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Please help a Rough Rock - one week left!

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Pelican_Racing

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Messages
6
Hi Everyone,

I''m hoping some of the diamond experts can chime in here. Everyone''s opinion is valued though. This is my first post so please be kind.

I''ve been looking for an engagement ring for my girlfriend for a few months now. I want to propose on a trip to Hawaii. May not be an original idea, but I''m sure it will be a surprise. We leave next Sunday.

I have a limited budget, but I think I found something that will work. It is from a private seller so I do have some questions. First the specs;

The characteristics of this diamond as described in its GIA Certificate are:

Shape: Round Brilliant
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VS1
Weight: 1.00 Carat
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Culet: None
Measurements: 6.50 - 6.53 - 3.96 mm
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Depth: 60.8%
Table: 56%

There is also a small sticker labeled "SARIN" which I understand to be another set of tests;

pb2-60 AGS ct 0
diam. 6.50mm (6.49-6.51)
depth 3.96mm 60.9%
crown 34.1 14.8% 0
pavl 41.1 43.4% 0
table 3.65mm 56% 0
cutlet 0.8% ver.small 0
girdle 0.7thin - 1.2thin 1.0% 0

I haven''t seen/read much about the SARIN. What are the "0"''s at the end mean? It also doesn''t match the GIA *exactly* but I''m anal like that.

Now for the questions;

1) How do I make sure this ring/diamond matches the cert? The owner says it''s laser inscribed but obviously I could not see it with a loupe. I want to take it to a jeweler to confirm, but is that enough? If numbers match, how sure can I be that I''m getting what is advertised?

2) I know I should get it appraised. Is it possible to do so even though it''s mounted? My guess is yes, since I have a copy of the last apprasial for the whole ring. Are these numbers generally high? It was over $9400!

3) The ring is a size 6 and my GF is a 5. I''m thinking about *not* resizing it. I was going to present it to her, then we can go shopping for a setting together. I still haven''t found the "perfect" one, but this is only with input from her friends. I am not 100% sure of what *SHE* likes. I am 100% sure I have not found it yet.

4) The Holloway Cut Advisor rates it as a 2.1, Very Good for all categories. How is it that possible for a GIA Ideal and AGS 0 diamond?

I''m 95% sure I''m going to buy this ring this week. It''s meets all my standards (Ideal cut, I or higher, VS2 or higher) and looks beautiful in person. Only the HCA is giving me doubts. Should I be concerned?

Lastly, anyone know a GREAT appraiser in the Bay Area besides Nancy Stacy? She''s a bit far in Walnut Creek and I''m down near San Jose.

Anyone with a IdealScope in the area would like to sell/lend it to me for a day?

Thanks!
Hong
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
1) How do I make sure this ring/diamond matches the cert? The owner says it's laser inscribed but obviously I could not see it with a loupe. I want to take it to a jeweler to confirm, but is that enough? If numbers match, how sure can I be that I'm getting what is advertised?

Have an appraiser match the cert and check out the stone for you. Before you buy, make sure you have a money back guarentee dependant upon the appraiseal. The laser inscription is nice, but not anyone with the tool can inscribe whatever they want on a diamond.


2) I know I should get it appraised. Is it possible to do so even though it's mounted? My guess is yes, since I have a copy of the last apprasial for the whole ring. Are these numbers generally high? It was over $9400!

An appraiser should look at a stone unmounted. The price is high compared to what you can find online. You can find a better stone for almost 3k less.


3) The ring is a size 6 and my GF is a 5. I'm thinking about *not* resizing it. I was going to present it to her, then we can go shopping for a setting together. I still haven't found the "perfect" one, but this is only with input from her friends. I am not 100% sure of what *SHE* likes. I am 100% sure I have not found it yet.

I gave my fiance a solitare intending to let her pick out her own ring. She loves the solitare, because it's what I gave her first, and decided not to get a different ring. Resizing the ring is cheap and quick. I'd say it's much more important that it can be on the finger when you give it to her. Better to be too big than too small.

4) The Holloway Cut Advisor rates it as a 2.1, Very Good for all categories. How is it that possible for a GIA Ideal and AGS 0 diamond?

2.1 is still a really good score. Remember, the HCA is simply one tool (of many) to help you evaluate a stone. That being said, there are lots of poorly cut diamonds that fit into the "ideal" range, and are given grades of ideal or 0.
 

Pelican_Racing

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Messages
6
Lugus,

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry I wasn't clear. The last appraisal was for $9,375 in 2001.

I'm still negotiating the price with the owner! It's much lower than that


-Hong
 

newenglandgemlab

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2003
Messages
316
Hi Hong,

$9375 is way too high a value on that stone. You don't want to pay premiums on that amount. The insurance company would never give you that amount if something happened. Get a realistic appraisal. There are plenty of what I call 'feel good' appraisals out there. Just another wrench in the machinery! Congratulations on the engagement. Have a great trip, Cindy
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Hi I don't have time to respond to all your Q's but I see the others are anyway. I wanted to quickly comment on Nancy Stacy in Walnut Creek...we used her and we too are located in San Jose (santa clara actually). The drive is only about 35 minutes in non-traffic and she is excellent. She is very conservative as well, she will not overinflate your appraisal just for retail purposes. She's an older woman, very forthright and honest with her opinions, so just be aware


The one things that she did not have that I wanted was Bscope results nor does she take IdealScope pictures of the stone (though she has an IS...). You can ask to see your stone under the IS though and she will show you.

