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Please help picking an engagement ring...

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ShaunB

Rough_Rock
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Feb 12, 2009
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so i''ve been pretty much consumed since i started this venture into buying the "perfect" diamond that she will love. i''ve been working with a local jewelry dealer and put money down on this diamond:

http://66.134.214.118/oresults/SearchPage.php?st_num=87332108D

EGL-USA

Result List
Stone 87332108D
Weight 1.00 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color H
Clarity VVS2
Measurements 6.41 x 6.31 x 3.99 mm
Depth 62.7%
Table 61%
Crown 13.8%
Pavilion 45%
Crown Angle 35.3°
Pavilion Angle 42.3°
Girdle MEDIUM TO SL. THICK FACETED
Polish VERY GOOD
Symmetry GOOD
Fluorescence N/A
Culet N/A
Cut Grade N/A
Comments


i was completely happy with my choice until i found this site yesterdy and can''t stop reading about how important cut is and this diamond got a "good" rating using the Diamond Cut Analysis. here are the results from that:

Light Return Good
Fire Poor
Scintillation Fair
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 5.8 - Good - Only if price is your main criterion


i went back to the store today with these results and the jeweler laughed when i mentioned the "cut" not being proportionate and how the girdle on ths diamond is "Painted". so of course i came home and researched that and am not pleased about that process but the diamond really does look nice (don''t they all?) so, i''ve been looking at the Blue Nile site and trying to find a 1c diamond with compariable C ratings but a better cut and have found a couple but not sure if it is worth the hassle. the price on the web site is about the same i am paying locally b/c of tax.

any suggestions?

thank you
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
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14,069
That EGL stone sound like bad.

what is your budget? Maybe we can find something for you.
 

ImpatientOne

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Date: 2/12/2009 5:36:44 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
That EGL stone sound like bad.

what is your budget? Maybe we can find something for you.
I agree - YUCK!
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
i loved this diamond until i put the specs into the Cut Advisor, i was hoping for a better feedback on my pick lol but that is why i am here.

my budget started at 3k then went to 4k and they are selling the above diamond for 5k...i can''t really do any more than 5k b/c of the time frame i would like to propose but i can if i just go to 6k. the jeweler said the diamond i selected is over weight for it''s cut but i''m convinced the person who cut the diamond did whatever he could to just keep the 1.0c weight.

please help, and thank you in advance

i do want to add when i asked him to show me a diamond with ideal proportions he had a couple but they were significantly more exspensive and the difference to me wasn''t worth the jump in price. granted these are all EGL certed diamonds and after my research i''ve learned to adjust their rating, although i would think this diamond would still get a VVS-2 rating, it only has 2 small feathers on the card. i just want to make her happy, i think she will be happy either way but i want her smile every time she see''s her ring sparkle.
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
i loved both your selections and would deffinitley appreciate having either one but if possible would like to hit the 1.0c+ mark

hehe i just noticed the search bar above for diamonds, i was told by this jeweler that the Hearts & Arrows was just a fad and after it fads people will wish they had a higher quality (clarity?) diamond. this jeweler has been very friendly and answered a lot of questions but he just doesn''t think like members of this site and many others i''ve found. i would hope he isn''t just trying to sell me the diamond he has knowing it isn''t what i want, i have told him several times i don''t mind spending a little extra to get exactly what i want.

anyone on these forums think that clarity is as important as cut if not more important?

all the opinions i have been able to gather is that it is all about "Brilliance" and "Fire"...lol or as one person said "Bling"
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
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14,069
Date: 2/12/2009 7:12:51 PM
Author: ShaunB
i loved both your selections and would deffinitley appreciate having either one but if possible would like to hit the 1.0c+ mark

hehe i just noticed the search bar above for diamonds, i was told by this jeweler that the Hearts & Arrows was just a fad and after it fads people will wish they had a higher quality (clarity?) diamond. this jeweler has been very friendly and answered a lot of questions but he just doesn''t think like members of this site and many others i''ve found. i would hope he isn''t just trying to sell me the diamond he has knowing it isn''t what i want, i have told him several times i don''t mind spending a little extra to get exactly what i want.

anyone on these forums think that clarity is as important as cut if not more important?

all the opinions i have been able to gather is that it is all about ''Brilliance'' and ''Fire''...lol or as one person said ''Bling''
How about this one.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5510/
Check with Good Old Gold that it is eye-clean.

