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Please help me decide on this sapphire?

catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Hi everyone,

I'm a longtime lurker of this site and after six months of research, hope you can help me with purchasing a sapphire. I've been meaning to upgrade my diamond engagement ring to a three stone sapphire ring with diamond sides. A local jeweller here in Canada was able to source for me a pretty 4.5 carat cushion cut, but since sapphires are hard to come by here, I haven't been able to determine whether this is a good stone sold at a fair price. It's slightly larger than what I had originally considered which is a medium blue squarish sapphire gem. I was offered about $4,600 for my one carat round diamond, which seems reasonable to me.

The only certification it comes with appears to be from an appraiser in Toronto.

Here is what I can remember from that document:
Colour is a violetish blue, medium saturation with slightly grey tones and strong colour zoni
Type II (unsure what this refers to)
NATURAL (nothing indicating its up heated or heated, though looking at it through a loupe I saw some color banding. Still this has to be heat treated. I'm sure of it at this price.)
Cut: good
Nothing about clarity or inclusions

It's quite pretty in person and on the medium to dark side. This is being offered to me for $5400. The document states it's appraised at $23,000, which seems ridiculous. The stone is from Australia and I was able to also see that this cost $3400 to the jeweller. So now I'm asking myself how much of a markup is fair in the jewelry business ?

Sorry for the bad photo but all I had was an iPhone with me!
Thank you for any insight you can provide. I don't want to trade in a valuable diamond for a sapphire that winds up being a dud!

Valerie

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lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
10,456
My personal view is that the stone is too dark, and will look almlst black in many lights (especially once set). Do you need to find a stone through your jeweler? We could definitely find you something better for significantly less money (although of course without the trade in of your diamond). Also I would personally want a certificate from a reputable lab (GIA, etc) for a stone that pricey. Do you have a specific color in mind (some people prefer Royal blue, others a lighter blue)?

ETA: I see you said medium blue above, but would you mind attaching a picture of the color you consider "ideal"? Just because what some people call medium others could consider dark.

Also, Welcome! :wavey:
 

catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Thank you! Here is the stone from the back- again it's blurry. Also a photo I found on the Internet of an ideal colour (and setting). I wouldn't mind buying something without the trade in but I've been finding if I buy from the USA I'm required to pay lots in duties. Also my sense from local jewellers were that they'd pay me more for my diamond if I designed a new ring with them but not as much if I just sold it to them right out. It's all confusing and I'm not in the habit of buying jewelry to know better. :(

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VirginiaZee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
415
You mentioned you were in Canada, I believe Lisa Elser is as well? Perhaps you might want to reach out to her with your budget and what you're looking for (https://www.facebook.com/CustomCutGems/ is her facebook page, maybe someone else has additional contact information).
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
10,456
Could you tell us more about your preferences in terms of a center stone (e.g. does it have to be a cushion? What size are you hoping for in terms of carat weigh or mm? What's your max price ignoring the trade in factor--so how much can you spend on the sapphire itself?)

Happy to look for you :)
 

Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
7,031
I agree with Lovesdogs. That is a dark stone,I don't consider that medium.

When it comes to sapphires, always verify. Assume heat unless its verified by an independent lab that its not heated. The other part of that is treatments. Some treatments aren't seen with just a microscope. Spending that much on a sapphire I would want to know for sure that heat would be the ONLY treatment there.

That setting is a Leon. Whatever you do, please don't expect your jeweler to be able to create the exact one. Thats a handmade setting which probably cost well over the price of the stone you showed us in the OP. Pull elements that you like about the ring to your own. I think that goes a long way to making the ring yours.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,367
Colour is judged only from the front, so the colour I see on my monitor is dark, not medium. It sounds like the stone has obvious colour zoning, which reduces its value, although I do not see it in your photographs.
 

catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Thanks everyone. Sounds like I should pass on this one and keep looking. I'm looking specifically for what I would consider a royal blue stone, about 3 carats or about 8 mm in size. Some of the ones I've seen on brilliant earth look great and I'd only pay sales tax. But then I can't negotiate with them nor can I tell from their pictures which ones are worth the price they ask. James Allen wouldn't source a stone for me after I didn't find what I liked on their site. I'm also finding it very very difficult to find a local jeweller who knows sapphires.

