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please help me choose between these two stones

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
i've been researching diamonds for way too long and i'm tired. we need to just pick a stone finally, and with prices continually rising, it's putting the pressure on.

here are two stones i have had a chance to see in person, although both not in the same location and in two TOTALLY different types of lighting. i am not sure if one is going to be a better buy or not. here are the specs:

stone one:
cert1.jpg cert1-1.png

stone two:
cert2.jpg cert2-2.png

one is AGS, one is GIA. i fell in love with a different, larger stone, but BF is saying no :( so i decided to come back down and go with one of these. would you guys say one is better than the other? i looked at the GIA stone through the idealscope and light tests and it is qualified as being hearts and arrows and is beautifully cut. i know the difference is going to be so small in size, but i would like it to face up as large as it possibly can, but if the light performance of the smaller one is going to actually cause the illusion of it to look larger than the 2.34 ct, i'd pick that.

someone help?! both stones are eye clean. i just couldn't tell a color difference because they were in two locations in two different lighting conditions. i could not see the stones side by side, but i CAN get the vendor i am going through to bring them both in to compare to tell me what he thinks. the AGS stone is $220 more than the GIA stone, and i'm wondering why. is it because of the carat weight or the cut being graded as ideal by AGS? i'd just like to finally pick something by this wednesday. any help is appreciated!!!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Both look promising from the numbers.

The AGS stone is much heavier than the GIA stone, the extra $220 actually make it cheaper $/carat wise.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,777
"BF is saying no" Why? More to the point - seems a pity to spend 16k on a stone you don't love...

1. ditto, both fine by the numbers, numbers only tell us so much. any pics? or what did you think when you saw them in-person, compared to other stones?
2. need to see hearts and arrows patterns through H&A scope to judge H&A - can't do w/ IS or naked eye
3. ditto SC re. price - but you won't actually see the size diff btwn those two - esp not once set, and neither will look like a larger stone - would have to be considerably shallower for that, and often that has its own set of pros and cons. AGS0 if DQD report often carries a slight premium.
4. be sure to check if eyeclean to your requirements in various types of light. Confirm wisps aren't affecting real-world brilliance (if they don't look dull compared to stones of higher clarity then they don't look dull, this is not a complicated thing to look for)

definitely have your vendor get them both in, and request his/her opinion - you and he/she are in the best position to judge, being able to actually see the stones...


ETA: nicely proportioned one that faces up bigger for ct weight IMO http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02058661
2.38 J SI2 - 8.72x8.74 - $18.9k
 

speedy0514

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
25
I'd lean towards stone #2, though both look nice provided that they are eye clean - definitely check in several different lighting conditions. The HCA scores are better for #2 as well (scores below). I definitely wouldn't get the lesser cut stone just to gain .06mm in diameter. They both would look the same same size, but #2 could likely have superior light performance. Having seen both of these in person, would you agree? As long as #2 is eye clean, I'd go for that one.

Stone #1
Selected: 62.6% depth, 56% table, 34.7° crown angle, 41.1° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

Stone #2
Selected: 61% depth, 58% table, 34.5° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.4 - Excellent
within TIC range
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
Yssie|1308527111|2949746 said:
"BF is saying no" Why? More to the point - seems a pity to spend 16k on a stone you don't love...
BF says no because the one i fell in love with is $2k more :roll:
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
Yssie|1308527111|2949746 said:
2.38 J SI2 - 8.72x8.74 - $18.9k
yes, over our budget...i fell in love with a 2.46 stone of the same dimensions for about $1k less. BF said no. lol.
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
speedy0514|1308527602|2949747 said:
I'd lean towards stone #2, though both look nice provided that they are eye clean - definitely check in several different lighting conditions. The HCA scores are better for #2 as well (scores below). I definitely wouldn't get the lesser cut stone just to gain .06mm in diameter. They both would look the same same size, but #2 could likely have superior light performance. Having seen both of these in person, would you agree? As long as #2 is eye clean, I'd go for that one.

