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PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confused

happilymarried

Rough_Rock
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I know many people on here are not big fans of tiffany and I know they have a very large mark up. My wife has always loved tiffany's, and we got our wedding rings there. I have been going back and forth with going with tiffany or whiteflash. I know for the same amount I can get bigger and possibly better at whiteflash. This will be a once in a lifetime surprise, so I am leaning toward tiffany since I know she has always loved the tiffany name and how it's a part of her favorite movies etc. etc.. Please, no need with replies on how buying at tiffany is an un-smart move. I have read plenty of those threads.

Anyhow, I have been in touch with a lady at Tiffany. I had asked for certificates of numerous diamonds around 1 ct., I color as I am happy with I color. She has been very nice and sent me numerous certificates. I have been running them through the HCA and will post the scores below. I also will try to attach the certificates here.

I did tell her that I was putting the numbers through an online HCA score and shared the link with her. She was nice and provided more certificates. She did reply with the following: "I spoke to the gemologist in our store and she noted that this website does not take into consideration the symmetry or polish of the diamond, both of which significantly affect the diamond’s overall presence. We take into consideration the combined effect of the precision of cut, symmetry and polish for a unique look that cannot be measured by percentages."

So I am really hoping at least a few of the experts here will be kind enough to spend a few spare minutes on me and help me out. I am willing to spend extra at Tiffany if I can get a diamond similar to one from whiteflash aca's. My questions are:

1-Is there any truth in Tiffany's reply, or is that just mumbo jumbo?

2-Are any of these diamonds going to be jaw-droppers?

3-Do any of these diamonds stand out as a clear winner? Or is there something else I should ask the lady to try and find?

4-How would these diamonds compare to Whiteflash's ACA's? Every ACA I run through the HCA gets 1 or below, with all excellent except spread.

Here are the tiffany choices:

1.01 triple ex: ------------HCA= 1.3. ---All excellent except spread which is very good

1.11ct. I VS1 triple ex.--------- HCA= 1.5 excellent light return; very good fire, scintallation and spread

1.00 ct. I VS2 triple excellent ------------------ HCA=2.6 all very good

1.04 I VS1 ex.cut with very good sym and polish----------HCA=1.6 ex light return and spread ; very good fire & scint

THANKS SO MUCH TO ANYONE WHO RESPONDS!
 

Attachments

marcy

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

IMO if your wife wants Tiffany that is what I'd buy for her. My laptop didn't want to open the pdf you attached but if you pick something that scores under 2.0 on the HCA tool I am sure it will be a very beautiful, lively diamond. Can you go in to Tiffany's and look at them? If you can that might be worth it to compare them side by side.
 

flyingpig

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

What Tiffany expert claims is very true. HCA alone is not sufficient. GIA/AGS/Tiffany grading report is important. Furthermore, ASET/IS images are helpful. It is important to use all tools available to you. In person visual inspection is also crucial. Numbers help ALOT and ACCURATELY, but dont tell the entire story.
WF provides all tools and excellent return policy.

Based on the numbers, those are pretty diamonds, though they are not WF ACA level. I am always impressed with the overall quality and consistency Tiffany brings. It is just their pricing that most have an issue with, which does not matter for someone who respects the brand and its heritage.
 

msop04

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

happilymarried|1456696015|3997084 said:
...I am willing to spend extra at Tiffany if I can get a diamond similar to one from whiteflash aca's.
I'm sure you can, for a price... but how would you know? To my knowledge, Tiffany doesn't offer any of the tools that most of the PS vendors do (ASET, Idealscope, etc...) Can you get the GIA or AGS cert for the stones you're interested in? I know Tiffany does their own grading, but I've heard some of their stones have GIA/AGS certificates as well. I'd hate to pay a "Tiffany price" and take the chance of not getting ACA-standards. ::)
 

canuk-gal

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

HI:

I love Tiffany and I love WF/ACA. :bigsmile: :wavey:

Of the "certs"/ones you've posted, I prefer the 1.11 ctw as I like smaller tables and I think all the others were 60/60's. Are you able to see these IRL?

