Please help again.. Only have a couple hours

[hawaii_justine]

Hi. I really need some help. I just recently joined and asked a question about a whiteflash diamond I was looking at. It is a square radiant cut.

Radiant 1.03 I VS2 GIA 59.5 61 6.14-6.03x3.59 m-tk no gd gd no

Well I got back a lot of great advice and really appreciated it. I have not yet decided on this diamond. I have to decide today. The problem is I have a jeweler here in Hawaii who I had been talking with. I looked at a square 1.0 carat that he had and I liked it.

Radaint 1.0 I S1I GIA 5.75x5.52x3.65mm Depth 65.5% Table: 77% Girdle: VBery thick Flourescence: Non Polish very good, symmetry very good

So what happened is that he called me today and said that he was willing to go down in price on the diamond he has but that is still about $500.00 more then the whiteflash diamond. So I emailed him the specs on the whiteflash diamond to see what he thought of it since it was cheaper then the one he is trying to sell me. The question I have is that he told me the whiteflash diamond will have a fisheye effect to iut. He said that the diamond has a large table and a short depth. He said this will cause the fish eye which will be darker in the middle and have white edge. He said this is not a good thing.

I have to decide in the next couple of hours what I want to do. I do not know what to do. The jeweler here is willing to do the whole ring I want for $3500.00. The diamond will be 1.0 and the setting will be platinum with channel set .05 sapphire, .05 diamond, .05 sapphire, and .05 diamond. The setting is 4.0mm wide. Do you think this is a good deal? Do you think he may just trying to pressure me into buying his diamond? What is a fish eye effect? Is it bad? Please help. I truly appreciate any and all advice.

 

[Mikesgirl]

I will preface this with the fact that I know almost nothing about radiant cuts. What I do notice in your numbers, though, is:

1. - white flash stone is m-th girdle
- second stone is very thick girdle (usually means you are paying for weight you cannot see)

2. - white flash stone measures 6.14-6.03x3.59
- second stone measures 5.75x5.52x3.65mm much smaller in surface dimensions, with more depth (this is the thicker girdle, I'll bet)

3. - the white flash stone is significantly larger for only .03 carats more (and less $).

4. - the white flash stone has a higher clarity, why would you consider paying more for a lesser stone, all around?

I think the jeweler is trying to bamboozle you with technospeak about the fisheye effect. Although that can happen (do a search for fisheye, if you want the details) his stone is the one with the big fat table on it. Is it really 77%? HUGE.


You can return the stone to white flash if it isn't appealing to you, but I'd be suprised if they'd sell a stone that has a fisheye effect. They are very reputable and familiar with the pickiness of online buyers. I think the jeweler knows that once you've seen the Whiteflash stone, he hasn't got a hope in hades of selling you.

GO FOR THE WHITE FLASH STONE! PS - my stone is not from whiteflash, and I have nothing to gain from recommending this.

 

[valeria101]

Well, I have no idea what the guy ment, but 'fish eye' describes a 'see through' center spot aparent on VERY shallow (usually below 50%) round-ish cuts mainly in colored gems. It may be that the jeweler wanted to refer to the same thing people call 'light leak-age' in diamonds (neither of the stones would have it badly). Neither the depth or the table in question are extreme measures. Bottom line: I doubt you would ever be able to find any 'see through' zone in any of the two diamonds, and I am sure that this cannot be an issue. Just imagine how large can possibly be such a hypothetical 'fish eye' in a stone which is already a bit over 5mm big? In some oddity of a stone with 20% depth, the 'window' (another name for this fabled 'fish eye') could actually 'cover' most of the surface, but in a 60% deep stone? No way! I think you should spend that price difference otherwise. Now, just to be polite, I must add that I am not an insurance company. However, I bet that the respective jeweler does not have a 'return' policy or a range of stones to let you choose or demonstrate what the 'fish eye' looks like. This is an important expenditure, and that is aggressive marketing... I believe.

You should be allowed and given time to choose. There are so many diamond deals out there!

 

[hawaii_justine]

One more question, just talked with whiteflash Bob and he said that radiants do not have fish eye effect. Does anyone know anything about the fisheye?

 

[Mikesgirl]

Get Richard Sherwood's attention - he can feedback on this. (as can Cut Rock, Rhino and probably several others). All in all though, I think Bob at Whiteflash knows you are on this forum, and wouldn't risk misleading you. He knows we are ALL WATCHING!

 

[Hest88]

----------------

Radiant 1.03 I VS2 GIA 59.5 61 6.14-6.03x3.59 m-tk no gd gd no

Radaint 1.0 I S1I GIA 5.75x5.52x3.65mm Depth 65.5% Table: 77% Girdle: VBery thick Flourescence: Non Polish very good, symmetry very good


He said that the diamond has a large table and a short depth.