Stone #1
Selected: 62.6% depth, 56% table, 34.7° crown angle, 41.1° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

Stone #2
Selected: 61% depth, 58% table, 34.5° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.4 - Excellent
within TIC range
yes, i have seen the HCA scores for these, which is another reason why i wasn't sure the 2.34 was the better choice. i guess all i have to do now is get the vendor to get that stone in. they are both in the same city so it wouldn't be hard, he may even be able to get it tomorrow and tell me what he thinks. i saw the 2.23 in "jewelry store lighting" and yes it was beautiful, i saw the 2.34 in regular fluorescent lighting, so it was really hard to see any impressive sparkle. the lighting was actually very bad for me to be able to tell brilliance or fire.
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
and unfortunately i won't be able to go back to see the stones in person before purchasing. i had to take a day off last week to go up to see them and i am unable to do that again :( it was pouring outside when i saw them as well so seeing them in natural sunlight wasn't happening.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
The larger lower half of the AGS stone should compensate for the steeper pavilion, HCA did not that that into account.

It may look slightly different from the GIA stone, if the GIA lower half is in the 78 range and rounded up to 80, which I assume to be so as you say it has well form hearts. 82% lower half will have a significant cleft in the hearts. The arrows will probably be thinner, more splintery than a H&A. Some prefer that look, so don't, personal preference.

Check out GOG, some of their modified H&A has also high HCA score but perform well in other test because of the larger lower half.
 

speedy0514

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2011
Messages
25
boobookitty|1308528016|2949752 said:
speedy0514|1308527602|2949747 said:
I'd lean towards stone #2, though both look nice provided that they are eye clean - definitely check in several different lighting conditions. The HCA scores are better for #2 as well (scores below). I definitely wouldn't get the lesser cut stone just to gain .06mm in diameter. They both would look the same same size, but #2 could likely have superior light performance. Having seen both of these in person, would you agree? As long as #2 is eye clean, I'd go for that one.

Stone #1
Selected: 62.6% depth, 56% table, 34.7° crown angle, 41.1° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.8 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

Stone #2
Selected: 61% depth, 58% table, 34.5° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.4 - Excellent
within TIC range
yes, i have seen the HCA scores for these, which is another reason why i wasn't sure the 2.34 was the better choice. i guess all i have to do now is get the vendor to get that stone in. they are both in the same city so it wouldn't be hard, he may even be able to get it tomorrow and tell me what he thinks. i saw the 2.23 in "jewelry store lighting" and yes it was beautiful, i saw the 2.34 in regular fluorescent lighting, so it was really hard to see any impressive sparkle. the lighting was actually very bad for me to be able to tell brilliance or fire.
I know what you mean. I was having the same problem over the last couple months because each jeweler I visited had a different set of lighting and decor. It makes it almost impossible to make an accurate comparison. Once you get both in front of you, I think the decision will be easy. : ]

If I was choosing between these two stones, I'd probably be focusing on clarity a lot since they are SI2s and so similar in all aspects. I'd want to be absolutely sure both are eye clean from all face up viewing angles before calling clarity a wash. Good luck!

Edit: bummer you can't see these in person! I'm sure the jeweler can be a lot of help over the phone once he gets the other stone in. They should be able to give you and expert opinion.
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
anddd i just checked, that price on stone number two is no longer showing that amount. i literally just pasted copied and pasted that price about an hour or so ago, and it is showing that diamond just rose by $600?! ughhhhh. i don't even see stone 1 on his site anymore...he did say he was holding that one for me. i'm so confused and frustrated at this point :(
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
I'm not even close to being the person you want to talk with about a RB but it sounds to me that you want the largest stone within your budget with superior light performance. It's also my understanding that RB's with amazing light performance hide alot of clarity flaws. Also from lurking around here for a long time and by visiting GOG site, I believe Jonathon at GOG really knows his stuff and would never sell an inferior stone. That being said I came across this, and thought it might be worth taking a look at. It's well within your budget leaving lots room for an amazing setting! :lickout: I would definately get other opinions from all the VERY knowledgable people around here and would also give Jonathon a call to see what this stone is all about....