For comparison, which ACA did you have in mind?

cheers--Sharon
 

MissGotRocks

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

I agree with Canuk on the 1.11 being the best of the ones considered. I think you are a gem for buying her exactly what she wants!
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

THANKYOU! for all the replies already.

Yes, I can have them bring in the diamonds to look at. They actually sent me about 8 certificates so far. These 4 scored the best on the HCA. I do know that Tiffany doesn't provide the images like other online vendors. That makes it quite a bit harder to me. I am really no expert on diamonds. Pretty much everything I've learned has been on this great site in the recent past.

I was in their store before Christmas, and looked at several diamonds. I liked the 1.01 I. That is the only diamond of this bunch that I saw. The other 3 that I listed I haven't seen. So, while it looked nice, that was really the only diamond in the range that I was looking for that they had. ALL the diamonds look lovely there with whatever magical lighting they do.

As far as I know, Tiffany only provides their own certificates like I attached. They are not GIA graded etc.

canukgal - I was looking before at diamonds around 1.4 I color at Whiteflash. I imagine this diamond would look better, but no tiffany name. I know that sounds foolish to many.

Does anyone have a general idea of how much difference these diamonds would be from whiteflash's ACA's? I mean, if you walked into a tiffany with a whiteflash ACA, would you see a "wow" difference that your diamond is that much better than Tiffany's? I can have them bring these diamonds in to the store to look at in person.

I wasn't sure if anyone had any experience with Tiffany, and had any idea if I would find one better than these if I requested more certificates. I could also wait a few months to see what new inventory shows up.
 

PintoBean

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Do you have a friend or family member (who can keep a secret :saint: ) that could have a hypothetical discussion with her, I.e., what would you do with your budget if you could get a 1 ct from Tiffanys versus a 1.4 from another vendor?
 

msop04

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

PintoBean|1456704081|3997130 said:
Do you have a friend or family member (who can keep a secret :saint: ) that could have a hypothetical discussion with her, I.e., what would you do with your budget if you could get a 1 ct from Tiffanys versus a 1.4 from another vendor?
This!!! She'll be choosing what she'd rather have and taking the stress off you! :bigsmile:

She may love Tiff's at the cost of a smaller stone (and maybe not as great a performer), but then again, she may say, "What the heck??!! The larger, better performer, of course!" ;))
 

canuk-gal

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

happilymarried|1456703608|3997128 said:
THANKYOU! for all the replies already.

Yes, I can have them bring in the diamonds to look at. They actually sent me about 8 certificates so far. These 4 scored the best on the HCA. I do know that Tiffany doesn't provide the images like other online vendors. That makes it quite a bit harder to me. I am really no expert on diamonds. Pretty much everything I've learned has been on this great site in the recent past.

I was in their store before Christmas, and looked at several diamonds. I liked the 1.01 I. That is the only diamond of this bunch that I saw. The other 3 that I listed I haven't seen. So, while it looked nice, that was really the only diamond in the range that I was looking for that they had. ALL the diamonds look lovely there with whatever magical lighting they do.

As far as I know, Tiffany only provides their own certificates like I attached. They are not GIA graded etc.

canukgal - I was looking before at diamonds around 1.4 I color at Whiteflash. I imagine this diamond would look better, but no tiffany name. I know that sounds foolish to many.

Does anyone have a general idea of how much difference these diamonds would be from whiteflash's ACA's? I mean, if you walked into a tiffany with a whiteflash ACA, would you see a "wow" difference that your diamond is that much better than Tiffany's? I can have them bring these diamonds in to the store to look at in person.

I wasn't sure if anyone had any experience with Tiffany, and had any idea if I would find one better than these if I requested more certificates. I could also wait a few months to see what new inventory shows up.
HIya:

If you specify your parameters to the sales people--they will accommodate you where they can; that said, any vendor will be limited by their stock. When I was buying a Tiffany DBTY pendant---I scrutinized a dozen certs! And I found exactly what I wanted. Incidentally, Cartier was also very accommodating and provide help with cut requests....it just takes time.

Moreover, you might open yourself up to H color at T & C and this may provide more options if you are looking for super tight cut (like the ACA).

