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BobK

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
12
I've decided on an engagement ring setting from James Allen and I'm looking for a 1ct diamond to go in it. Using some advice from here I've set the search parameters to:

Cut: Ideal or better
Color: I or better
Clarity: SI1 or better

This brings back a huge number of results and I am wondering how to choose which ones to look at more closely. Should I be looking for ones that show a nice symmetrical arrow effect and avoiding ones that show no obvious pattern?

This is one that i've picked out which I think looks good, could anyone comment on it please?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4791429
 
@BobK no expert but will give general advise.

I would further narrow your search to GIA or AGS only certificates....this is an IGI report. IGI grades color more leniently than GIA might.

If you post your budget, someone will be along shortly to help show you other options.
 
I was hoping to be able to get an eye clean 1ct diamond for around $5000 if possible. Is that realistic?
 
BobK said:
I was hoping to be able to get an eye clean 1ct diamond for around $5000 if possible. Is that realistic?
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

As Metall rightly says, best to stick with GIA or AGS graded diamonds as these are considered the most accurate. Yes, you can get around that size for the budget, is the budget just for the stone or does it have to cover the setting too please?
 
@Lorelei that would just be for the stone, thanks.
 
BobK said:
I was hoping to be able to get
an eye clean 1ct diamond for around $5000 if possible. Is that
realistic?
Click to expand...
This is achievable but be aware of what you may be trading off. Low colours will be accessible, but without great cut quality, you are going to see more tint face up. Low clarities may be
achievable, but appealing discounts promoted as eye clean need to be checked
for haze, tint or transparency hindrance. There are also abundant "1.00
carat" diamonds out there which are discounted because they were cut deep,
so don't reach the mm size we'd normally seek for good value. Truly it's
about what you want when you are fully informed.

Going up in cut quality while down in carat weight a bit may bring appealing
diamonds into your budget. Well cut 0.90 carat diamonds can appear as large
or even larger than the average 1.00 carat diamond due to edge to edge
brilliance, especially in low lighting.
 
For screening diamonds, start with these parameters.
GIA or AGS (HRD, though less common)
table: 54-58 (I personally prefer the small end of this range)
depth: 60-62.5
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle; I also consider up to 36 with a complimentary pavilion angle and IS or ASET)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

Anything within these criteria that meet your color/clarity goals, you can put through the HCA Too.l. https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Not all stones will come up if you type in a GIA number, if so. Delete anything in that field and type in the numbers. This asks if the angles of the diamond (or at least those 4 above) are complimentary. We suggest eliminating from consideration anything 2.0 or above. A few caveats: (1) Its an elimination, not selection tool so 1.9 is not better or worse than 1.0, (2) there are other possible good combos and more experienced PS member may post those, and (3) don't bother with this for AGS 000 or branded super-ideals.

The stones that are left, you can post here for thoughts and helping to narrow your selection. Then, ask for ASET (performance/light return as @bmfang said above) and H&A will tell us about the cut and symmetry. Don't request IS from JA quite yet, as they will limit you to 3 requests per email. Let's see what folks can find.
 
Bob, I take it you prefer to stay with James Allen due to the setting sale or do we have any flexibility with other vendors please?
 
Wow, lots of responses, thank you!

Lorelei said:
Bob, I take it you prefer to stay with James Allen due to the setting sale or do we have any flexibility with other vendors please?
Click to expand...

Yes I would, mainly due to time constraints. I would like the ring by the end of the month so that doesn't really leave time for coordinating multiple vendors.
 
 
BobK said:
I've found three that look good to me and score below 2 on the HCA:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4722902

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4634541

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4846317

Does anyone have any comments on these before I ask for ASET and IS images? I think the VVS2 is my favorite so I hope it gets the seal of approval!
Click to expand...
Of these, I only like #3 {6.39 mm}, I'm not a fan of the low CA of 1 and 2. They will lack fire and look kinda flat.

But, I really prefer this on posted by @Lorelei as long as the JA gemologist finds that the clouds have no impact on the diamond. They are not grade-setting, so its less likely.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4568408 {6.41 mm)

This is a nice H color. Its a 60/60 style diamond with more white light than fire.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4731952 {6.21 mm}

Have you looked at GIA graded diamonds with the intended wearer? Some really like J and K colors. I find most people can start to see tint from the side at I.

