shape
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Please Help me with diamond spec!!

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Fktleh922, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. jp201845
    Shiny_Rock

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    by jp201845 » Jun 17, 2019
    @Karl you beat me to it
     
  2. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Jun 17, 2019
    I like the first one you asked about, and #4. I don't like #3 as much bc I think VVS clarity is overkill. But I think 3 and 4 are similar in price bc 3 is overkill on clarity and 4 is overkill on color. But I think the first one is a more balanced choice and you save some money.
     
  3. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 17, 2019
    Oh sorry. didnt know. Thanks for educating me on diamonds. When my ring comes in, i will post pictures about it. Thank you!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  4. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 17, 2019
    So which stone did you eventually decide on?
     
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  5. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 17, 2019
    I am gonna take all of your advice and just stick with the first stone i posted on here. You know how people always circle back to the first choice? Yep that happened to me. Seems like everybody who responded to me genuinely likes the first stone for its price. Including you!! Bmfang:) Obviously I cannot get super ideal cut for perfect H&A but the rock still should be shiny and looks very clean instead of dull. I did checked out Whiteflash and places that yall recommended but i Didn't find the right price for the size im trying to stay at so yeah..

    Besides i was really worry about 35.5 Crown angle with 40.6 pavilion angle combo along with 45% star facet but thanks to diamond expert @Karl_K taught me that 35.5 crown angle with 45 star facet is a good combo. So I think i am just gonna stick with that. I think just for 1.5 cts clarity vs1 and color G is also good enough for it to not show yellowing or dullness.... hopefully.

    Bmfang, do you think its alot of differences in light performance for being perfect H&A or not?
     
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  6. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 17, 2019
    The answer is... it depends. Really. Some folks are perfectly happy with a non-super ideal stone which happens to have proportions that fall within PS recommended ranges. Others want top cut quality and only card about that. Me? I’d be happy with either depending on price vs 4C’s.

    I can notice a difference between my wife’s super ideal stones and stones that are not super ideal. Then again, those non-super ideal stones (while GIA XXX) do not fall within the PS recommended proportions range.
     
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  7. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 17, 2019
    @bmfang Really? Now im having a second thoughts. I do not know what to do and i really wish that I can ask somebody to just a create a diamond they way i want within my price budget. !!! Its just that we had this discussion and she really wanted Tiffany 1.5 cts. she said her friends compared tiffany rings vs non tiffany rings (according to her, two of them are from tiffany and other 2 are from local vendors and 1 was from james allen? I think. And they are all similar to the sizes and color and clarity.) and tiffany rings were for some reason way more sparkle than others under light. She said she does not want tiffany because of their brand name but its sparkle. But she said she would not mind and still love to have non Tiffany as long as i can find sparkle one. Now when i studied, cut is the most absolutely important factor that attributes to that matter. Idk what to do. This is harder than i thought.
     
  8. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Jun 17, 2019
    That's probably because the Tiffany rings had better cut stones than the one from a local jeweler. But there's also an important mental factor here. If she 100% wants Tiffany, then she might not be happy with anything else. If she's open to alternatives, then getting the best cut stone you possibly can is the right choice.

    The first stone you posted is likely excellent and will perform well. However, it might not perform *as well* as a super ideal cut. That's why people recommended looking at Whiteflash or HP diamonds, because you wanted the absolute best cut, and that's what those vendors will provide.
     
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  9. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 17, 2019
    Some stones from Tiffany perform exceptionally well. Others are not so good. Of course, under Tiffany showroom lighting, even the worst cut modern round brilliant will look great. I just heard this at a work lunch last week when one of my colleagues insisted that all of Tiffany’s diamonds had patented cuts that meant that they all performed brilliantly and then asked my opinion. I had to be the one that deflated that balloon quick smart by pointing out that in the case of Tiffany’s round brilliants, they were the same as any other standard 58 facet modern round brilliant in the market, no patent required. Except that what one was paying for was some intangible quality and that little blue box and bag. Sometimes the settings are very well made, others they are so-so.

    The stone you eventually chose will perform quite well. In fact, it has similar proportions to some stones from Tiffany & Co that I have seen recently. And they looked good under spotlighting. Only difference I can recall is that the Lower girdle facet percentage on the Tiffany stone was closer to 80% rather than yours which i’d estimate to be around 73-74 given how far the arrows are, that means your pavilion mains are quite large which will help to contribute to some very bold flashes of light.

    Another reason why a lot of us prefer to buy from super ideal vendors is that they also make life very easy to determine the light performance of stones. BN unfortunately does not provide Idealscope and ASET imagery for their stones. The closest you’ll get to light performance data is for their Astor line which has the Gemex report.
     