For most of us here, clarity is of the lowest importance, as long as it is eye-clean. Some will want higher clarity for personal reasons. If you can''t see an inclusion, it does not matter if it is IF or SI1, it is still eye-clean so why pay the premium.
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
i can agree with that and when i first started this mission i wanted 1c with good color but i just wanted to make sure it was brilliant, but some how got convinced that it would be smarter to go with a better clarity diamond over the better cut less clarity diamonds...as of now this is my search criteria


1.0c+
H+
SI-1 + (has to be eye clean, for my sanity and for her sake)
Ideal Cut+ (hearts and arrows is neat but not needed)

after all that i''d like for the diamond to have EX polish and semitry in a perfect world.
 

cara

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
2,202
Do a little more reading under the knowledge tab on cut, color, clarity and H&A. H&A is a pattern that requires a certain amount of symmetry and care in the cutting process - usually but not always, the H&A stones are also 'well-cut' in terms of having good light return ie. sparkly.

For me, clarity is a bar to clear. I want to see no defects when the diamond is on my hand, but I see no point in paying more for VVS when VS will accomplish that just fine. With budget constraints, you should look to SI and shop with vendors that allow returns and give a good, trusted opinion on eye-cleanliness. Also, some people love their I/J stones and a well-cut RB will 'face-up' whiter than a poorly cut stone of the same color. If you've already investigated color and decided H is your bottom line, go with it, but in case not...

How about:
1.00 H SI1 GOG

1.06 J VS2 WF

If you do a cut search on the ps frontpage, that will allow to search for inhouse diamonds of high cut quality. There were also some James Allen stones you might consider, but you would need to ask them about eye-cleanliness. Maybe some pser with a better eye for reading their pictures would be able to scan them for you - I don't trust myself to evaluate their pics for eyecleanliness - but they have some SI stones in your range for consideration!
 

Stone-cold11

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ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
thank you so much for the replies!!! i appreciate it so much.

my absolute bottom would be 6k including taxes shipping etc, that isn't leaving me much for a setting which i was planning on just getting a Solitaire setting.

to the poster above i would be ok with an SI-1 or SI-2 as long as it was completely eye clean, i mean with an Ideal cut it will be sparkling so much she wouldn't be able to find any thing in there with out magnification right? i just hope that she will appreciate the extra brilliance and cut.

the reason i do not want to go below H is b/c the diamond i had seleced was a EGL graded H which i guess is prolly an I so i should consider them as well?

i know i have to make a sacrifice somewhere to stay in budget and if i do i would like to have the most Ideal Cut and hopefully a good color if i'm getting a low clarity diamond but it has to be eye clean...wish i had a jeweler in town that didnt get offended with me asking for this.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Ya, EGL can be soft on color and clarity grading and since all the stones he showed you are EGL, you could be fool. The actual grade can only be told by an independent appraiser if you want to stick with EGL.
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
i know this is a magnified image but this is what i'm afraid of when purchasing a S-antying

http://www.jamesallen.com/diampics/1NE9162PIC.JPG

i'm going to keep searching, one thing i do like about dealing with the local dealer is i can pay him in large installments, looking at these other diamonds doesn't do me any good if i have to order the diamond 2 months from now...hehe guess i have plenty of time to drive myself crazy.

i really like this diamond

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1193890.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

it is I color but i feel more comfortable with a VS-2 than a SI, wonder if i can put any of these on hold....guess i could always just get my money back from the jeweler or have him order me one.
 