If you use her, be sure she gives you her notes on the stone and not just the final appraisal, as the notes on the stone has all the detail you will want to see (like the sarin info) while the final appraisal does not necessarily have the details on the stone. I think that using RockDoc or someone else on the forum who has all the Bscope and other tools would have been more detailed (and I like details!), but Nancy was one of the only independent appraisers around here, and I didn't want to have to send the ring anywhere. I also asked her if she thought there were other appraisers locally who were pretty good and she said there was one in SF, but that no one else really met her standards. She has been in the biz for over 30 years, owned her own jewelry biz before getting into appraisals, works out of her home and teaches GIA appraisal courses both locally and overseas (going to China this winter). She also got me hooked into the GIA courses and was sweet enough to tell me that if I ever had questions on my course materials, to just call her.

So all in all, I definitely recommend her, just be sure you get as many details as you can and don't be afraid to ask her questions or push her to show you more. She costs around $125 an hour. For our ring we spent around $300 total on the appraisal (we took her the stone loose and then brought back the final ring for another inspection of small stones etc).

Good luck!!
Plus actually Walnut Creek has some nice areas and ifyou drive back a little on 680 you can go to Danville where they have cute small shops etc. A fun weekend trip. Nancy doesn't necessarily work on the weekends but she will let you drop things off and pick them up later. We did that the first time around with our loose stone.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
The stone sounds very nice. Probably it's not the very best ideal cut, but nevertheless should be pretty gorgeus
.
May I ask you the price of this rock?? If it's from a private seller, then I guess it has been worn. That said, I'd expect to pay about 4000 to 4500$...
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,325

----------------
On 3/8/2003 1:45:31 PM Giangi wrote:
The stone sounds very nice. Probably it's not the very best ideal cut, but nevertheless should be pretty gorgeous
.
May I ask you the price of this rock?? If it's from a private seller, then I guess it has been worn. That said, I'd expect to pay about 4000 to 4500$...----------------
Hey Giangi-Where do you come up with this conclusion in bold? Is it because the 41.1 pav. angle? In your opinion what range would the very best ideal cut stone fall in, just in your opinion? I have viewed stones in the given Depth range with 34.1/41.1 given on the sarin with great B-scope scores as well as viewing the cut precision under the idealscope/firescope/Lightscope. Just wondering...........

Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Hey Scorpion... Yes, you're right... I prefer slightly shallower pavilions... I don't think everyone agree with me, but this is my point of view. But as I said, the stone it's likely to be a ball of fire!
 

Pelican_Racing

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Messages
6
----------------
On 3/8/2003 1:45:31 PM Giangi wrote:
May I ask you the price of this rock?? If it's from a private seller, then I guess it has been worn. That said, I'd expect to pay about 4000 to 4500$...
----------------
Giangi,

Sorry I left that out. It was late and I've been reading about diamonds all night long...

Seller is asking $5500. He already offered me $5000 when I went to see it last night. I think anything under the $5K mark would be a good deal.

It is "old" but has never been worn. He bought it and broke up with the girl. He's had it for two years but recently laided off so he's selling it.

So how do you price a "old-new" ring? I'll probably get it reset, but still can't find pictures of the one I want! (will do custom setting if needed)

-Hong
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
This could be your opportunity to get a great deal and give him some money back. Keep in mind that in selling the ring, if he recovers even 60% of what he paid for it, he is getting a good deal. It's very hard to re-sell a ring and/or sell it back to a jeweler or similar. If he took it to a pawn shop he'd get maybe 10-20% of the appraisal value. If he sold it on eBay with an appraisal for $9k on a 1c he would maybe get around $3k. IF anyone even bid on it...sometimes eBay can be tricky--rings and stones are very personal and some people will not bid on them in that environment.

So I would suggest trying to get it for around $4.5k. That is a good deal for you, and he gets most of his money back (unless he bought it from a mall jeweler in which case he paid too much for it anyway).

You can get an excellently cut 1c H VS1 online through one of the better vendors for probably around $5500/6k. So keep that in mind while negotiating with him. The appraisal may say $9k but they are usually overinflated for retail unless you get it done by an appraiser who will not inflate the cost.

Good luck!
 

Pelican_Racing

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Messages
6
Mara,

Thanks for the advice. $4500 is what I'm shooting for! It gives me a bit to play with in case I get a custom setting.

I saw one at Ben Bridge and it was PERFECT. Too bad they called it their "Tolkowsky Legacy" line and refused to sell the setting alone. They said if I wanted the setting with a 1ct stone, it would be at least $15k!

Been looking for pictures online but no luck. It's a four prong with very organic, flowing lines. From the profile view, it looks like two roots of a tree coming together to form the side prongs. Anyone have any idea where I can find it?

-Hong
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Yes, I'd offer 4.5K too. It would be quite a deal!!!!! let us know what he says!
 

Pelican_Racing

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Messages
6
Well I had the diamond checked out by David at Willow Glenn Custom Jewelers. Such a nice guy!

The seller was firm on his price so I walked away from the deal. I've gotten prices *BELOW* what he was asking for an AGS 000, 1.0ct, H-VS1 from Diamond Brokers in FL.

I was hoping to buy locally so I'm going to check out Derco later this week.

Any comments, suggestions, recommendations, etc would be much appreciated!

Only 5 days LEFT!


-Hong
 
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