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martina82

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
3
I got the most beautiful diamond ring for valentines day, I went to have it sized and when i went today to pick it up the middle diamond changed colour... it was yellow... the lady said the heat could''ve changed the color.... is this possible? Im confused... She asked me if i wanted to leave it there and speak with the manager tomorrow...

I feel sooo stupid, they are going to be able to talk circles around me because I dont know anything about diamonds.

Please help me.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
I don''t know a lot about diamonds in general, but I HAVE heard of friends being bait and switched at jewelry shops. Further, I have never ever heard of someone''s diamond becoming yellow when having it sized. Sounds very fishy to me...

Did your stone come with a certification? If so, you should be able to tell from the cert whether it is the same stone. Either by looking at the plot of inclusions on the chart and comparing it to your center stone, OR better yet, taking both the certification and the stone to an independent (read: not a store that sells diamonds) appraiser and asking them to tell you if it is the same stone. They''ll be able to grade the color of the stone, and if it is way off your certification you can then take the official paperwork back to the jeweller and call them on it. Worst comes to worst, you could then take it to court.

But if you have no certification...I don''t know what to tell you besides talking to the manager...

Good luck!!!
 

martina82

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
3
all I have is a Diamond UPC number.... I think.... and i dont even know what that means.
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
There have been unscrupulous jewelers who color the stones to make them look whiter.

One treatment is to use gentian violet ( purple mecurichrome sort of). It makes an obvious yellowish stone look colorless, but dissolves with washing/water.

There are other "treatments" to that are temporary. Those who do practice this type of behavior/ conduct like that the evidence dissappears later.

Heating to the point of burning usually turns a diamond white, and has to be repolished.

If the stone was clarity enhanced ( fracture filled ) the filler can disapate with heating.

Rockdoc
 

martina82

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
3
thanks for replying... I do apriciate it!! but Im scratching my head here.... Lamens terms?? lol (sorry)
 

analyticangel

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
33
Question for ROCKDOC

I read your comments to Martina82 and wanted to ask you a follow up based on your answer

You suggested that if a diamond was fracture filled it might later change colors when heated as one possible explanation

Is there a way for either the consumer OR Jeweler to detect with a 10X Loupe if something is fracture filled?

Is it correct that GIA woud never cert a fracture filled stone??

Can the consumer assume that a GIA certified stone purchased through say......Whiteflash, Blue Nile, ERD. Good old Gold, USACert, Union DIamond, James Alllen etc would never be fracture filled and therefore not to worry?

Thanks
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Date: 2/23/2007 9:45:14 PM
Author:martina82
I got the most beautiful diamond ring for valentines day, I went to have it sized and when i went today to pick it up the middle diamond changed colour... it was yellow... the lady said the heat could''ve changed the color.... is this possible? Im confused... She asked me if i wanted to leave it there and speak with the manager tomorrow...

I feel sooo stupid, they are going to be able to talk circles around me because I dont know anything about diamonds.

Please help me.
Hi martina,

I''m sorry you''re having trouble. There really isn''t much anyone can offer, as far as advice. To me, this may be your word against the jewelers. He may offer a reason it appears different, but, diamonds don''t just change color, except maybe in the case Rockdoc said, where when heating the prongs the diamond gets burned, which as he said usually turns it white.

If I were you, I''d wait to see what he says. If it doesn''t jive with you (PLEASE, trust your instincts, they''re wonderfully accurate), either ask for another stone, if he''s willing, or simply return the ring (if you still have time, which I''m thinking you should), and start over with another jeweler or online, if you simply don''t feel comfortable with him.

Above all, stand your ground. If you know this isn''t the same diamond, or the way the diamond looked before you dropped it off, don''t let them sway you otherwise.

Good luck, and let us know what happens!
 

blingless

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
58
Unfortunately one of the US TV news program did a piece on diamond switching in jewelry repair and it seemed to be a fairly common practice. Bring a copy of your certification (not the original) with you when you go to speak to the manager. And let him explain how the yellow diamond matches that cert. I would not take the ring out of the store until I was staisfied with the explanation (not a single one that I could think of) or my stone was returned to the setting. If that fails, then write a demand letter to the agent for service for the store. You can get the information from the secretary of state in your state (assuming you are in the US) . Instructions for this can be found all over the internet. Also if your state has a department of consumer protection contact them via web, letter or phone. They have been incredibly effective and responsive in my state. It will probably be resolved at this point but if not, next step is small claims court if the value is under a few thousand dollars or get an attorney and sue. On the face of it you will prevail because I can''t think of anything that would yellow a white diamond that should be done in the normal course of jewelry repair and even if there was a qualified jeweler would not do it and would be held responsible if they did.

There are at least 5 folks on this board who claim to be lawyers and several experts on every aspect of diamonds and jewelry. I am neither but I''m sure they will help you along the way.

Good luck!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
My advice is to return the ring while you are within the return period. Start over and get a diamonds certified by GIA or AGS.
 

tanalasta

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
323
Don''t accept delivery of the ring e.g. take it with you ... but leave it with the store - until you have sorted this out.

RockDoc have explained some reasons for changing colour.

There are two main reasons:
1. Treatments which have been removed by cleaning - in which case it was the diamond seller/original jeweller who got the better of you.
2. The ring sizer switched your diamond.

Questions are:
1. Do you have an independent appraisal of the ring including the diamond specifications and/or certificate to confirm the stone? No two diamonds are the same.
2. Where is the diamond certified? Is the certificate number or other identifying marks inscribed on the girdle?