Asscherhalo_lover

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
4,861
i like this one James Allen

it has hearts and arrows, it's just over a carat, nice clarity, plus, the little bit of fluorescence will make the diamond look even whiter...check it out!

it scored a 1.1 within TIC on the cut adviser, triple x all the way!

i would be proud to wear this one!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
It is also due to the lighting that the pics are taken with. So the inclusions are more visible. What we usually do around here is to ask the vendors to check for eye-cleanness of the stone for us before we decide on a stone. Since all the quality cut vendors here has a good review period, it is to their advantage that a stone is not return due to mis-representation.
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
man i really like those diamonds, would it be tacky to get a loan for an engagement ring?

i''m sure these diamonds come and go and there will be another one similar to these in a month or two when i have all of the money but i do not want to wait till the last minute. it is really hard doing this b/c i cannot ask anyone in my family or my friends b/c i can''t trust that they won''t keep the suprise...only people i''ve been able to talk to were co-workers and a jeweler who wants be to buy a diamond i''m not sure i''m happy with hehe.

thanks again for all the help
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Probably there will be new stones in, but if you see something you really like and a great deal, buy it. May not be there. I bought mine last year, it is still with the vendor, will wait until next year before setting it and popping the question.
 

swingirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
5,655
Date: 2/12/2009 7:46:07 PM
Author: cara
Do a little more reading under the knowledge tab on cut, color, clarity and H&A. H&A is a pattern that requires a certain amount of symmetry and care in the cutting process - usually but not always, the H&A stones are also 'well-cut' in terms of having good light return ie. sparkly.
How about:

1.00 H SI1 GOG


1.06 J VS2 WF
These get my vote along with this one.

1.03ct J SI1
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
i''ve was just comparing diamonds from Blue Nile to those found in the search here and was wondering if the Hearts & Arrows is something that is done special or will any diamond with GIA Ideal Cut and Excellent polish and simentry have a similar affect as the Hearts & Arrows?

on the Blue Nile site they do not mention anything about the Hearts & Arrows, maybe that is for their Signature Series
 

Kelli

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
5,455
Date: 2/12/2009 8:50:46 PM
Author: swingirl

Date: 2/12/2009 7:46:07 PM
Author: cara
Do a little more reading under the knowledge tab on cut, color, clarity and H&A. H&A is a pattern that requires a certain amount of symmetry and care in the cutting process - usually but not always, the H&A stones are also ''well-cut'' in terms of having good light return ie. sparkly.
How about:

1.00 H SI1 GOG


1.06 J VS2 WF
These get my vote along with this one.

1.03ct J SI1
Ditto. All gorgeous!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 2/12/2009 10:04:50 PM
Author: ShaunB
i've was just comparing diamonds from Blue Nile to those found in the search here and was wondering if the Hearts & Arrows is something that is done special or will any diamond with GIA Ideal Cut and Excellent polish and simentry have a similar affect as the Hearts & Arrows?

on the Blue Nile site they do not mention anything about the Hearts & Arrows, maybe that is for their Signature Series
Actual hearts and arrows diamonds are subject to strict standards as originally decreed by h&a conoisseurs and experts. You can find some well cut diamonds will exhibit a strong arrow pattern and even hearts, however they may not reach the standards necessary to be considered an example of this precision cutting style. You can get lesser cut diamonds also show h&a and well cut gems that do not show h&a. So it really depends, if you want an undisputed h&a diamond then look at some branded Infinity from www.highperformancediamonds.com or A Cut Above from www.whiteflash.com . If a diamond is being sold as a h&a cut then it is important that this is proven not only with arrow patterning images, but hearts images in order to judge overall cut precision.

As to the diamond you originally posted, I would pass on that one as it is not well cut.
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
Sorry to be blunt, but if your jeweller insists on telling you clarity is the most important factor, he is either a fool or a crook.
He is getting you to pay big extra $$ for IF, when you cannot possibly see the difference between that and an accurately graded VS1 or 2. Thats thousands of $ of difference.