Here is another blurry picture of it using flash which shows the blue, one of the stone on my hand compared to a sapphire I found too light, and one with the ideal colour I'm seeking.

Who should I speak with in Canada aside from Lisa?

Thanks!

_4248.jpeg

_4249.jpeg

_4250.jpeg
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
20,549
Chrono|1466204311|4045250 said:
Colour is judged only from the front, so the colour I see on my monitor is dark, not medium. It sounds like the stone has obvious colour zoning, which reduces its value, although I do not see it in your photographs.
This.


Out of curiosity, which lab or appraiser did your jeweler use in Toronto?

FWIW--it is a great size!

cheers--Sharon
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Hi again,

It was from a Harvey or Harold Weinstein, I believe. I'm not familiar with them nor do I know if they are jewellers, too.

I'm really set on a cushion cut. My least favourite are rounds and ovals.i was hoping to have the whole ring done for about $6,000, including the diamond side stones but now I'm thinking maybe my budget is too low.

So is brilliant earth not a good supplier?
 

agingsparkle

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
86
I think it will probably be a little light for you, and is in a halo setting, but just in case, jewelsbygrace has a pretty 3 carat cushion set in a white gold halo for just over your 6k finished price...
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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10,456
http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/sapphire-ring-361ct-blue-cushion-cut-sapphire-three-stone-diamond-halo-ring-r616

This one is just SPECTACULAR! But has a halo too, so not sure if you dislike that look. Just something to look at, because DBL's stuff is incredible, and they have 3 stone looks similar to what you're looking for.

If that doesn't appeal to you, maybe look at this semi mount they make. It looks like the style you want, and they would likely be able to source a nice center sapphire stone for you. They make incredible 3-stone rings, so I'd recommend them overall :)

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/semi-mount-ring-fluid-hand-made-three-stone-ring-so3510
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
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Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,118
catou|1466284997|4045502 said:
Hi again,

It was from a Harvey or Harold Weinstein, I believe. I'm not familiar with them nor do I know if they are jewellers, too.

I'm really set on a cushion cut. My least favourite are rounds and ovals.i was hoping to have the whole ring done for about $6,000, including the diamond side stones but now I'm thinking maybe my budget is too low.

So is brilliant earth not a good supplier?
So this is a somewhat nuanced question. I would guess the Leon merge ring you posted will carry a hefty price tag (a completely in-educated guess would be somewhere between 40 k and 100 k). And as other posters have already hinted, concentrating on reproducing it exactly on a 6 k budget (with a 3-4 ct sapphire center stone and matched diamond side stones) may leave you stressed and unhappy. It could be better to concentrate on how great a job you are going to do, finding something which incorporates some of the aspects you really love about this ring (even if it is not identical).

Joe Escobar currently has a ring which is similar to one of your inspiration pics available within your budget

https://www.escobardiamonds.com/rings/2-82ct-cushion-sapphire-pave-halo-split-diamond-r.html

I also think Lovedogs recommendation of daimonds by lauren may work for you.

Alternatively you could get quotes from how much a setting (and side stones) costs from a local jeweler and look at bringing in a stone like this one

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=5697

(it may be possible to get a 15% pricescope discount with this jeweler which may help counteract customs charges; although no one has ever confirmed whether this is the case or not).

I think it is possible to find something you love, just need to add a little imagination :) .
 

catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Chroman- definitely not my kinda blue. I'm not a fan of that almost fluorescent bright blue. It doesn't suit my skin tone. I prefer those royal blue tones, kind of like a bright navy, if that makes sense? I also don't mind if the stone is heated!