----------------

Uh, am I interpreting this correctly, 'cause from what I see his table is much larger than the Whiteflash one.

 

[hawaii_justine]

Yes the whiteflash diamond does have a smaller table 61%.

How would I get a hold of certain mebers to ask their opinion, do I just wait to see if they respond to this post?

Thank you , Justine

 

[Mara]

that guy is totally fleecing you!




go to www.gemappraisers.com and plug in the #s for the new stone on the DIY cut grader. I think I mentioned this to you last post as well. You can see for yourself how that one scores. That table is HUGE...sounds like he is talking about his own stone being crappy instead of the whiteflash one.




I plugged the new stone info into the DIY and it gave the table a 4A..*REALLY BAD*. Your original stone had something like a 1B I think for the table and a 2A or similar for the depth. Much better from a # perspective. If Bob from WF says that this stone will not have a fisheye (actually I do think he is right in saying that radiants dont have fisheyes..maybe only rounds?)--I would trust his opinion over some random offline jeweler who is selling you an SI1 for MORE money and it will visually LOOK smaller. Plus his table is huge and he is telling you that the WF stone has a huge table? Is he completely idiotic?




Jeez...jewelers like this drive me insane! No wonder people end up with crappy stones by being ignorant! Tell this jeweler that you're not an idiot and he lost your sale to an online jeweler who didn't lie. Oooh.

 

[canadiangrrl]

Justine, Mara's right. I know almost zilch about fancies, but I know the table on the one your jeweler is recommending is nowhere near in the ideal range.

You can reach anyone on this board by going to their profile and PM'ing them. You might want to get another professional opinion if you need to make a decision in the very near future.

Bob at Whiteflash won't steer you wrong - and besides, if you don't like the stone, you can always return it - WF has a good return policy. And I've never bought anything from them, either, but their good rep precedes them.

 

[hawaii_justine]

Thank you Thank you Thank you. I appreciate all of your help so much. I don't know what I would do if I wasn't able to have this forum to go to.

Mara, I really want to thank you for your help, both with this psot and my previous. You wrote exactly what I was feeling with this guy trying to pull one over on me. I am defintely going to tell him that I am not an idiot and he lost the sale to an online jeweler who didn't lie. I too plugged in the numbers on the gemappriasers site you told me about early and was shocked to see the results. I feel like everything he was telling me about the whiteflash diamond was actually about his diamond.

I am so happy that each of you pointed out things that I previously had never thought of, such as the table being bigger and the thickness of the girdle.

Thank you.

 

[Mikesgirl]

Hey, Justine - check with whiteflash - they might be willing to ship the stone to an appraiser before selling it to you. Richard Sherwood and Dave Atlas are appraisers who both contribute to this forum frequently, and both have great reputations. Good luck - glad you found us.

 

[Mara]

good luck and let us know what happens. I also think that WF will ship a stone an appraiser before purchase--but you have to pay the shipping etc etc.....if its a local appraiser then you can see the stone.

 

[Giangi]

#1 looks nicer, but may be a bit shallow... Be sure to ask for pictures...

The local jeweler is a crook. And idiot.

77% table and very thick girdle?

 

[hawaii_justine]

Hi Everyone. I just wanted to say thank you again for all the great advice and help. You each made me feel so much more confident in the diamond buying process.

Well I just wanted to give a short update to my situation. After reading all of your advice I decided to go with the diamond from Whiteflash. Right now it is on its way to them for them to look it over. Hopefully it will turn out to be beautiful. I am so excited. I will also be able to get the crown numbers tomorrow.

Also, I spoke with the jeweler here in my town yesterday to tell him that I was going to go with the Whiteflash diamond. He was very short with me on the phone and just said oh fine okay. Then this morning he called me again and asked if we were for sure going to order the Whiteflash. I said yes that we had already started the process. He then told me that I was taking a really big chance buying that diamond because I would not be getting a truthful picture of what the diamond looked like by buying online. He said that the cut would be the most important aspect of the diamond, that it could determine a great diamond from a dull one. I said that I have a refund period with Whiteflash and that I would be getting it appraised. he said that many appraisers do not usually look at the cut. Is that true? He said that they only determine the price and confirm the cert. He told me that this diamond with the price was too good to be true and that it will probably not be a sparkly diamond and instead look dead. I feel that he is upset because I did not go with him and is just trying to get me to go with him. He followed up all this by telling me that his diamond was still available but if I waited till Friday it would not be.

Anyways, thank you all again. I am anxiously awaiting hearing from Bob, hopefully I will know about it tomorrow.

Justine

 

[aljdewey]

Justine: The local jeweler is full of what makes the grass grow, and you should not take seriously ANYTHING he says.




He's just pouting because his ignorance cost him a sale, and now he's trying to SCARE you into reversing what was a smart decision on your part.