Whereas, if you focus on cut you absolutely will see the difference. Cut quality creates sparkle, fire, brilliance - all the things that makes diamonds *diamonds*, kwim?

I''m guessing you have not seen this stone outside the store? All retail jewellers have special lighting that make their stones look amazing - once you get it home/outside, it will not look as hot
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29

argh..


i wrote a really long story about what happened today and when i went to hit submit my browser went to previous page, so for now i will give the short version.


today went really well and i'm looking forward to working with this jeweler ordering the diamond i wont, what should i expect to pay for a finders/handler fee?


GIA or AGS certified
Cut: Excellent or Ideal
Carat: 1.0 +
Color: I +
Clarity: SI-1 + (has to be eye clean)
Polsih: Excellent
Symentry: Excellent
Fire: Exellent
Budget: $5,000 - $6,000

i am hoping to get the most brilliant diamond for my money above 1c , anyone thing i should ask for something else?

 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
yea i considered buying one myself, every jeweler i''ve asked about it and they acted like they never heard of it. could be b/c they just haven''t heard of them or they do not want me to be able to pick the most brilliant diamond and save some money?

hmm now where do i get the ideal scope shipped to, hehe

my house my brother or his girlfriend might see it and well i can''t get it shipped to the girlfriends, i''ll ask the jeweler.

part of the story i was writing and it got erased was when i went into the jeweler yesterday, my girfriends uncle was sitting right there. i turned around to walk out and the jeweler asked me what was the matter and all i could think of doing was getting out of there as quick as possible lol. after regaining my composure outside i remembered it was close to valentines day and i could just say i''m in there for that....i played it off pretty good i think.

let''s just hope he doesn''t tell her dad and her dad asks her what jewelry i got her for valentines day hahaha
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Apparently Idealscope is not well known in some cases, what I suggest you could consider is to actually buy an ASET scope. This you can use for judging fancy shape diamonds also, plus I am told ASET is better known and understood by some in the trade, also AGS use ASET software for judging cut performance. An ASET is more expensive but might serve you well now and in the future as a versatile tool to help you.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=23&ShowAdd=Y
 

ShaunB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
29
Weight 1.02 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color I
Clarity SI2
Measurements 6.5 x 6.45 x 3.99 mm
Depth 61.6%
Table 55%
Crown 15.6%
Pavilion 42.6%
Crown Angle 34.9°
Pavilion Angle 40.6°
Girdle THIN TO MEDIUM FACETED
Polish EXCELLENT
Symmetry EXCELLENT
Fluorescence N/A
Culet N/A
Cut Grade IDEAL PLUS
Comments IDEAL PLUS H & A


how do you guys feel about these numbers? it got a 0.8 on the Cut Advisor.

how is EGL as far as there cut grading?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
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42,064
Date: 2/16/2009 2:13:38 PM
Author: ShaunB
Weight 1.02 CT
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color I
Clarity SI2
Measurements 6.5 x 6.45 x 3.99 mm
Depth 61.6%
Table 55%
Crown 15.6%
Pavilion 42.6%
Crown Angle 34.9°
Pavilion Angle 40.6°
Girdle THIN TO MEDIUM FACETED
Polish EXCELLENT
Symmetry EXCELLENT
Fluorescence N/A
Culet N/A
Cut Grade IDEAL PLUS
Comments IDEAL PLUS H & A


how do you guys feel about these numbers? it got a 0.8 on the Cut Advisor.

how is EGL as far as there cut grading?
It looks promising, which EGL lab graded the diamond, EGL USA etc? Is it with the same jeweller as previously? As to EGL cut grading such as Ideal Plus, really no idea what criteria they base that on...Also don't go by labels such as Ideal Cut unless referring to AGS0 Ideal cut grade, otherwise this is no guarantee of a well cut diamond.

Having said all that, the above diamond does look promising by the numbers, can you get an Idealscope or ASET image for this diamond?

If you like the diamond then make the sale contingent and get this in writing that the diamond checks out to your satisfaction in every respect with an independant appraisal.
 
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