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Please help me choose/advise on a ~1ct Round...

K

KAP1987

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
16
Going to be engaged and my soon to be fiance/wife is already involved with me in selecting what would/should be the perfect stone for us.

It has been an exciting journey learning about round diamonds, however, the more I learn, the more difficult it is becoming to pick a stone. I need some advise on my thought process(i.e. which is accurate and which I am just making up ;-)...).

It started out with me knowing nothing but my budget ~$5k. The budget has only temporarily moved up and then I go back to thinking, it's my first stone so it's better I stay as close to ~$5k. The requirement from the her is that it be a 1 ct. Yes, I know... one of those "size matters" issues. Anyways... 1ct it is.

Requirements set forth by me:

1 - 1.15 ct
I or better (considering Js now)
VS2 or better
3EX
Don't mind fluorescence(should I mind it?)

If I am in dream land with these requirements then don't be shy to let me know so. I am open to all types of advise/criticism.

Couple of stones I am considering(from least expensive to the most expensive):

Choice #1: GIA 1.1 ct., J, VS2, 3EX, Faint Fluorescence (55% table, 61.6%depth, 33.5 CA, 41 PA, 3.5% med to slightly thick (faceted) girdle)

Choice #2: GIA 1.02 ct., J, VVS1, 3EX, No Fluorescence (55% table, 61.6% depth, 35 CA, 40.8 PA, 3% thn to med (faceted) girdle)

Choice #3: GIA 1.1 ct., I, VS2, 3EX, No Fluorescence (56% table, 62.2% depth, 34.5 CA, 40.8 PA, 4% med to sl. thick (faceted) girdle)

Choice #4: GIA 1.17 ct., I, VS2, 3EX, No Fluorescence (56% table, 61.2% depth, 33.5 CA, 41 PA, 3% think to med (faceted) girdle)

Choice 4 is much more expensive. All these stones rated well on HCA but I am not sure how much I should rely on that.

What do you guys think?

Things I need some help to consider:

One thing I want to understand is how important is the girdle? How is it actually measured? Lets consider Choice 1:

Additional measurements: Table to top of girdle is 15% and Culet up to the the bottom of the girdle is 43.5%

What does the 61.6% depth comprise of? (15% + 3.5% + 43.5%)? How come when I add those up, I get 62%?

Is the girdle measurement the smallest part of the girdle or the largest? What am I not considering?

Let's start with this for now. Any input is much appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help.
 
"in for a penny, in for a pound" ...
If she won't be happy with just under 1ct [which in fact may in some cases appear larger than a 1ct] you might as well keep going up. There is a premium at the 1ct mark due to it being a magic number. :lol:
 
I have considered .95 ct to .99 ct... can't really find much. To my knowledge, It usually translates into the guy cutting the diamond screwing up. is that true?
 
KAP1987|1402944549|3694351 said:
I have considered .95 ct to .99 ct... can't really find much. To my knowledge, It usually translates into the guy cutting the diamond screwing up. is that true?
Click to expand...

KAP - that is a interesting way to see it. While it is true that most cutters will try to 'save the carat' when they cut, there are 'artists' out there who will not compromise on cut - they are few and far between - but they exist. So, yes, you will rarely find a .95-.99 that is well cut - but they are out there from time to time. When you find, however, a diamond that is cut really well even a .9 can 'face-up' or appear larger than a diamond that is cut in a mediocre manner at 1 ct.

That said, it may be opening up a huge can of worms to try to convince your fiance that her .92 diamond was the smart choice - diamonds are, after all, a choice of the mind and a choice of the heart. If you believe she will be constantly bothered by a diamond that is not >1ct then you probably need to stick to that mark for her.

The good news is that there are thousand of diamonds available in the 1 - 1.15 size range... and if you can extend your budget even a little bit you can probably find a really nicely cut 1.10 that will 'face-up' as nicely as many 1.2's. Also remember that the GIA XXX rating, while a standard that is acknowledged world-wide, does have a HUGE range of performers that will qualify.

My advice is to shop around, pick three diamonds that you think are great - get ASET photos and full specs (copies of the grading reports if possible) and post them here on the forum - you will end up with great advice and a terrific diamond for your fiance.
 