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  10. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Karl_K » Jun 17, 2019
    Tiffany sells a lot of diamonds with similar proportions but not as well cut at times to the first one so since its ordered judge with own eyes.
    If she loves the looks of Tiffany diamonds your on the right path.
     
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  11. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 18, 2019
    Sigh.. guys... i was trying to order it yesterday after work, the stone got sold to other buyer... ugh so frustrated. Now i have to choose between these two. I hold them both so can you pitch your ideas again? Im so sorry that this shit happened. :(

    And i looked whiteflash. They are all AGS. She wants GIA.

    https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11714870

    What about this one? I know its overkill on clarity and yes it is more expensive but is this one also quite good cut as the other one??

    Im so pissed off that first one is gone...
     
  12. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Jun 18, 2019
    AGS is a better lab for cut than gia. She likely doesn't know that, and thinks it's a random untrustworthy lab. If you explain that WF has branded super ideal cut diamonds that are the best in the buisiness, she will likely be very happy with that.

    Edit. What I mean by "better for cut" is that a GIA XXX is not guaranteed to be a good performing stone. Many are not. AGS 000 (like WF has) is much more strict and very likely to be excellent
     
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  13. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 18, 2019
    Nothing wrong with that new stone. But as @lovedogs has said, AGS000 stones generally speaking are cut better than GIA XXX. Why? Because science.

    Most of the super ideal vendors send their stones to AGS for grading because they are the only lab that specialises in cut grading and light performance.

    I would be looking at not only WF, but also stones cut by Brian Gavin Diamonds, Crafted By Infinity and Victor Canera H&A as well. Some other suggestions from me. I did take a look at Whiteflash’s Premium Select range (which are GIA graded stones but the one that looked promising, I ultimately decided against suggesting below).

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4095773.htm

    https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/1.547-i-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104103148034
     
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  14. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 18, 2019

    Thank you for a detailed response as usual. Those vendors however do not provide good financing option. I need at least interest free six month payment options with 20%down payment and they do not offer that. .. but I am amazed by what you guys been talking about true ideal cuts and how H and A can be optical symmetry. Especially the one you chose from WF looks awesome. But im sorry that i have to pass those vendors.. also it would take awhile to pass the information along about AGS and GIA differences.

    Can you tell me how Bluenile stone is being close perfect H and A? And i know you said extra facet should not be a problem but how can you tell where it is ?? I have been trying to see what you see but its hard to do so.
     
  15. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 18, 2019
    Yeah i can tell that AGS grading for cut is way more tighter than GIA. Along with pictures that they provide too you know.
     
    


    


  16. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 18, 2019
    I’m not going to comment much on how you’re planning on paying for it apart from saying that I would ordinarily pay for jewellery like this in cash upfront (from money saved up over a month or two) rather than going down the financing route (unless money is of no consequence and you’re going on financing just for $h1t$ and giggles). That plus there is no statistical correlation between success of marriage and the size of the engagement ring. Now that is out of the way...

    From top down arrow shafts appear to line up with the arrow heads which is a good start. As I have said before, it is very difficult to make an educated guess about whether it will have a good hearts image without actual imagery of the stone pavilion side up (and this is one weakness of buying from Blue Nile).

    Your proportions for this stone are also good as they would fall within generic super ideal ranges. But due to GIA rounding on crown angles, it is a crapshoot as to whether you are at the low end of the range (34.76 degrees averaged over 8 CA’s), high end (35.24 degrees) or somewhere around 35.

    Using a statistical calculator done up by one of our PS members (@gm89uk) which aims at determining crown and pavilion angles from the GIA rounded data, there’s a higher probability of this stone having a CA higher than 35 degrees. Inputting CA’s of 35.1 and 35.2 into the HCA still gives scores that are sub-2 which would generally confirm that this is a well cut stone. The statistical analysis also says that there is a very high probability that the stone’s PA is likely to be at 40.85 or less which still keeps the stone sub-2 on HCA.

    The extra facet is out on the girdle which will pose no issues re: symmetry. From my eyes and what the data is showing, this looks like it will be a good performer. If it was H&A, this would likely have been in Blue Nile’s Astor line. I would have an educated guess that it will have a fairly high degree of optical symmetry, but not at the same level as a stone from the usual PS recommended super ideal vendors.
     
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  17. parkour
    Rough_Rock

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    by parkour » Jun 18, 2019
    What is this statistical calculator you speak of? Can you provide link to this calculator?
     
