Please help find a center stone!

[mswaffle]

Hi everyone, I'm in the market looking for a stone that's at least 1.5ct, best cut possible, color J or above and eyeclean clarity. Hard budget is 12k including setting (solitaire setting with paves). I have the following stone put on hold for me right now so I need major help from everyone on this forum with evaluating it. I originally was a little concerned about the strong blue fluorescence but after watching more videos and also seeing the stone in person, I don't think it's really a problem for me anymore. Now i'm just a little unsure of its side view color (J after all even though it faces up white enough on its own for me to not notice anything). Is it possible to cover most of the color up so it's not visible when wearing on the hand? Most importantly, what do you all think of this stone? The ask is < 11k. Thank you so much!!

Carat: 1.85
Color: J
Clarity: VS1
Cut: AGS0
Fluorescence: Strong Blue

 

[Matthews1127]

I can't find anything wrong with it. Fluorescence is true preference & if it doesn't bother you, and you love the stone, then I'd say go for it! It's an ideal Cut Diamond. Cut is King, and her clarity is on point! It's a great find!!!

 

[ac117]

A beautiful contender! A very nice size for the price. My only hesitation would be...is this for you or someone else? If this is for someone else, are you sure they are ok with the J color? People usually start to see tint in I colored stones, especially from the side.

 

[rockysalamander]

"Now i'm just a little unsure of its side view color (J after all even though it faces up white enough on its own for me to not notice anything). Is it possible to cover most of the color up so it's not visible when wearing on the hand? "

If you want to avoid/eliminate a side view you can bezel set the stone or use prongs and details that block an easy side view. A low set halo can also work. Keep in mind if you want the wedding band to be flush or not, as that will change some of the details of the setting.

So, the setting on the right provides a more direct view of the side of the stone. The one on the left less because of the prong and the detail in the gallery.



Halo on Right makes seeing the side of the stone more difficult as the stone is lower in the setting (ignore that the whole head is lower). Also, the if the halo stones lean away from the setting, that makes is harder for the eye to see the side.


You can also bezel-set the main stone in a halo but leave the halo stone prong or pave set.

 

[mswaffle]

Thank you both Matthews1127 and ac117 for replying! It is for me (the man lets me drive the show here ). Yeah I did compare this diamond next to a G in real life. Facing up, they both looked very white and similar. But when you turn them sideways against a white piece of paper, the yellow tinge in J's body was surprisingly obvious to me (I didn't think I was color sensitive at all, not to mention yellow is my favorite color!)... I do feel like with the cut/carat/clarity, the price is really good (please correct me if I'm wrong!). So I'm thinking maybe I can somehow find a setting that strategically hides most of the diamond from the side ... is that possible?

 

[mswaffle]

Hi thank you so much rockysalamander for all the setting ideas!! I think I should stick with solitaire just because 1.85 is enough coverage for my 4.5 size finger.. don't want to be tooo flashy at work ha but yeah halo would definitely help hide the side view of the diamond.. I think I should maybe explore different prong designs??

 

[rockysalamander]

Also, if you set the stone in rose, peach or yellow gold, you will see less color overall. There is less contrast for the eye to see. You can also do mixed metal.

Examples of mixed metal and gallery details

 

[rockysalamander]

Hi thank you so much rockysalamander for all the setting ideas!! I think I should stick with solitaire just because 1.85 is enough coverage for my 4.5 size finger.. don't want to be tooo flashy at work ha but yeah halo would definitely help hide the side view of the diamond.. I think I should maybe explore different prong designs??

Are there any ring you like? Vintage or modern? If we can start with a few settings you like, that will give us some direction to help you find a setting that will achieve the side-view blocking goal.

 

[mswaffle]

I generally like classic and simple designs in things so I always thought that I'd choose the 6 prong tiffany setting. I think I'm just a little surprised how much body warmth I saw in the diamond so now I'm unsure if the simple 6 prong design could effectively cover up most of the color from the side...