I am sticking with the 1 ct for the reasons you mentioned above. Additionally, My ~$5k budget can be stretched to as much as ~$6k. Is the jump from J to I worth 1k?

Also, can you comment on my 4 choices, as I have actually seen these stones in person and they have been approved by the Miss.
 
Based on the information provided, #3 would definitely be my choice.

That said, trust your eyes.
 
Thanks. I was thinking the same in terms of value.

Can you elaborate on your understanding of why Choice #1's girdle%, crown%, and pav% don't add up to the total depth%?

Is the Girdle% measures at its smallest measurement or largest? or is the average?
 
The % discrepancy issue is due to rounding.
 
After thinking, I am reluctant to Choose a J. I found a few I options and one H that is in my budget. However, these are all Online options and I am not very fond of purchasing before taking a look at the stone.

In what situations would a color like J show as opposed to.. say an H?

I know it's hard to put together a combination because people have different tastes, but what is the best combo(4Cs) for a 1ct. in terms of best monetary value?
 
Best combo is to go with a stone that is under 1 carat but has the spread of a stone that is 1ct or over. You do this by going for a 'thin' girdle with no painting or digging, no culet, small table (54-55) and a shallow/shallow angle combo (34 CA/40.6 PA) that still has good light performance. Other ways to save is to search for an eye clean SI2 that has inclusions that can be hidden by prongs (I'm a fan of twinning wisps), strong fluorescence as long as the diamond is not hazy, very good polish instead of excellent, and an I or J colour that faces up nicely. And skip hearts and arrows or other 'super ideal' or 'signature' diamonds. You can barely see the arrows pattern in a 1 ct stone anyway.
 
What exactly do you mean when you say "has a spread of a stone that is a 1ct" diamond?
 
How can one determine if there is painting or digging in the girdle?
 
KAP1987 said:
What exactly do you mean when you say "has a spread of a stone that is a 1ct" diamond?
Click to expand...

That means that the diameter is as big or larger than the average well cut 1 ct stone. Carat weight on its own isn't important - what is important is diameter and how large the stone actually looks to the eye. After all, you don't see carat weight...you see size. Unless you want to write '1 ct' on the table of your diamond with a sharpie. :)
 
KAP1987 said:
How can one determine if there is painting or digging in the girdle?
Click to expand...

Generally you need an idealscope and/or ASET to tell this, or extensive proportion info (e.g. helium report). But sometimes you can tell just by looking at the diamond - painted girdles have a distinctive contrast pattern around the periphery of the diamond that is noticeable if you know how to look for it. Sometimes there are 'tells' in the certificate that can make you suspicious as well (e.g. a girdle that is 'thin-slightly thick' makes me very suspicious).

AGS ideals are more likely to have painted girdles than GIA excellent stones.
 
Thanks, that's very helpful.
 
What do you think of this stone?

1.01 ct, H, VS2, 3EX

61.3% D, 56%Tab , CA 34 deg, PA 41 deg, thin to medium girdle (3.5%) No flu
 
KAP1987 said:
What do you think of this stone?

1.01 ct, H, VS2, 3EX

61.3% D, 56%Tab , CA 34 deg, PA 41 deg, thin to medium girdle (3.5%) No flu
Click to expand...

Sounds promising. Do you have pics and a cert?
 
No pictures.
 
metatrix|1403137872|3696145 said:
KAP1987 said:
How can one determine if there is painting or digging in the girdle?
Click to expand...

Generally you need an idealscope and/or ASET to tell this, or extensive proportion info (e.g. helium report). But sometimes you can tell just by looking at the diamond - painted girdles have a distinctive contrast pattern around the periphery of the diamond that is noticeable if you know how to look for it. Sometimes there are 'tells' in the certificate that can make you suspicious as well (e.g. a girdle that is 'thin-slightly thick' makes me very suspicious).

AGS ideals are more likely to have painted girdles than GIA excellent stones.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry too much about a thin - slightly thick measurement for a girdle, many many beautiful and superbly cut diamonds have this value, often with no issues at all, including undesirable issues from brillianteering. Also concerning girdle treatments such as painting ( digging can be deleterious), this can in some cases enhance desirable visual properties with a diamond, it's not always a negative.
 
