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flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
I''m perhaps 2 days away from purchasing this diamond. I''m extremely concerned about the ''medium blue'' fluorescence, especially since it''s an E color diamond and I''ve heard that the value of such diamonds is much reduced.

According to its GIA Report:
Shape: ROUND BRILLIANT
Measurements: 7.09-7.12 X 4.41 mm
Weight: 1.36 carat
Depth: 62.1%
Table: 56%
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Clarity: VS2
Color: E
Fluorescence: Medium Blue

I haven''t seen the diamond, as it''s arriving in a day or so. Could anyone please advise whether this is worth considering? Would appreciate comments on any aspect of the diamond, particularly on the fluor, proportions and measurements.

Thank you!

N.
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Sorry, forgot to mention the price: it's about US$7,700.

Thanks in advance for your help!

N
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Thanks for the comment! I'm a bit worried about the blue too, and also about the quality of the polish. Do you think the blue would be a good basis for knocking the price down a bit, and if so, how much should I try to bring it down by?


How does a "good" rating affect the overall visual effect I would get from the diamond? Also, any comments on the price? Too high? Good deal? About there? Thanks!
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
-----------
I'm extremely concerned about the 'medium blue' fluorescence,
especially since it's an E color diamond and I've heard that the value
of such diamonds is much reduced.
-----------

No, this is incorrect. The discount for medium blue fluorescence on an "E" color stone is only 1 to 2%, if any.

Medium blue fluorescence will almost never have a negative influence on the appearance of an E color stone. The "oily look" that everybody talks usually only occurs with diamonds having "very strong" fluorescence, and rarely even then. There's a big difference in intensity between medium blue and very strong blue.

Medium blue fluorescence is going to be imperceptible to your eye in most every lighting condition. The one exception MIGHT be in strong daylight. The stone might have just a hint of that "blue white" appearance which was so highly prized in stones of old.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
-----------
Measurements: 7.09-7.12 X 4.41 mm
Weight: 1.36 carat
Depth: 62.1%
Table: 56%
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted
Culet: None
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Very Good
-----------

It's tough to "picture" the stone without the crown/pavilion height/angles, but everything shown looks good, with the possible exception of the depth. It depends on how the cutter handled it with crown/pavilion angle relationship.

With a 62.1% depth, the stone will appear 3% smaller than an "ideal" diameter, which is not that big a deal. The thing to watch out for is light leakage just inside the table, which sometimes occurs with stones of this depth. Sometimes, not always. If we had those crown/pavilion measurements we'd know for sure.

Alternatively, you'd know for sure if you had an IdealScope to view the stone. You might consider ordering one from the menu above. Without the IdealScope, what you would look for is darkness inside the table similar to the image attached. If you don't see that and the stone looks gorgeous, then you're okay. Or alternatively, if you see that and it doesn't bother you, then you're still okay. Thousands of people are wearing similarly proportioned diamonds and enjoying them immensely.

The price is very reasonable, and the difference between a "good" polish and a "very good or excellent" polish is imperceptible without 10x or better magnification.

1.36 js.jpg
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Thanks for all your helpful comments. Will try to get hold of the additional information. It's not in the copy of the GIA report that I have though - what should I do, just ask the shop?

Incidentally, I have ordered an idealscope and it will arrive in the mail in a couple of days. What should I look for when I view the diamond in the idealscope - just total darkness?



 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Ok, I rang the shop and they said that they don't have a Sarin report for the diamond, but that you can 'work out' the pavillion depth and crown height from the information in the GIA report (as listed in my first post).

Is this true?

If so, does anyone know how to work it out?
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Thanks CutNut!

Suspect I will ultimately have to rely on the Idealscope - just tried the tutorial and did the test. For the questions which require you to grade the diamond based on the Idealscope image, i.e. questions 6-12 (7 questions in total), I got 5 correct and 2 wrong.

But to be honest, it seems rather difficult to determine whether there is light leakage or not. Basically do I just hope there won't be too much white or pale pinks, or is it more complicated than that?

Incidentally, if the diamond does have a HCA of 2-4, as you predicted, does this mean it's not a good buy?
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Hmm...so if I want to do a HCA, I will need to get a Sarin report done. Why is it that the person selling me the diamond doesn't have the figures? Is it routine for all jewellers to have Sarin numbers to hand, or am I expecting too much? (This is a shop based in SE Asia, by the way).
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Are you located in the US? Why are you searching for a stone in
Asia???? I mean, if you have any problem with it, I bet you're going
to be stuck with your stone.......!!! That's why I would suggest you
to buy locally or on the internet from a company you can trust or
at least from a company that is not so far from you so you can drive
the distance if there's any problem...
Nothing will ever replace the warmer environment of a diamond dealer
office.....