I live in Canada--and I only know the Tiffany prices here..if memory serves, 1 ctw started around 20K...but I was looking at E or F color.

FWIW, your comments are neither foolish nor cavalier. As MGR says, you are very thoughtful to get her what she wants and are taking the time to do your homework. :appl: :)) :dance: And your user name says it all!! :lol:

Once again, Tiffany is a gorgeous brand. And ACA (WF) is a gorgeous brand. Lovely decisions!! :bigsmile:

cheers--Sharon
 

Snowdrop13

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Don't know if this helps at all but you can at least see the difference in size for the money!

_984.png
 

CareBear

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

happilymarried|1456703608|3997128 said:
Does anyone have a general idea of how much difference these diamonds would be from whiteflash's ACA's? I mean, if you walked into a tiffany with a whiteflash ACA, would you see a "wow" difference that your diamond is that much better than Tiffany's? I can have them bring these diamonds in to the store to look at in person.
WF ACAs are cut with more precision than most Tiffany diamonds, but in terms of overall performance, Tiffany diamonds will performance just fine. To me the "WOW" difference from a WF ACA would be the much bigger size ;))
 

gr8leo87

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Significantly? More than butchered angles? Mumbo jumbo.
 

Jimmianne

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

I know she wants Tiffany, but you are paying so much for the little stamp inside. To replace my Tiffany stone [inherited] at a non-Tiffany vendor is half what it would cost to buy at Tiffany and is not as well-cut as my WF ACA diamonds. In fact, I have thought about having it recut to ACA standards.
So, would she rather have top quality or a little blue box?
Amazing what marketing will do for a product.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

I will say that I like Tiffany and I wear a Tiffany Legacy wedding band. It was worth it to me to pay the mark-up on a wedding band. But I gotta tell you, I would buy none of the diamonds above. A WF diamond obviously will exceed any of those. I downloaded the first one because it had Ex for the first three items on the HCA and VG for spread, which is what I'd want in an ideal cut round. Then I see that it has a 60 table. ACA's aren't going to have a 60 table because their cut parameters are so much tighter than Tiffany's. All ACAs will have ideal polish and symmetry and all of those stones do not.

As a person who likes Tiffany, I got a Tiffany wedding band and a top cut quality diamond in a Tiffany repro setting. WF carries two of them, the Knife Edge solitaire or the Vatche U-113 in platinum. I would far rather have a 1.4 ct ACA in the Tiffany repro setting than a Tiffany diamond that was not even in ideal cut territory at 1 ct. And I believe if you handed her these two rings to look at and choose, that she would choose the WF ring, unless she just thought 1.4 cts was too large. But even then, I'd go to a smaller H color stone from WF because I know their diamonds are cut better than most Tiffany diamonds.

I have been in Tiffany before and they thought my solitaire was theirs. So the look is definitely possible and she still has a real Tiffany band. I like to buy Tiffany jewelry that is their own design and recognizable, such as Tiffany Keys, Atlas, Infinity, Victoria, etc. My classic diamond jewelry such as stud earrings and Diamonds by the Yard came from WF as I preferred the higher diamond quality at a lower price. I do own a few other types of Tiffany fine jewelry, some bought new and some second hand.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Just for future reference, it is pointless to mention the HCA or anything you have learned here to another jewelry store unless you just enjoy hearing the things they will make up. I would prefer giving them a set of parameters which will narrow down the selection very easily and then you can put them in the HCA and see if you can get 3 excellents and vg for spread. These are the measurements for an ACA and mostly what I use when helping people here who are trying to buy a well cut GIA Excellent cut stone with ideal proportions.

table: 53-58 (but you'll mostly see 55-58)

depth: 59.5-62.0 (you'll rarely see a less than 60 in an ACA, and I would allow up to 62.3)

crown angle: 34-35

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

PintoBean|1456704081|3997130 said:
Do you have a friend or family member (who can keep a secret :saint: ) that could have a hypothetical discussion with her, I.e., what would you do with your budget if you could get a 1 ct from Tiffanys versus a 1.4 from another vendor?
Unfortunately, I don't trust anyone enough to ask this haha! I would always be wondering if they slipped and told her! I am pretty much set on a tiffany though.
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Thanks again for all the replies. At this point, I am looking to buy the tiffany diamond. Below are the certificates, easier to view so you don't have to download them. I know a few people have responded that the 1.11 could be the best one. Does anyone else have thoughts on how these diamonds will perform?