KAP1987|1403504104|3699025 said:
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite/?childpagename=GIA/Page/ReportCheck&pagename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=1132584807
Click to expand...

Hi Kap,

This diamond definitely does look promising, images would be needed now in order to see how well it all works together, although the numbers are pretty ' safe,' it's no guarantee of a stunning diamond, but the potential is definitely there. See if the seller can get you an ASET or Idealscope image.
 
Hmm.. Perhaps I can obtain that from the vendor. What else would I be looking for specifically to confirm that the diamond will actually look stunning? What if I cannot obtain additional information and have to choose based on the information available to me?
 
Hello Experts:

I bought the diamond linked in my previous post; 1.17ct I VS1 3EX. I made the purchase blindly(no pictures) and need advice on what to look for once it arrives. I am short on time and would like to make the return transaction(if necessary) as quick as possible. I would love it if you guys can provide some input on the diamond itself and what I should be looking for considering the inclusions and strong fluorescence. Thanks in advance. Cheers.
 
Anyone? I just want to know what to look for once it get it..basically how to inspect it... and Where would be the best place to use their tools/services to inspect it?
 
Congrats on the purchase! The numbers look okay, but without an Ideal-Scope or ASET image it's hard to say how it might perform in real life. Remember that GIA cut grades do a lot of rounding, so without images for light performance it's tricky.

The inclusions are right under the table, but if they're honestly VS1 it shouldn't be much of an issue. It depends on what color they are but it shouldn't be visible without magnification.

As far as how to inspect it when it comes in: you can order and use your own Ideal-Scope and ASET if you like (http://www.ideal-scope.com) or can take it to am independent appraiser who has such tools to look at it for you.

Regarding the fluorescence, play with the stone under lots of different lighting conditions. Indoors and outdoors, bright sun and cloudy , multiple light sources versus one, dim indoor under fluorescent, incandescent, LED, etc. if you can to get an idea of how it performs.

Remember that there's no replacing the human eye as an evaluation tool. Ideal-Scope and ASET are good for confirmation, but as you've already purchased it, just take a look yourself and see if you like it. If it sparkles like mad in all sorts of different lighting and you love it, who's to say it's not a good one besides you? :)
 
SirGuy|1404049107|3703196 said:
Congrats on the purchase! The numbers look okay, but without an Ideal-Scope or ASET image it's hard to say how it might perform in real life. Remember that GIA cut grades do a lot of rounding, so without images for light performance it's tricky.

The inclusions are right under the table, but if they're honestly VS1 it shouldn't be much of an issue. It depends on what color they are but it shouldn't be visible without magnification.

As far as how to inspect it when it comes in: you can order and use your own Ideal-Scope and ASET if you like (http://www.ideal-scope.com) or can take it to am independent appraiser who has such tools to look at it for you.

Regarding the fluorescence, play with the stone under lots of different lighting conditions. Indoors and outdoors, bright sun and cloudy , multiple light sources versus one, dim indoor under fluorescent, incandescent, LED, etc. if you can to get an idea of how it performs.

Remember that there's no replacing the human eye as an evaluation tool. Ideal-Scope and ASET are good for confirmation, but as you've already purchased it, just take a look yourself and see if you like it. If it sparkles like mad in all sorts of different lighting and you love it, who's to say it's not a good one besides you? :)
Click to expand...


VERY good post Sir Guy, you are doing some great work here and I like your common sense approach very much!!

Kap, many congratulations on your purchase, I think you did very well! The numbers are good and from what we can tell, it * should* be a great looking diamond. With the SB fluorescence, I think it was Wink that said out of the many SB or VSB fluorescent diamonds he has dealt with over the years, he could count on one hand the ones that showed a detrimental effect such as milkiness. Take the diamond out into strong sunlight and see what happens - enjoy the blue glow :tongue: - and if you see it does go oily or milky looking, take to an independent expert ASAP for advice, but this is unlikely. Or get a UV light to test it yourself or go to the aforementioned independent expert to check it out for you. I don't think you need to worry but it never hurts to check.
 
Thanks for the reply. Very helpful. I might just buy that beginner scope.
 
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