nicer atmosphere there.
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Here''s what I find frustrating StoneCold.
Yesterday I suggested burying the hatchet, and moving on.
Then after that you expressed frustration that I don''t know how to calculate.
Let''s keep this simple- simple enough that the eight graders using geometry will also understand.
GEOMETRY HAD NO PLACE IN THIS CONVERSATION. YOU WERE NOT ABLE TO DETERMINE DOODLY SQUATT WITH YOUR GEOMETRY.
Lindsey, sorry to repeat, but I''d really like Stone to understand that with the information we had, implying a "better cut stone will have a larger diameter" was irresponsible. Furthermore Stone, you have been proven, BY THE FACTS, to be totally incorrect.
So we can take the geometric equations and give them back to the 14 year olds.
Karl- again, all due respect, I LOVE the Octavia, kudos on the design.
Now that you''re posting as a trade member, isn''t it incumbent on you not to make causal statements outside your area of expertise, that might raise doubt in a consumer''s mind, given that you''re writing as an expert?
What''s your experience buying and selling two carat diamonds?
Bottom line here is that you are simply incorrect. We buy diamonds from some of the world''s largest cutters- some of whom supply the lists featured on internet web sites. The price of $17,100 is likely among the lowest prices a consumer will find at a retail jeweler. I''m not guessing- I have priced stones over the past few days.
Of course Lindsey can check this aspect when she shops around- but I have strong feeling she won''t see a lot of similar stones for that price.
Mary, I could never blame you for ducking out- but it''s important to me that you understand you made a HUGE difference yesterday. Thank you.
clgwli
Brilliant_Rock
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I like the way you think. I have a stone that I am sure would not be rated as ideal but I love it all the same. I have three sets of earrings that I know I have said one set that is ideal cut, one set is pretty darn close to ideal (not 100% sure since I didn''t buy them) and my last set that are just VG. I wanted the VG with the way they looked on my ears. My ideals are fine, but I wasn''t keen on how ideals looked at a larger size.Date: 4/7/2010 10:16:08 PM
Author: elle_chris
You know, prior to getting my e-ring stone, I purchased ideal cuts for my pendant and my 5 stone ring. when the time came to get my new my e-ring stone, I didn''t. The stone is a GIA, does not have a perfect idealscope, and has a 34crown, 41 pavilion. I''ve read here that my pavilion angle causes color entrapment. my crown is low for an ideal cut, but you know what, it performs just as well as my perfect ideal h&a''s. the stone is beautiful and no less sparkly because it''s not perfect.
Like Farleysmom said (welcome to pricescope by the way), if you loved the diamond before plugging the numbers into the hca, there''s no reason you shouldn''t love it now. grats on your ring, relax and enjoy your new sparkly
I have spent a lot of time looking and trying to learn more here and I think my conclusion is that the HCA is great when you cannot see a stone in person. And that if you have a stone you love, just make sure that you are not paying more than what others would pay for that particular set of 4Cs.
This forum is great, but honestly beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And believe it or not, not everyone really likes an ideal cut stone in some shapes. I think that sometimes people forget that kind of thing when helping others, especially in a situation like this. Most said that the OP wasn''t ripped off yet people are stepping outside the original post and suggesting they return the fair priced stone for a "better one".
I''m more new compared to some, but there are some here that really seem to snub their noses at anything other than AGS0. Some people are also really quick to jump down certain posters for not agreeing with them and that is highly bothersome to me as it is not veyr helpful to many.
That''s a ramble but to the OP I am glad you found a stone you love! Wear it in good health
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HI CCL- If anything, this thread proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that warnings about leakage MUST be accompanied by photos letting people know what to look for- in EVERY case. But especially when PS members are giving advice ( warnings) about leakage on stones they have not seen.
AS Lindsey is still in the position to be led astray, and loose sleep over leakage, let''s discuss the example you took from John''s article.
1) how large, in mm or square footage are the areas you point out as leakage?
2) would those areas show leakage if the stone was moved- even the slightest bit of an angle?
3) which stones in John''s article have ZERO leakage?