I am 100% willing to buy a tiffany ring as it's still what I believe she will like the most. I just want to get a ring that is as nice as possible as this is a once in a lifetime surprise. I am hoping that I can find a diamond that will be similar to an ideal aca type. So, please let me know what I should do on my hunt for a great tiffany ring. Should I ask for more certificates that only fit the parameters diamondseeker posted above?

tiffany__amp__co.png

tiffany__amp__0.png

tiffany__amp__1.png

tiffany__amp__2.png
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

unfortunately I can't get the originally pdf files to post larger or clearer. They can be downloaded in the original post though. :doh:
 

PintoBean

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Just a thought - assuming that both WF and Tiffany's have good return policies, could you get both rings, let her choose one, and return the other ASAP?

God, that would blow my mind if that ever happened to me! The closest thing to this that happens in my life is when I ask my husband to pick up Ben and Jerry's, and he comes home with 3 pints instead of 1!
 

Laila619

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Hi!

Since you are going with Tiffany, please do what DS suggested. Look for the following measurements with whatever you pick.

Table: 53 to 58
Depth: 60 to 62.3
Crown angle: 34 to 35.5
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9, possibly 41 if the crown is 34. Excellent polish and symmetry is great to have, but the numbers are MUCH more important in terms of the cut quality and the light return.

Stick with those numbers and you will not buy a dud.
 

msop04

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

PintoBean|1456762448|3997335 said:
Just a thought - assuming that both WF and Tiffany's have good return policies, could you get both rings, let her choose one, and return the other ASAP?

God, that would blow my mind if that ever happened to me! The closest thing to this that happens in my life is when I ask my husband to pick up Ben and Jerry's, and he comes home with 3 pints instead of 1!
This is the best idea yet, OP. I would be willing to bet money she'd choose the larger, better cut ACA over the smaller diamond in the blue box. Don't tell her which is which, just ask her which one she likes better and would rather have. She can love Tiffany and still rather have a larger non-Tiff stone. Like DS said, you can always get a Tiffany band and a Vatche U-113 and it will be exactly the look she loves.

Tiffany does not always guarantee superior cut/quality diamonds... it does, however, guarantee an incredibly inflated price. ::)
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

Laila619|1456763983|3997341 said:
Hi!

Since you are going with Tiffany, please do what DS suggested. Look for the following measurements with whatever you pick.

Table: 53 to 58
Depth: 60 to 62.3
Crown angle: 34 to 35.5
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9, possibly 41 if the crown is 34. Excellent polish and symmetry is great to have, but the numbers are MUCH more important in terms of the cut quality and the light return.

Stick with those numbers and you will not buy a dud.
Ok, sounds great. When I asked for reports before, I asked for only stones with triple ex-cut, polish & sym. Can you educate me on how a diamond in the parameters above, having triple ex. would differ from the same stone, same parameters but having very good polish, or very good symmetry?
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

msop04|1456764223|3997346 said:
PintoBean|1456762448|3997335 said:
Just a thought - assuming that both WF and Tiffany's have good return policies, could you get both rings, let her choose one, and return the other ASAP?

God, that would blow my mind if that ever happened to me! The closest thing to this that happens in my life is when I ask my husband to pick up Ben and Jerry's, and he comes home with 3 pints instead of 1!
This is the best idea yet, OP. I would be willing to bet money she'd choose the larger, better cut ACA over the smaller diamond in the blue box. Don't tell her which is which, just ask her which one she likes better and would rather have. She can love Tiffany and still rather have a larger non-Tiff stone. Like DS said, you can always get a Tiffany band and a Vatche U-113 and it will be exactly the look she loves.