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8248/

Good Luck and Congrats!! :appl:
 

Lovinggems

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
3,448
Can you chip in the two thousand and get what you want? Is the difference still two thousand with the recent price jump?

The GOG stone linked above, the big inclusion is very apparent...
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
yes, i agree. i really prefer an eye clean stone. thanks for the suggestion though, christina.

and no, unfortunately i can't swing the extra $2k, we are purchasing the stone together as it is. he said if i wanted to pay more for it i could but i can't afford it. so i have to let it go :( it would be the price he quoted me on friday, which is $18200. can't do it :(
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
were you able to determine that these 2 diamonds are eye-clean to your requirements?

also does the jeweler have a return policy in case you get it home and realize it is not eye-clean?
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
I have to say- I understand how you feel about falling in love with the larger more expensive stone- BUT a 2.34 is nothing to sneeze at! You should love your stone, but unfortunately budget always gets in the way. I am sure once you get your stone and fall in love with a setting you will forget about that other stone.
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
i hope so :( i was able to compare the 2.34 an the 2.46 in the same place and the 2.46 had medium fluorescence which made it look a bit whiter and brighter. i think it's all around the better stone, but it's our luck. i wanted to buy 2 months ago but was waiting on a hometown jeweler who told us he could get us something great. famous last words. it's come down to this. honestly getting engaged should be a happy time, but this has given us so much headache that i am just depressed with how much diamond costs have risen over the past 3-4 months. it's just so typical.
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
slg47|1308539005|2949884 said:
were you able to determine that these 2 diamonds are eye-clean to your requirements?

also does the jeweler have a return policy in case you get it home and realize it is not eye-clean?
they do have a 30 day return policy for the diamonds. and they both looked eye clean to me. i looked at both through a loupe, although in totally different lighting conditions.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,777
You sound so thoroughly disenchanted with what really is supposed to be an exciting process :(sad Would you be open to a different track altogether?



Antique diamonds have a different beauty and charm, you might talk to www.oldworlddiamonds.com and www.jewelsbyericagrace.com to start investigating -
*super* shallow 2.22 I VS2 - but I know antiques can be all over the place so maybe it's the needle in the haystack? http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=252&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=44
2.36 K SI1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=1758&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=45

Then there's the coloured diamond world - one regular poster Kenny has a truly mind-boggling collection, you can find his pics if you look through his post history. You might not get size but you can get a very unique stone, which makes for a very unique-looking ring -
I am in love :love: http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/halo-diamond-ring-179ct-old-mine-diamond-cut-for-dbl--handmade-platinum-r3956
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-135-fancy-pinkish-brown-cushion-cool-chunky-color-gia-r3341
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-180ct-radiant-cut-fancy-yellow-vvs2-gia-beautiful-crushed-ice-r3311
 

druidtime

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
44
Yssie|1308542965|2949927 said:
You sound so thoroughly disenchanted with what really is supposed to be an exciting process :(sad Would you be open to a different track altogether?



Antique diamonds have a different beauty and charm, you might talk to www.oldworlddiamonds.com and www.jewelsbyericagrace.com to start investigating -
*super* shallow 2.22 I VS2 - but I know antiques can be all over the place so maybe it's the needle in the haystack? http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=252&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=44
2.36 K SI1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=1758&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=45