I will go see the stone again in a week and will probably need to make a decision on that visit. So in the next 6-7 days I'm trying to decide

1) if this is a great deal of a diamond for my budget and requirements, and
2) if it is, how I'm going to set it to not let the side view warm color be a problem for me when I'm really wearing it every day.

 

[mswaffle]

I may be overreacting here but I was just browsing PS threads on how to set I/J stones earlier when I came across quite a few posts that suggest "AGS color grade is usually softer than GIA color grade, if not 1 grade lower than GIA".. This is really worrying me now. Maybe the diamond I have on hold is a low J / actually K by GIA standards?? Should I have an independent appraiser look at it before committing to buying it? Can someone please chime in on the possibility of color being graded higher by AGS .. ?
This is the link to the 360 degree video

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.85-carat-j-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-3240191

 

[rockysalamander]

Up until very recently, most would consider GIA tougher on color and AGS tougher on clarity. Of late, some have reported some softening on color at GIA (see https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-vs-gia-color-grades.158302/) . Most people use the GIA master set to 'tune' their eyes either because they own them, have access to them or have seen enough diamond to know how GIA would grade the stone. Also, keep in mind that diamonds are graded upside down. So, when we say you can see "tint" from the side, it is because the side color is more revealing of a stone's color grade -- since all the sparkle form the top contracts your pupils making is harder to see color (as it does from the top).

The J you selected will be a warmer white (not blue white) from the top. It will look like a J from the side for anyone looking. Most people can 'see' tint from I or under. But, it is a great size and has good performance. If you wanted a higher color, you'd have to bend on some other C (color, clarity, carat, cost), but if you like the J in person, I thing you found a good one. Can you visit some stores and look at J color GIA or AGS stones? Your eyes will be the best judge of your personal color tolerance.

Thread with lots of Js, many compared to other colors. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/j-color-diamonds-can-i-see.148778/

 

[rockysalamander]

If you are looking at setting from JA, like the stone, these have some detail in the gallery.

https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...ench-cut-six-prong-engagement-ring-item-49518
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...ellis-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-item-50130
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...old-scalloped-pave-engagement-ring-item-53051
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...agement-ring-style-cl108-by-danhov-item-58080

 

[Akalahab]

What about this one with strong blue? https://loupetroop.com/listings/rings/gia-1-dot-51-j-si1-vsbf

 

[mswaffle]

Up until very recently, most would consider GIA tougher on color and AGS tougher on clarity. Of late, some have reported some softening on color at GIA (see https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-vs-gia-color-grades.158302/) . Most people use the GIA master set to 'tune' their eyes either because they own them, have access to them or have seen enough diamond to know how GIA would grade the stone. Also, keep in mind that diamonds are graded upside down. So, when we say you can see "tint" from the side, it is because the side color is more revealing of a stone's color grade -- since all the sparkle form the top contracts your pupils making is harder to see color (as it does from the top).

The J you selected will be a warmer white (not blue white) from the top. It will look like a J from the side for anyone looking. Most people can 'see' tint from I or under. But, it is a great size and has good performance. If you wanted a higher color, you'd have to bend on some other C (color, clarity, carat, cost), but if you like the J in person, I thing you found a good one. Can you visit some stores and look at J color GIA or AGS stones? Your eyes will be the best judge of your personal color tolerance.

Thread with lots of Js, many compared to other colors. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/j-color-diamonds-can-i-see.148778/

Thank you so much for the detailed reply! I understand at the end of the day, color is a very personal and subjective trait. I will have to make my own decision on it. I will go back to see this diamond this weekend and hopefully some GIA I and J diamonds for comparison and go from there. Re settings, I like the scallop one you picked out. I'm gonna try to play with a lot of different settings this weekend too so I can have a better idea if J would work at all.