I'm sure your diamond from WF will be stunning and will meet muster with your appraiser. FYI, your appraiser will do a FULL appraisal if you specify that's what you want. Do a search, you'll find there are several levels of appraisal services. One of them is just to check that the stone matches the cert, and that usually runs about $30-40. A full appraisal including assessments of cut/clarity/color typically run between $125-150, but is well worth the investment.




Bottom line: you can return the diamond if it isn't everything WF claims it is, but I'm fairly confident from the many happy customers here that you won't have to do that. WF has an excellent reputation.....and is far more truthful and ethical than your local jeweler, it seems.




Don't look back, and don't give that yutz another minute of consideration.

 

[Mara]

yes most independent appraisers worth their salt will take a loose stone and give you the full workup on it if that is what you want. if you just want them to grade the color and clarity it is one thing, but if you want them to do the entire thing, tell them. if they have an idealscope even better, then you can see light return and leakage under the scope for yourself.




i definitely agree that this guy is just pulling your leg..he's upset he lost your sale, and hoping he can still sway you. you are a much better person than me, because i would tell him to take his diamond and shove it and also maybe for him to GET A CLUE and stop bothering me with his lies--i have better things to do! (like think about the cool setting for my new non-crappy stone)

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Looks like you got a lot of good advice here, Justine, and made the right decision.

The stone from WhiteFlash is most likely gorgeous. It's specs certainly outperform the other one by far.

 

[Mikesgirl]

Hey Justine, after it's set, post some pics.

 

[hawaii_justine]

Thank you all agian. I am so excited the diamond has reached Whiteflash and they will be running a sarin report on it this afternoon, so I should know some more information about the diamond soon to get a better picture of it.

I am now going to start working on the perfect setting so I may have to ask for your alls advice once again when I start to work on that. I will defintely post pictures of the diamond as soon as I receive it which should hopefully be Friday.

Thank you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hawaii_justine]

Well I got great news from Bob at Whiteflash. He told me that the stone is beautiful and that I will be very happy. Needless to say I am so happy and can't wait to get it in my hands.

He was able to email me pictures, sarin report, and the GIA cert. I am having trouble uploading them onto this thread but I wish I could so that I could show you all what it looks like. I have put some of the numbers here. If anyone has any advice on it I would really appreciate it.

Square Radiant cut
Carat: 1.03
Crown Angle: 31.0
Crown Height: .71mm 11.8%
Pavillion depth:2.49 41.3%
Girdle: 3.2%
Cutlet Off Center: .05mm
Table Off Center: .02mm
Table Off Cutlet: .06mm

I put the numbers into the gemappriasers.com DIY calculator and it gave the stone an overall rating of 2A, is this good? I thought it was.

Do you think that these numbers look good? Any advice would be so helpful as you each have already helped me so much. Thank you

 

[Mara]

2A is great....lovely! To attach pictures click on 'attach file' then surf your computer (if you save files to desktop from email makes it easier to find), and attach them. They need to be smaller than 70KB and in gif or jpg format...but you should be fine. Maybe Bob can post them here too, he frequents this board.




Congrats!

 

[hawaii_justine]

Okay so I was able to upload one picture. I will try with the others.

Justine

 

[hawaii_justine]

Here is another one...

 

[hawaii_justine]

One more. I am having problems with the sarion report

 

[Richard Sherwood]

2A is a very good ranking for a square radiant cut. You don't see too many with a higher AGA Cut Class ranking than that.

You also don't see many radiant cuts with as fine an idealscope image as you've got there. That is very good light return for a radiant cut.

Nice crown height as well. That will help alot in the "fire" (colored light return) department.

Looks like an exciting stone.

 

[dimonbob]

Brian gets all the credit for taking those pictures. He won't let me near his camera. I just helped Justine find the right diamond. This one is Yummy. You should see the ring she has planned for this diamond.

 

[Hest88]

Ah, that's a nice looking radiant, and I don't even *like* radiants! I think you're going to be really happy with this one.

 

[Mara]

wow those pictures are beautiful!!! the idealscope image is really good as well...esp for a radiant! absolutely lovely. i would LOVE for you to send those to that horrible jeweler who wants to sell you that crappy stone and say...does your stone look like this? you will have to go in and show him your great new ring after it's set..HAH.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/7/2003 8:32:40 PM aljdewey wrote:


Justine: The local jeweler is full of what makes the grass grow, and you should not take seriously ANYTHING he says.


DIV>----------------

I think it's more like fishy about the fisheye. What a crock this guy is. Makes me wonder how many people don't come here & listen to someone like that. I'm all in support of B&M stores; but, this guy gives them a bad rep.

Catching up reading this thread. I love happy endings. Report back when you get the stone.

 

[Giangi]

What a beauty!!!!!!!!!!

Believe me, I don't like radiants that much but this one is truly gorgeous!!!

The idealscope image is verrrrrrrrrry nice too!