Also not into halo settings and sadly it's mostly what is available isn't it?
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
991
catou|1466557423|4046476 said:
prefer those royal blue tones, kind of like a bright navy, if that makes sense? I also don't mind if the stone is heated!
No worries, that makes perfect sense! So often bigger stones get super dark, that it seemed worth checking on your preferred tone.
 

catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Hi everyone,

I've contacted a seller about this stone :)

I will keep you updated of my progress. Thank you for your help!!

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chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,367
As you've probably noticed, for your budget and size requirement, something has to give. The colour you like is the top and most expensive as well. You will most likely have to accept a stone that has significant darkness or extinction.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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10,456
catou|1466869323|4048213 said:

To be perfectly honest I'm not a fan of any of those. What happened with the Roger Dery stone above that you mentioned? The ones you posted above all have problems--either badly cut, overpriced, or with "dishonest" pictures. I would STRONGLY suggest sticking with one of the recommended vendors, because they've been "vetted" and are known to be honest and have good return policies, etc. Did you look at the stones we suggested above? And if so, what about them didnt work? I don't ask to be grumpy about it, I'm asking so we can see what does and doesn't catch your eye so we can find you something good :)
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
991
Yeah, it looks like those stones have finger coverage, but otherwise are kinda meh. I think the James Allen might be my favorite of that bunch, but it looks like it might have a bowtie and a window, and might end up being really dark.
 

catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Hi Lovedogs :)

Actually that Escobar ring without a pave shank is exactly the look I am seeking. The Roger Dery stone is my top pick right now and I just wanted to see if I could find something else to top it, because it is rather pricey. I was hoping that with my diamond ring trade in I could get the job done for $2,000.00 which gives me a budget of about $6,000.00. The issue with buying from the States is that the duties eat into my budget tremendously- to the point where I'd rather spend the $$ on a trip to the US to pick it up and see the sites. :)

The one you suggested from Pearlmans is too rectangular. I'm looking for a square cushion and slightly rectangular is ok with me but not a full out rectangle.

A question for everyone. I was having a conversation with my cousin yesterday and she suggested maybe selling my engagement ring as a whole versus just for the stone was a better idea, and I'd get more for it. So far both jewellers I've visited suggested the platinum shank is only worth scrap. So perhaps if I polished it up to make it shiny it would be better to sell as a whole?

Thank you again!
V.
 

NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
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2,013
You could try selling your ring as a whole, or you could also sell your setting on Loupe Troop, which might get you more than scrap.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,118
I just came here to say, that I think the spectral gems stone is lovely. It would make a great choice.
 

catou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
48
Hi all,

So I'm in the middle of deciding on the spectral gem sapphire. I randomly strolled into a jewellery store yesterday evening and saw this beauty. Owner is willing to reset the sapphire and side cushions for me Ina pave-less shank. What do we think? It's a 2.23 carat stone in a stunning blue!
Now I'm caught between this stone and the spectra, stone. The one I asked about is now no longer on my radar, and was willing to pay me for my diamond trade in :) he also said that he can recycle the platinum in my original wedding band to make the ring, further saving me in costs. What do we think?

Thank you!
Val

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chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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You might find this interesting with regards to recycling platinum / gold into a new ring.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-you-recycle-metal-from-an-old-ring-to-make-a-new-ring.148464/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-you-recycle-metal-from-an-old-ring-to-make-a-new-ring.148464/[/URL]

Look at the sapphire objectively without thought to the trade-in of your diamond. Think of it as a car trade-in when you purchase a new car; it seems like a good deal until you break it down and realize that it's all a numbers game tipped to favour the seller.
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 19, 2013
Messages
2,230
OP- I have nothing to offer, no help, but I do envy by your project. Best of luck, and hope you continue to post updates!


chroman|1466548461|4046429 said:
How do you feel about silky glow? This might be too light or too expensive, but...
http://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-blue-1263
I love this one! I have been visiting the listing to stare regularly for a while now... So I am secretly happy it is not what the op wants.........
 
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