Trichrome.
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Actually, I'm in Asia - where the diamond is. I've heard that you can get some pretty good deals on the internet in the US, but it is precisely for the reasons you cite that I'm a bit wary of going down that route...

Like you say, "nothing will ever replace the warmer environment of a diamond dealer office"!
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
someone from singapore just purchased a stone and posted a really good experience. Here's the thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/local-gg-has-confirmed-my-aca-diamond-is-real.4678/}

Buy from a reputable dealer and you shouldn't have any problems. It would take exactly 1 poster to ruin the reputation of the dealers that frequent and get a lot of business from these boards. Going with a superbcert stone myself, and I feel pretty good that they have such a good reputation on pricescope, and that I'm empowered to write a good or bad review of my experience with them. So far it's been outstanding, but I'll post a full review when I possess the stone.
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Hi everyone and thanks for all the comments. I went to see the stone about an hour ago, and I also found out a couple more details about it. The jeweller doesn't have a Sarin report, but she estimated the pavilion to be 44%, the girdle to be 3% and the crown to be 15.1%. I put these numbers through an HCA, and it came up with a very disappointing 4.3. Very worrying.

I have taken up the advice to buy an ideal scope, and I'm expecting it to come in by the end of the week, and I'm going to see the stone again on Saturday, ideal scope in hand! Pity about the HCA numbers, though... Sigh, it looks like such a nice stone!

Oh, the jeweller also demonstrated the fluorescence by showing us the stone under UV light, as compared with a stone without any fluorescence, and it was quite an enlightening experience for me (and for the stone too, no doubt!
) But I have arranged to take it out under the mid-day sun on Saturday, so that should be interesting. I guess at least I can be reassured that it is a real diamond, 'cos I hear only real diamonds fluoresce blue!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
You need to find out if the percentages are accurate, also angles are better... If someone estimes the percentage, usually there's a +/- 1% margin, if she hasn't used at least a table gauge, I don't know how she found out the 15.1%. Also, if you use HRD standards for girdle (it looks like your jeweler did), med to sl.thick is usually 3.5%-4.5%.
Although I don't love fluorescence, I must admit that's quite cool
!!!


Giangi
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
------------
she estimated the pavilion to be 44%, the girdle to
be 3% and the crown to be 15.1%. I put these
numbers through an HCA, and it came up with a very
disappointing 4.3. Very worrying.
------------

Hiya Flower. I ran a profile on DiamCalc, and her estimates line up perfectly with the other parameters of the stone.

I'm posting a simulated IdealScope image of the stone based on those numbers. Let us know how it matches up with your personal observation. The reason you're getting the low score on the HCA is because of that ring of light leakage right inside the table. That should appear as a dark(er) area when viewed with the naked eye. Did you notice it when you viewed the stone?

By the way, the DiamCalc estimates the crown angle as 34.44 and pavilion angle as 41.34. You might try running those figures through the HCA and see what you come up with.

Did you order the "calibration" cz with the IdealScope? It's helpful in showing you what to look for.

1.36 IS.jpg
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,274
Youch. Which answers the question of why you got a 1.3xct E VS2 at such a price.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
Hey Rhino, was it you that I remember using the term "ring of death"?

If so, was it referring to the ring of light leakage sometimes seen inside the table?

I got a kick out of that term....."ring of death". Heh heh heh...
 

flowerpower

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
65
Oh no! This is terrible news


I took great care to stare at the diamond when I inspected it to see whether there was indeed a dark ring inside the table and my untrained eye spotted nothing. I brought a friend along and she didn't see it either, so I was feeling a bit optimistic. Oh well. Will use the Idealscope this weekend (hopefully it arrives in the mail before then) anyway, but I'm sure the experts on the forum have accurately predicted that there will be a 'ring of death'.

Incidentally, about the HCA, I know only the best 5% of diamonds score 0-2, but how many diamonds score between 2 and 4? I think I can live with knowing that the diamond I eventually choose isn't in the top 95 percentile, but obviously would hate to find out that my diamond is plain ol' average or something like that. So some idea, however approximate, of the percentages would help loads.

Once again, thanks to everyone for all the useful information. Hope to hear from you soon!
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
If you find this diamond beautiful, then get it....!!!
If it's brillant then get it!!!!

Look, besides a couple of persons here, nobody out there in the
streets are cut freaks!!!!


For the average person, your diamond will look gorgeous!!!!

Maybe for the top gemmologist, it would look like a very good one!!!

Well, I'm pretty sure you can live with that!!

Maybe you're not buying a ferrari, but at least you're getting
a Mercedes...

Trichrome.
 
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