We did take this J stone out to the street to see how it would look under natural sunlight. It was unfortunately more cloudy than not, but we managed to find a crack in the clouds where the sun was shining onto the street so I looked at the stone in that lighting. I didn't see any unusually strong blue hue at all... I'm not sure if I just don't know what to look for... I work in a large office with white fluorescent light, would that make a strong blue fluorescent J diamond look yellow / blue / white / or ? Also, one more question... is it usually recommended to have an independent appraiser appraise the diamond before or after it's mounted ?

 

[rockysalamander]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply! I understand at the end of the day, color is a very personal and subjective trait. I will have to make my own decision on it. I will go back to see this diamond this weekend and hopefully some GIA I and J diamonds for comparison and go from there. Re settings, I like the scallop one you picked out. I'm gonna try to play with a lot of different settings this weekend too so I can have a better idea if J would work at all.

We did take this J stone out to the street to see how it would look under natural sunlight. It was unfortunately more cloudy than not, but we managed to find a crack in the clouds where the sun was shining onto the street so I looked at the stone in that lighting. I didn't see any unusually strong blue hue at all... I'm not sure if I just don't know what to look for... I work in a large office with white fluorescent light, would that make a strong blue fluorescent J diamond look yellow / blue / white / or ? Also, one more question... is it usually recommended to have an independent appraiser appraise the diamond before or after it's mounted ?

It can take quite a bit of UV to get the stone to turn blue, especially if your eyes are experiencing the same light. In my experience, you mostly need a strong black light. Under sunlight, the slight blue can boost the perception of the color. A J with strong blue florescence is a good thing. Under strong natural sunlight, you might see a bit of blue (but the same light tends to make the diamond flat, so it is easier to see anyway). Most indoor lighting is too weak to see the color (or you'd be getting a sun tan in that office!).

For a J color diamond, I would personally prefer strong blue provided no milkiness (which yours does not have). I also love the effect and would seek it out and probably put a UV lamp over my desk to get to see it more (but, I'm admittedly a total nerd).

To me, I'd not worry about the florescence, but look at the stone in your typical environment and with a similar setting. I think the question is not if you can "see" color in the stone, but if the "seeing" will bother you. For the size, this is a great price and a good performer. So, have a look and see how you feel.

Not from JA, but a few other setting that more decorative and vintage inspired baskets.
http://www.erikawinters.com/Engagement-Rings-Margot-Solitaire.html#.WaWGjMh97cs
https://www.etsy.com/listing/480903838/cvb-victorian-inspired-olivia-eight?ref=shop_home_active_15
https://www.etsy.com/listing/237538848/cvb-dahlia-solitaire-setting?ref=shop_home_active_39

Threads with pics.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ng-fluorescence-because-its-beautiful.141942/
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads...uorescence-in-your-diamond-here.438941/page-4
https://www.diamondreview.com/forum...rescence-on-a-g-color-diamondshould-i-buy-it/


(from http://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-4cs/color/diamond-fluorescence-good-bad/)

 

[rockysalamander]

"...is it usually recommended to have an independent appraiser appraise the diamond before or after it's mounted."

If you wish to have an independent gemologist confirm that the stone matches the certification, do that unmounted. Note, this is not an appraisal. You don't need one. You are looking to have a GIA/AGS gemologist simply confirm that the stone and certification match (if the stone is laser-inscribed, you can look yourself under magnification. I find 40x easiest). I was charged $50 for this service per stone for GIA certified old cuts. The gemologist will check the clarity plot, weight, and measurements and be sure they are the same as the certification. They will also check for damage or anything concerning about the condition relative to the cert. and how the stone was represented to you (e.g., if the girdle is chipped and you were not told this by the seller).

Otherwise, you shouldn't need an independent appraisal on the diamond. For insurance, you would use your bill of sale and insure for actual replacement value = actual purchase price. If you had bought a pre-loved stone, vintage diamond, or something as a deep discount -- an appraisal might be necessary to reflect the replacement value. After the stone is set, you add insurance coverage for the value of the setting plus a bit for labor.