A potential scenario is:
If the diamond set in the original ring has a certificate with a plotting diagram, the next course of action would be to tell the ring sizer that the diamond looks different to you. Ask him why? If you''re not satisfied - You want HIM to send it to an individual appraiser of your choice (or gemstone laboratory) to confirm that the stone in the ring is the one that matches the original certificate. If it is different, inform him he will be responsible for both the costs and potential legal/criminal proceedings. If it is the same, you will apologise and pay for the cost of the appraisal.

Of course, if he ''did'' switch them ... he may then switch it back... *sighs* before sending it off. So don''t leave the ring/store until it is sorted... and try not to let the ring leave your sight.

Not a nice situation overall.
 

widget

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
4,255
Date: 2/23/2007 10:00:53 PM
Author: neatfreak
I don''t know a lot about diamonds in general, but I HAVE heard of friends being bait and switched at jewelry shops. Further, I have never ever heard of someone''s diamond becoming yellow when having it sized. Sounds very fishy to me...
Not being an expert, I can only reiterate this sentiment.

Hang tough and hold your ground. Report back as to what the manager says, and maybe some experts can give you further helpful input..

widget
 

ladykemma

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
2,194
this has also happened. the settings in the display case may have been set with CZs. when she ordered the ring, she got a real yet (crappy) diamond in the setting.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
I got the impression she was given the ring, and then took it in, but I could be wrong.
 

Unearthed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
103
First off I hope (please) that you made your purchase with a credit card. As a retail manager I can tell you that when a customer contacts their credit card company with a story such as this...they very much act in favor of the consumer and they are not fun to deal with. I''ve actually had pruchases over 7k charged back when in all honesty, they should not have been. My first step would be to go back to the jeweler and explain to him that you think something is fishy and you are not happy and are not taking the ring. From there see what if says, if he gives you any sort of excuse etc... just explain you are going to pursue other measures to rectify the situation. Call your card company and explain what happend. If you used an American Express they will most likely purchase the store, liquidate it, and give you all the profit...they are bastards when it comes to this kind of thing (In the consumers favor).
 

blingless

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
58
Unearthed based on your post I''m going to apply today for an Amex card. I''ve had to reverse some charges on Visa and they were helpful but you''ve sold me on Amex. lol

By the way, nice pic....you make a cute couple.
 

Unearthed

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
103
Date: 2/24/2007 11:48:43 AM
Author: blingless
By the way, nice pic....you make a cute couple.
Thanks


As for Amex. I no longer will allow purchases over the phone by customers using an Amex. If a customer calls to attempt a chargeback, the first thing they do is ask for the customers signature. If I can''t produce one, and I didn''t call for their special auth code...I lose the money. Another Amex tale: My mother once bought a custom sewn dress for my sister. When they got it, the material was see-through. Well, the merchant would not take it back because it was custom made. She called Amex and they actually gave the merchant the amount of the dress so they would refund my mother the money. So bascially Amex bought the dress...which was never worn. I''m pretty sure this type of service only applies to their regular cards and higher...not the Blue and others they have released which allow a balance to be carried.
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
Date: 2/24/2007 8:06:45 AM
Author: analyticangel
Question for ROCKDOC

I read your comments to Martina82 and wanted to ask you a follow up based on your answer

You suggested that if a diamond was fracture filled it might later change colors when heated as one possible explanation

Is there a way for either the consumer OR Jeweler to detect with a 10X Loupe if something is fracture filled?

Is it correct that GIA woud never cert a fracture filled stone??

Can the consumer assume that a GIA certified stone purchased through say......Whiteflash, Blue Nile, ERD. Good old Gold, USACert, Union DIamond, James Alllen etc would never be fracture filled and therefore not to worry?

Thanks
As far as GIA and AGS lab reports are concerned they would not grade a clarity enhanced diamond.

The risk of getting a clarity enhanced treated stone needless to say is when the seller doesn''t disclose it was treated, and the stone does NOT have a GIA/ AGS grading report. EGL will grade them but they indicate the treatment on the report. Not totally sure what IGI does, but I am assuming it is similar to what EGL does.

As far as DIY examination of Fracture Filling, it''s doubtful. Some treaters make the treatment obvious by putting in a dopant to cause a flash color in the stone. Others don''t so the ID of them is not in the consumer realm of DIY.

A person experienced in seeing these treatments SHOULD be able to detect it, especially on the ones that have the dopant added. But there are some older stones that it is not that obvious in.

Rockdoc
 

Modified Brilliant

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
1,481
Date: 2/24/2007 8:38:50 AM
Author: blingless
Unfortunately one of the US TV news program did a piece on diamond switching in jewelry repair and it seemed to be a fairly common practice. Bring a copy of your certification (not the original) with you when you go to speak to the manager. And let him explain how the yellow diamond matches that cert. I would not take the ring out of the store until I was staisfied with the explanation (not a single one that I could think of) or my stone was returned to the setting. If that fails, then write a demand letter to the agent for service for the store. You can get the information from the secretary of state in your state (assuming you are in the US) . Instructions for this can be found all over the internet. Also if your state has a department of consumer protection contact them via web, letter or phone. They have been incredibly effective and responsive in my state. It will probably be resolved at this point but if not, next step is small claims court if the value is under a few thousand dollars or get an attorney and sue. On the face of it you will prevail because I can''t think of anything that would yellow a white diamond that should be done in the normal course of jewelry repair and even if there was a qualified jeweler would not do it and would be held responsible if they did.

There are at least 5 folks on this board who claim to be lawyers and several experts on every aspect of diamonds and jewelry. I am neither but I''m sure they will help you along the way.

Good luck!
Sorry, don''t agree that this is a common practice. Sensationalism in journalism.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 
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