  18. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 18, 2019
    http://gmsoft.somee.com/
     
  19. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 18, 2019
    @bmfang i respect you. Your so knowledgeable. Thank you so much for so detailed answers on it. This is exactly what I wanted to hear about that stone.

    As far as financial goes, We already kinda opened up our financial status and have savings accounts together. I do have money for it just dont want her to know that I bought it and she will know it if big chunk of money will go missing. Be sides, I kinda do not want to tell her how much I sent on the ring and plan to pay with my monthly budget allowance. Thanks for the advice though. I do appreciate it.
     
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  20. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Jun 18, 2019
    I understand that, but it truly doesn't make sense to not get a super ideal cut stone (that you can afford) because you dont want your FI to know you bought it. I feel like you are shooting yourself in the foot a little bit.
     
  21. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 18, 2019
    Im not shooting myself in the feet if i can pay them off within 6month period of time with interest free. Besides the super ideal vendors that you kept mentioning do not have what i want within my price range. I understand cut is the most important thing here but i still want to stay within certain size, color and clarity. But still thanks for any input.
     
  22. jp201845
    Shiny_Rock

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    by jp201845 » Jun 18, 2019
    Martin @ USA Certed Diamonds is not a super ideal vendor but he is amazing and I'm sure he can find you something special !
     
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  23. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 19, 2019
    Thanks for the info but I do not need to find any vendor. I posted on here to check up on the diamonds that I already found. Not looking for new one.
     
  24. jp201845
    Shiny_Rock

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    by jp201845 » Jun 19, 2019
    Sorry my mistake
     
  25. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 19, 2019
    Question: are you planning on upgrading the stone at anytime in the future?
     
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  26. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 19, 2019
    Maybe? I do not know how things will turn out but I was thinking to upgrade the ring on our 5th wedding anniversary. I was thinking to upgrade it later to 3 cts for her and that will be it. How about you? did you ever upgrade her ring?
     
  27. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by bmfang » Jun 19, 2019
    My wife’s engagement ring was a family heirloom (grandmother’s ring). Our wedding bands were recast from 22kt gold rings that were gifted to me as a baby. So I didn’t upgrade at all.

    For anniversaries and push presents, I have bought “new” rings and studs with stones in them. Given I am in Australia and have purchased from one US vendor (Brian Gavin Diamonds), I could do the upgrade route in the future but then I have to deal with import/export paperwork. I have enough to deal with in life. With an anniversary ring I bought from a local jeweller, their upgrade policy is new stone must be twice the cost of the original, receive 100% credit for original stone and pay the difference.

    Besides, my wife likes these rings and for future anniversaries, I may get her a three stone ring (though given how practical she is, she’ll probably tell me to spend the money on our son’s education instead).

    The reason why I ask that question to you is that if you are going to consider upgrading in the future, Blue Nile’s upgrade policies are probably the most inflexible. You will be up for at least double the current price of the stone you select (e.g. so if current stone is $14k, your upgrade stone needs to be $28k and you pay the $14k difference).

    With vendors like Whiteflash and High Performance Diamonds, it’s as simple as the new stone needing to be $1 more than the value of your original stone in order to upgrade. Assuming your original stone isn’t damaged and you return the original grading reports to them.

    With Brian Gavin Diamonds, the new stone must be $1 more than the old one and it has to be higher than the old stone in at least two of the following C’s (colour, clarity and carat).

    So I am wondering if you have factored that into your purchase or whether it is solely the financing aspect (I’m guessing it’s the Blue Nile Credit Card that you’ll use).
     
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  28. Fktleh922
    Rough_Rock

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    by Fktleh922 » Jun 19, 2019
    Thats great how you guys had family heirloom. Thats definitely something I would have done if our family had one.

    I didnt know that your live in Australia! It is one of the place I have been wanting to visit(I am nature guy.) but then my fiancée is terrified about giants things that lived there. Especially giant bats. We both work in medical field and she specially works with viruses alot. And apparently bats are giant host for lots of different viruses she works with.

    Anyway, yeah I am aware of that policy (I think most of places are like that- have to buy a ring that costs twice or more than your original ring for the upgrade). I dont know about how we will upgrade. She might wanna keep the old ring(the engagement ring) and just wants to buy a new one completely. Or we might trade in. But one thing that I know for sure is that the price is prob gonna be at least double since its gonna be around 3 cts with good color and clarity. But thats good to know that some of the vendors will offer $1 more upgrades policies.

    But upgrade thing is still in the air. Im just having hard time buying the first one right now you know. Haha
     
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