Then there's the coloured diamond world - one regular poster Kenny has a truly mind-boggling collection, you can find his pics if you look through his post history. You might not get size but you can get a very unique stone, which makes for a very unique-looking ring -
I am in love :love: http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/halo-diamond-ring-179ct-old-mine-diamond-cut-for-dbl--handmade-platinum-r3956
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-135-fancy-pinkish-brown-cushion-cool-chunky-color-gia-r3341
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-180ct-radiant-cut-fancy-yellow-vvs2-gia-beautiful-crushed-ice-r3311
that pinkish brown would be lovely in rose gold.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,140
boobookitty|1308527690|2949748 said:
Yssie|1308527111|2949746 said:
"BF is saying no" Why? More to the point - seems a pity to spend 16k on a stone you don't love...
BF says no because the one i fell in love with is $2k more :roll:
need to find a new BF... :wink2: :lol:
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
Dancing Fire|1308550233|2949957 said:
boobookitty|1308527690|2949748 said:
Yssie|1308527111|2949746 said:
"BF is saying no" Why? More to the point - seems a pity to spend 16k on a stone you don't love...
BF says no because the one i fell in love with is $2k more :roll:
need to find a new BF... :wink2: :lol:
haha, i see his point but i am not surprised that i fell in love with one of the most expensive ones. it is typical me!
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
Yssie|1308542965|2949927 said:
You sound so thoroughly disenchanted with what really is supposed to be an exciting process :(sad Would you be open to a different track altogether?



Antique diamonds have a different beauty and charm, you might talk to www.oldworlddiamonds.com and www.jewelsbyericagrace.com to start investigating -
*super* shallow 2.22 I VS2 - but I know antiques can be all over the place so maybe it's the needle in the haystack? http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=252&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=44
2.36 K SI1 http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=1758&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=45

Then there's the coloured diamond world - one regular poster Kenny has a truly mind-boggling collection, you can find his pics if you look through his post history. You might not get size but you can get a very unique stone, which makes for a very unique-looking ring -
I am in love :love: http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/halo-diamond-ring-179ct-old-mine-diamond-cut-for-dbl--handmade-platinum-r3956
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-135-fancy-pinkish-brown-cushion-cool-chunky-color-gia-r3341
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-180ct-radiant-cut-fancy-yellow-vvs2-gia-beautiful-crushed-ice-r3311
thank you so much for your suggestions, really, it's very much appreciated, but i want to stay away from EGL, and i just don't think a colored stone is for me :( i wanted to buy 2 months ago but we were waiting on our jeweler :( what a mistake. it's been a race against the clock ever since.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
Are you firm on a RB? I really liked Yssies suggestion. Cushions are beautiul :love: and often less expensive for the same weight as are other fancy cuts. you sound like you have been researching for a very long time, but have you checked out the show me your bling engagement ring thread? I'm not sure what you have selected for a setting but the collection of halos thread is awesome too :lickout:. Perhaps you'll see something that catches your eye other than a RB?
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
thanks everyone for your suggestions, i had the vendor bring in both stones for me. he says it's a real tough choice between the two because they are both comparable in color, and in his opinion he thought the 2.34 was the better value. he says it looks bigger, they both really sparkle, and the price of that stone was going to rise over $17k if i didn't want it. he said there was a guy across the country that wanted the stone but since he offered it to me first he was willing to give it to me for the original price i saw on friday. it was cheaper than the 2.23 (only because of the rise in price and he was willing to give me the 2.34 for the price he quoted on friday, it's current selling price would be more than the 2.23 right now) and the per carat price is literally $17 less than the per carat price than the GIA stone. i don't know, i think i made the better choice...the 2.46 GIA J i fell in love with was barely brighter than the 2.34, and it had medium blue fluoresence. if we ever decide to resell it i guess we could always send it to GIA if that's even necessary, but maybe if our jeweler at home finds us something better and he buys it cheap he would be willing to trade. sounds kinda unlikely but he was supposed to help us, has known we were looking since february, and came up with nothing so we were forced to pay these inflated prices. hopefully he'd feel bad. i think we are still going to have him make the setting. i will post photos once it gets here...hopefully by the end of the week!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,777
boobookitty|1308592311|2950286 said:
thanks everyone for your suggestions, i had the vendor bring in both stones for me. he says it's a real tough choice between the two because they are both comparable in color, and in his opinion he thought the 2.34 was the better value. he says it looks bigger, they both really sparkle, and the price of that stone was going to rise over $17k if i didn't want it. he said there was a guy across the country that wanted the stone but since he offered it to me first he was willing to give it to me for the original price i saw on friday. it was cheaper than the 2.23 (only because of the rise in price and he was willing to give me the 2.34 for the price he quoted on friday, it's current selling price would be more than the 2.23 right now) and the per carat price is literally $17 less than the per carat price than the GIA stone. i don't know, i think i made the better choice...the 2.46 GIA J i fell in love with was barely brighter than the 2.34, and it had medium blue fluoresence. if we ever decide to resell it i guess we could always send it to GIA if that's even necessary, but maybe if our jeweler at home finds us something better and he buys it cheap he would be willing to trade. sounds kinda unlikely but he was supposed to help us, has known we were looking since february, and came up with nothing so we were forced to pay these inflated prices. hopefully he'd feel bad. i think we are still going to have him make the setting. i will post photos once it gets here...hopefully by the end of the week!