Tiffany does not always guarantee superior cut/quality diamonds... it does, however, guarantee an incredibly inflated price. ::)

GREAT idea, but I don't have the funds available for that haha.
 

msop04

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

happilymarried|1456764364|3997348 said:
msop04|1456764223|3997346 said:
PintoBean|1456762448|3997335 said:
Just a thought - assuming that both WF and Tiffany's have good return policies, could you get both rings, let her choose one, and return the other ASAP?

God, that would blow my mind if that ever happened to me! The closest thing to this that happens in my life is when I ask my husband to pick up Ben and Jerry's, and he comes home with 3 pints instead of 1!
This is the best idea yet, OP. I would be willing to bet money she'd choose the larger, better cut ACA over the smaller diamond in the blue box. Don't tell her which is which, just ask her which one she likes better and would rather have. She can love Tiffany and still rather have a larger non-Tiff stone. Like DS said, you can always get a Tiffany band and a Vatche U-113 and it will be exactly the look she loves.

Tiffany does not always guarantee superior cut/quality diamonds... it does, however, guarantee an incredibly inflated price. ::)

GREAT idea, but I don't have the funds available for that haha.
You could take your budget for Tiffany and buy her an ACA *AND* a Tiffany band! Win-Win!! HA! :bigsmile:
 

canuk-gal

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

happilymarried|1456764319|3997347 said:
Laila619|1456763983|3997341 said:
Hi!

Since you are going with Tiffany, please do what DS suggested. Look for the following measurements with whatever you pick.

Table: 53 to 58
Depth: 60 to 62.3
Crown angle: 34 to 35.5
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9, possibly 41 if the crown is 34. Excellent polish and symmetry is great to have, but the numbers are MUCH more important in terms of the cut quality and the light return.

Stick with those numbers and you will not buy a dud.


Ok, sounds great. When I asked for reports before, I asked for only stones with triple ex-cut, polish & sym. Can you educate me on how a diamond in the parameters above, having triple ex. would differ from the same stone, same parameters but having very good polish, or very good symmetry?

Dear HM:

This. Online shoppers don't always have the benefit of seeing a dozen stones IRL--hence the "cheat sheet". It is not to say that there are not wonderful stones outside these parameters--BUT your reference brand are "super ideal"s and ACA's look fabu for a reason..

In short, have Tiffany do some leg work in vetting stones with these parameters and you can choose amongst them. It is a reasonable request for Tiffany.

And if you have a month or two--you can read all the threads here on the art and science of cut!

cheers--Sharon
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

To the folks who replied that they liked the 1.11 the most, why is that? The 1.01 scored better and had 3 excellents on the HCA score. The 1.11 only had 1 excellent on the HCA scores. Can you educate me as to why you think that stone is better? Is it due to it's measurements?
 

canuk-gal

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

happilymarried|1456765286|3997358 said:
To the folks who replied that they liked the 1.11 the most, why is that? The 1.01 scored better and had 3 excellents on the HCA score. The 1.11 only had 1 excellent on the HCA scores. Can you educate me as to why you think that stone is better? Is it due to it's measurements?

Toolbar top of page: Knowledge tutorials: you can start there. :read:
 

ame

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

happilymarried|1456761226|3997323 said:
Thanks again for all the replies. At this point, I am looking to buy the tiffany diamond. Below are the certificates, easier to view so you don't have to download them. I know a few people have responded that the 1.11 could be the best one. Does anyone else have thoughts on how these diamonds will perform?

I am 100% willing to buy a tiffany ring as it's still what I believe she will like the most. I just want to get a ring that is as nice as possible as this is a once in a lifetime surprise. I am hoping that I can find a diamond that will be similar to an ideal aca type. So, please let me know what I should do on my hunt for a great tiffany ring. Should I ask for more certificates that only fit the parameters diamondseeker posted above?
The 1.11 is the only one I'd even go near. The others have HUGE tables.
 

happilymarried

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Re: PLEASE! help with tiffany & diamond quality. I'm confus

I emailed Tiffany again, and asked if they could find any with the proportions a few of you listed above. I will let you know how I make out, thanks again.
 
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