In a J, I also like this one.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4804047 {6.23 mm)

If you can find a setting, this is slightly below your size goal of 1 carat, but has a perfect ASET. Its also only $4002 (wire), so you have more room for a setting. WF has a more generous tradeup policy, so your girl can apply 100% of the cost of this upgrade for a larger stone (or whiter) as long as it costs $1 more than this one. Clarity is stunning.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3984578.htm

Settings from WF
https://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-432.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-1022.htm (really pretty, also has a pave version)
 
Last edited:
BobK said:
I've found three that look good to me and score below 2 on the HCA:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4722902

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4634541

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...j-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4846317

Does anyone have any comments on these before I ask for ASET and IS images? I think the VVS2 is my favorite so I hope it gets the seal of approval!
Click to expand...

These are all J colour though, have you decided to go lower on colour as you said I colour or higher initially? That would open up more options if so.
 
Lorelei said:
These are all J colour though, have you decided to go lower on colour as you said I colour or higher initially? That would open up more options if so.
Click to expand...

That's a very good point and I must admit I had not noticed! I do think that if I have to compromise on something I would rather it be the colour. However, some of these 0.9 carat stones look very appealing.
 
BobK said:
That's a very good point and I must admit I had not noticed! I do think that if I have to compromise on something I would rather it be the colour. However, some of these 0.9 carat stones look very appealing.
Click to expand...

Not a problem Bob plus J colour would definitely open up your choices.

The J VVS2 looks good, the crown angle is slightly shallower and that along with the rest of the proportions mean it might favour white light rather than coloured light ( might be more brilliant than fiery) but that's fine unless you'd prefer a slightly more ' balanced' stone but no one can tell you for sure how it will look, other than an experienced person with the stone in hand.

It has medium blue fluorescence which I think is a nice addition in a J colour so definitely worth shortlisting unless we find some others. Do you also prefer very high clarity?
 
BobK said:
That's a very good point and I must admit I had not noticed! I do think that if I have to compromise on something I would rather it be the colour. However, some of these 0.9 carat stones look very appealing.
Click to expand...
Color acuity is high variable. But, people generally can detect color from the side of I color and lower. There are strategies to minimize that in how the stone is set.T hink of the wearer, are they in an artistic field for work. Do they use words like "ecru, dove white, greige, sandstone" or is everything white or beige? Do they search for just the right shade of pink nail polish or do they go with whatever? Does she need to find "just" the right shoe/handbag/nail polish for an outfit, or does she stick with a few basics? These can give you hints to the wearer color acuity.
 
I wouldn't say she has displayed a high sensitivity for colour, based on what you've said. We haven't looked at any diamonds together though so it's quite hard to say. My feeling is that she will be very happy if it's a decent size, has great fire and sparkle and no obvious flaws.

This is the ring I like:
https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/platinum-pave-rope-engagement-ring-item-52850

I can't see anything very similar at Whiteflash, otherwise I would be very tempted by the WF stone you found.
 
BobK said:
I wouldn't say she has displayed a high sensitivity for colour, based on what you've said. We haven't looked at any diamonds together though so it's quite hard to say. My feeling is that she will be very happy if it's a decent size, has great fire and sparkle and no obvious flaws.

This is the ring I like:
https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/platinum-pave-rope-engagement-ring-item-52850

I can't see anything very similar at Whiteflash, otherwise I would be very tempted by the WF stone you found.
Click to expand...
There is a lot to like about that setting if she likes the twisted shank. My concern would be the construction where the head is held at a single point of contact. That is not a very secure setup.
upload_2018-5-4_8-1-2.png

WF does have that are similar and they are constructed with a more secure contact.
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...r1394-fabled-diamond-engagement-ring-3434.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...r1596-fabled-diamond-engagement-ring-4130.htm

You could also reach out to WF sent them your JA option and see if they have something that would have a shank like this (one solid, one pave), but with a more secure and integrated head.
 

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rockysalamander said:
Color acuity is high variable. But, people generally can detect color from the side of I color and lower. There are strategies to minimize that in how the stone is set.T hink of the wearer, are they in an artistic field for work. Do they use words like "ecru, dove white, greige, sandstone" or is everything white or beige? Do they search for just the right shade of pink nail polish or do they go with whatever? Does she need to find "just" the right shoe/handbag/nail polish for an outfit, or does she stick with a few basics? These can give you hints to the wearer color acuity.
Click to expand...