So have you chosen the 2.34? I am confused.

If you want an upgrade policy be sure to discuss that w/ him before you pay, and get it in writing. Once he has your money he has little incentive to try and sweeten the deal, afterall!

Good luck w/ the setting process :))
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
Yssie|1308596760|2950360 said:
boobookitty|1308592311|2950286 said:
thanks everyone for your suggestions, i had the vendor bring in both stones for me. he says it's a real tough choice between the two because they are both comparable in color, and in his opinion he thought the 2.34 was the better value. he says it looks bigger, they both really sparkle, and the price of that stone was going to rise over $17k if i didn't want it. he said there was a guy across the country that wanted the stone but since he offered it to me first he was willing to give it to me for the original price i saw on friday. it was cheaper than the 2.23 (only because of the rise in price and he was willing to give me the 2.34 for the price he quoted on friday, it's current selling price would be more than the 2.23 right now) and the per carat price is literally $17 less than the per carat price than the GIA stone. i don't know, i think i made the better choice...the 2.46 GIA J i fell in love with was barely brighter than the 2.34, and it had medium blue fluoresence. if we ever decide to resell it i guess we could always send it to GIA if that's even necessary, but maybe if our jeweler at home finds us something better and he buys it cheap he would be willing to trade. sounds kinda unlikely but he was supposed to help us, has known we were looking since february, and came up with nothing so we were forced to pay these inflated prices. hopefully he'd feel bad. i think we are still going to have him make the setting. i will post photos once it gets here...hopefully by the end of the week!

So have you chosen the 2.34? I am confused.

If you want an upgrade policy be sure to discuss that w/ him before you pay, and get it in writing. Once he has your money he has little incentive to try and sweeten the deal, afterall!

Good luck w/ the setting process :))
yes, we chose the 2.34. he said he thought it was a no brainer for the price considering the 2.23 would cost me more (not willing to give me the price it was before they rose, but he was willing to do that for the 2.34 because that is what he offered it to me for). the 2.23 wasn't even in the picture until i started thinking last night, and then i saw it on his site (i'd seen the actual stone at a jewelry store in totally different lighting) so i asked him if he could get that stone in to compare to the 2.34. i think we made the right choice.

the jeweler who is doing my setting is my hometown jeweler that couldn't find us the right diamond. my family has known him for over 20 years so he may be willing to trade diamonds with us. i know he was willing to do that if we bought from him, to give us 100% back of what we paid for it, but we literally waited 3 months for him to find something and now we've been screwed with the constant price increases of diamonds. i guess it's partly our fault for not biting the bullet sooner, but he kept promising he'd find something. so finally we'd had enough and started looking on our own. if he likes this stone maybe in the future we have an opportunity to upgrade through him. we just don't have the time to wait for that stone to come along. at least now we have something.
 

boobookitty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
38
well she's here and she's beautiful! we are taking it to the jeweler this weekend to start making the custom setting. i think i made a good choice. i am learning how to take pictures of diamonds, obviously not very good at it yet, but here is the stone :)

what do you all think? this is the 2.34 AGS Ideal J, SI2.

diamond1_0.png

diamond2_0.png

diamond3_0.png
 
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