4) why does the ASET image show huge areas of black that don''t show any leakage at all in actual photos- OK- that is off topic, but it''s also true.
Please show PS the respect it deserves, and answer these quesitons.
JustEngaged1983
Rough_Rock
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Hello again everyone,
Despite all of the arguments now occurring on this board (I apologize if my topic started them) I am still following the thread. I appreciate the input that everyone has offered on me my diamond, good, bad, and indifferent. I am definitely happy I have found this web site, and when I buy my diamond earrings next month (yup, I''m buying more diamonds that soon after my engagement ring, diamonds are apparently addictive this will be my first stop for purchasing advice.
I have decided for now to keep my diamond. I no longer feel that I was ripped off, thanks in part to the words of most posters on this board. I supposed I shouldn''t have doubted my purchase in the first place (we spent a little over a month going to recommended jewelers, almost every jeweler in the jewelers building as well as searching around the suburbs) and this was the lowest B&M price we found for something this high in color at this size. I understand that we could have purchased something cheaper online, we did look at WF and BN, and at the end of the day we felt too uncomfortable purchasing over the internet. Could we have possibly saved a few Gs? Yes...but it just didn''t feel right to us. That HCA score just scared me quite badly and I almost wish I hadn''t used it at all. I''m sure I''m not the only person who has had this happen.
I also feel much better now about the previously unknown flaws in my stone. I can''t see them so why should I really care? I still wish I had seen them beforehand, but I''m fairly sure I still would have gone with my diamond. The SI1 clarity didn''t bother me as long as the stone was TOTALLY eye clean, which it is.
I tried to the red paper test and I still can''t see anything that looks like leakage. Then again, my diamond is already set so I''m sure part of the diamond is covered and wouldn''t show leakage regardless of whether there is some or not. Regardless, I definitely don''t see any and my diamond certainly looks sparkly in all lights (daylight, overhead lighting, etc) to me.
In terms of my spread, regardless of what it means for leakage or not, I''m glad to hear it wasn''t under the amount of what it should be. It''s a relief to hear that my diamond is not a complete dud
Thanks again,
Lindsey
Despite all of the arguments now occurring on this board (I apologize if my topic started them) I am still following the thread. I appreciate the input that everyone has offered on me my diamond, good, bad, and indifferent. I am definitely happy I have found this web site, and when I buy my diamond earrings next month (yup, I''m buying more diamonds that soon after my engagement ring, diamonds are apparently addictive
this will be my first stop for purchasing advice.I have decided for now to keep my diamond. I no longer feel that I was ripped off, thanks in part to the words of most posters on this board. I supposed I shouldn''t have doubted my purchase in the first place (we spent a little over a month going to recommended jewelers, almost every jeweler in the jewelers building as well as searching around the suburbs) and this was the lowest B&M price we found for something this high in color at this size. I understand that we could have purchased something cheaper online, we did look at WF and BN, and at the end of the day we felt too uncomfortable purchasing over the internet. Could we have possibly saved a few Gs? Yes...but it just didn''t feel right to us. That HCA score just scared me quite badly and I almost wish I hadn''t used it at all. I''m sure I''m not the only person who has had this happen.
I also feel much better now about the previously unknown flaws in my stone. I can''t see them so why should I really care? I still wish I had seen them beforehand, but I''m fairly sure I still would have gone with my diamond. The SI1 clarity didn''t bother me as long as the stone was TOTALLY eye clean, which it is.
I tried to the red paper test and I still can''t see anything that looks like leakage. Then again, my diamond is already set so I''m sure part of the diamond is covered and wouldn''t show leakage regardless of whether there is some or not. Regardless, I definitely don''t see any and my diamond certainly looks sparkly in all lights (daylight, overhead lighting, etc) to me.
In terms of my spread, regardless of what it means for leakage or not, I''m glad to hear it wasn''t under the amount of what it should be. It''s a relief to hear that my diamond is not a complete dud
Thanks again,
Lindsey
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Great news Lindsey!
The answers to the questions I raised in my last post apply to you, and how you think about leakage, seeing as how it''s been raised here.
1) the areas of "leakage" on the image that CCL posted are the size of a few hairs- I mean really tiny.