* quick threadjack*

You would have to mention that wouldn't you my Fairy, I had to hunt down as many backup bottles as I could of THE perfect discontinued Dior nude nail polish. You bet I would tell the difference between so called dupes....

* carry on*:tongue:
 
:mrgreen2::lol-2::mrgreen2::lol-2:
 
BobK said:
@rockysalamander Thanks for pointing that out about the setting. I'm not really keen on the WF versions of it; I think they're a bit too chunky. But perhaps I will ask if she'd like a more traditional solitaire setting.

I see that this is still available from that other thread:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4798544
Is it a better choice than the others I've looked at so far?
Click to expand...

I really like this one, excellent proportions and great colour and clarity specs, a quality stone all round.
 
Definitely take a look at my thread that @rockysalamander recommended. There was a lot of great suggestions in there.

I might add I was in serious conversations at one point with WF about a diamond and setting. My rep told me they can design something or work with just about anyone to get the setting I want. Even if there are designers listed on their site, they don't have all them listed but you can go look on the designers site and WF can get them. They are very easy to work with in that regards.

So don't get stuck on JA because you like their settings. Worst case, buy the setting from JA and ship it overnight to wherever you buy the diamond. Easy peasy. FYI, if you sign up to their emails, you get $100 off your first JA order. This is probably my favorite twisty ring they have on their site (great price for pave & platinum, although side stones are small):

https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...d-pave-shank-contemporary-solitaire-item-6858

In regards to the diamond, you can find a super diamond for around $5,000. Is that your max number, or you can go over a little? I ask because I was searching for similar stones as you. I came to the conclusion that my best bang for the buck was something just a hair under 1 carat as you get a better value. Consequently I opened up my search to 0.85ct and above. Ultimately I chose to go with a 0.867 Brian Gavin Blue diamond. It's an H, VS2, super ideal cut, hearts & arrow diamond. Got it for $4,800.

Prior to finding that stone, I almost pulled the trigger on this WF stone. 0.90ct, G, VS1, premium select, ideal cut. It's a gorgeous stone and although "only" a premium select, it rivaled and was just as quality as their ACA (A Cut Above) stones. This wasn't just my opinion or the opinion of people on here, but the gemologist at WF actually compared it to some ACA stones I was also comparing and her recommendation was this stone as it was stunning. She said she hadn't saw many premium selects perform as well.

My entire thread on the diamond search thread is here (look particularly @ post #21):
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ope-need-input-on-this-diamond-please.240443/

The exact diamond I am referring to above at WF is here. It's still available (hint, hint) if you can increase your budget slightly.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3945630.htm
 
Here's a 1.01ct super ideal cut hearts & arrow BGD Blue series stone. It has fluorescence which helps whiten up the I color of the stone. FYI, if you don't know about this subject matter, do some reading. My stone is a Blue series and I like it. Good value for the money. I'd personally prefer a VS+ stone but it is an eye clean stone.

It's worth a consideration if your budget allows a little flex. If so, call Lesley and have her take a look at it in-person to confirm eye clean. When I called her, I told her I had sensitive eyes and wanted mine examined with scrutiny and closer up than "normal". She can probably review the diamond both ways for you.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.018-i-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104098623008

Brian Gavin Blue - Education (be sure to watch the YouTube video :love:)
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/

Some other BGD options, although slightly smaller (and <$5,000):
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/0.800-f-si1-round-diamond-ags-104074030007
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/0.810-f-si1-round-diamond-ags-104076722001
 
I tend to stick to G/H in modern rounds and will go to an I in a superideal. But, I'm probably pretty color observant. That said, I have very low colored diamonds that I love (like P colored!).

I think the G VS2 from JA is lovely. If you were going to stick with JA, I like @Lorelei suggestion as an I color and good size.

Settings from JA:
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...e-flower-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-50125
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...ellis-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-item-50130

I love BG diamonds, but for this budget - if you don't want to bump it up - I think the WF and JA options are better options.

Edited to add: Settings from BGD (being thorough here)
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/eliza-sholdt-platinum-5838p
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/daphne-sholdt-platinum-6674p
 
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