2) as soon as the diamond tilts at all, they won;t be "leakage" areas anymore. Instead, they''ll be reflecting light back at your eye- nice shiny stuff. Seeing as how the diamond will always be moving, that''s relevant
3) EVERY diamond in John''s article has some leakage. The best cut diamond in the world has some leakage.
So please put that aspect at rest in your mind. The spread refers to how large your diamond looks. You have no reason to have any worries there either- it spreads as well as many "triple EX" diamonds.
Please report back after you''ve done some shopping and comparing!
I apologize if I took the thread off topic.
The answers to the questions I raised in my last post apply to you, and how you think about leakage, seeing as how it''s been raised here.
1) the areas of "leakage" on the image that CCL posted are the size of a few hairs- I mean really tiny.
2) as soon as the diamond tilts at all, they won;t be "leakage" areas anymore. Instead, they''ll be reflecting light back at your eye- nice shiny stuff. Seeing as how the diamond will always be moving, that''s relevant
3) EVERY diamond in John''s article has some leakage. The best cut diamond in the world has some leakage.
So please put that aspect at rest in your mind. The spread refers to how large your diamond looks. You have no reason to have any worries there either- it spreads as well as many "triple EX" diamonds.
Please report back after you''ve done some shopping and comparing!
I apologize if I took the thread off topic.
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JustEngaged,
Figured I'd reassure you 4 pages into this thread, in the hopes that it might serve (in any measure) to add to what others have already written and to ease any residual anxiety on your part.
1. You were not ripped off.
2. You purchased a diamond at a fair price.
3. Clearly, It was important for you to see and touch the stone before you bought it. Perhaps there were also other factors that motivated you to buy from a B&M. You are no less vindicated for that, than anyone who might have turned to the Internet first.
4. You are the only one of us all who has actually s@@n (and paid for) the stone and you like it!
5. Nonwithstanding the value of any and all of the scientific and other metrics brought up in this thread, the fact is that you are not wearing a 'mathematical equation'. The people who will be looking at and enjoying your diamond ring (most importantly - you!), will not be admiring or scrutinizing a mathematical equation. In fact, once the ring is insured and on your finger, the GIA report and paperwork will be relegated to a drawer somewhere for a long time. The HCA is best used as a rejection tool and for those who do not actually see the stone before buying it. You saw the stone and not only did not 'reject it', you actually like it! It would be unfair to yourself to not trust your own eyes in favor of this formula.
6. Like with anything else, there are always multiple considerations and permutations when buying a diamond. Customers, like yourself will often make certain choices, exchanges and/or sacrifices based upon their individual priorities.
Relax and enjoy!
My two cents.
Figured I'd reassure you 4 pages into this thread, in the hopes that it might serve (in any measure) to add to what others have already written and to ease any residual anxiety on your part.
1. You were not ripped off.
2. You purchased a diamond at a fair price.
3. Clearly, It was important for you to see and touch the stone before you bought it. Perhaps there were also other factors that motivated you to buy from a B&M. You are no less vindicated for that, than anyone who might have turned to the Internet first.
4. You are the only one of us all who has actually s@@n (and paid for) the stone and you like it!
5. Nonwithstanding the value of any and all of the scientific and other metrics brought up in this thread, the fact is that you are not wearing a 'mathematical equation'. The people who will be looking at and enjoying your diamond ring (most importantly - you!), will not be admiring or scrutinizing a mathematical equation. In fact, once the ring is insured and on your finger, the GIA report and paperwork will be relegated to a drawer somewhere for a long time. The HCA is best used as a rejection tool and for those who do not actually see the stone before buying it. You saw the stone and not only did not 'reject it', you actually like it! It would be unfair to yourself to not trust your own eyes in favor of this formula.
6. Like with anything else, there are always multiple considerations and permutations when buying a diamond. Customers, like yourself will often make certain choices, exchanges and/or sacrifices based upon their individual priorities.
Relax and enjoy!
My two cents.
ChunkyCushionLover
Ideal_Rock
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Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings
Past, Present, Future: The Meaning of Three-Stone Engagement Rings - 04/14
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