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Please help ! 11.03 cts diamond.

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Steff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
11
Hello,I just got a 11.03 cts. Diamond by consignment. Report from EGL-USA is I-vvs2. Report from IGI-Bangkok is J-vs1, polish-VG, sym-G,weak blue fluorescence. Some jewelers told me that GIA should grade this stone not over K-vs1or2.
1. How much should it really be if I send to GIA ? J or K ?
2. My diamond dealer ask me 7,857 USD/ct. Is that expensive? How much should it cost?
Thank you.

diamond 11.03 cts.jpg
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
the price for this kind of stones is difficult to tell, it depends...
so big!
whatever, you bought it and it's a little bit late to ask...
but i like the pic...
very nice...
i like the I to N-O colors...
don't worry !
 

Steff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
11
Thank you,Stephan .But I didn't buy it yet. I got it by pending for inspection. I will negotiate to my dealer tomorrow and need some opinion about the price. I can't find any jeweller who can tell me how much should it cost ?

I'm a diamond wholesaler,if I buy it expensive I can't sell it out.

Thank you in advance for your opinion.
 

Steff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
11
Hey! Who are you ? You know "may pen rai". Where do you live ?
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
I live in Belgium.
I can speak Vietnamese, but not Thai.
I listen a lot at ram-wong? music.
I like it.

Can you tell us more about the proportions of the stone?
Thanx !
See you!
(I am not a professional, but I have a lot of diamonds)
 

Steff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
11
Excuse me, are you Vietnamese ? What kind of diamonds do you have?

I got the small report like this. I don't know the meaning of each number.Can you tell me?

From my measurement this stone is 14.38 x 14.50 x 8.75 mm.
table-60%
crown angle-30
girdle-mid. to thick
culet-small
sym-good
polish-VG
fluorescence-weak blue

Thanks again.

Untitled-TrueColor-01.jpg
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
No, I am not viet, my BF is...

I got the meaning of your paper...
total depth: 60.6%
table: 59%
crown: 12.4% (or 31.17 degrees)
pavilion: 44.4% (or 41.6 degrees)

Dear Steff, the girdle seems to be very thick!
And the angles are not ideal.
But I still love the picture!
I am so sorry that I can tell you the right price!

My diamonds are ideal cuts (0.65 up to 1.5ct) except one diamond of 2.01ct.
I like the faint yellow diamonds!
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
the color of your 11ct is perhaps a "L"
i already saw it with EGL...
They say "I" but is K or L, and don't forget the fluorescence!
The fluo diamonds are often bad-graded!
So, I think "L".
Try GIA!
(PS: It's very late in Bangkok, but you can't sleep because of the diamond, isn't it?)
 

Steff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
11
"you can't sleep because of the diamond, isn't it?"

Yes, Ha..Ha..

May be I should return it to the dealer. I think ,can't buy better than buy expensive, right? I don't want to cry.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
It's so difficult...
But I wouldn't buy it because the proportions are not the best, and the price so uncertain.
But for you, it's different because you will sell it again.
But today, a lot of people know about Ideal Cuts, so it might become difficult to sell...
Have a good night, Sivaphong!
 

Steff

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
11
Good Night.(Almost Good Morning for me! Ha..Ha..)
I send you an E-mail .Did you get it?

Have a good night, Stephan.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Hello!
What a monster!

Since this stone is SO big, I'm sure that A LOT of graders expressed their opinion on this stone. More than three, which is the norm. EGL USA is fairly lax in their grading --especially color, but I seriously doubt that the stone would get a GIA VS 2. That's too big a difference. A VVS 2 should have extremely small inclusions, while a VS 2 of this size may have slightly eye-visible inclusions.
IGI Thailand is quite good and probably the stone is really a J/VS 1 or really close to it.
Anyway, I'd get a GIA. It's worth it!

It is a very beautiful looking stone. It is not ideal, but honestly I haven't seen too many 10cts+++ that were ideals.
Just for curiosity... What's EGL appraised value?
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
Dear Sivaphong,

I have to wait tomorrow to read your mail, because I am at home and only can check my personal mail.
The mailbox that I use with pricescope is my mail at work.
So I have to wait till I go work tomorrow!
Nice to meet You
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
BTW, girdle shouldn't be very thick. 60.6 - (12.4 + 44.4) = 3.6 which is HRD medium.
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
You are so good, Giangi!

Do you live in Belgium too?
I think that You live in Europe, isn't it?
Always nice to meet you on this forum!
You always do your best here, and you already helped me in the past!
Sorry for the girdle but 60.6 - (12.4 + 44.4) = 3.8, not 3.6 !

But you are right by saying that it isn't too thick.
See you again !
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Ooooooooooooooooooooooops! My bad!

Yes I'm european, I'm in Italy!!!!!
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
Giangi, when you buy online, do you have to pay a lot af taxes?
I would like to do that but I am afraid that in Belgium, I will have to pay 21% !!!
I still by in Antwerp but the ideal cuts are very difficult to find there...
Thanks 4 your help again!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Yes I have to pay a TON of taxes. Over 20%.

And when I buy something in the US, I STILL grrrrrrrrrrrrr have to pay 20%+++ of taxes! Would you believe that?

Ideals can be found here in Europe. You just have to shop harder.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
But I have to say that you can find the best bargains on the net!
 

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
It's crazy!
The ideals here are hum hum ideals.
Not ideal enough 4 american people.
But I found a few stones, yes.
Thanx a lot!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
U're very welcome. See ya soon.
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441
At that level, size is what matters. When it's going for $8k/ct wholesale, removing a few tenths of a carat can mean a lot of money. And you'd have to take a lot off that stone to get an H&A, which you very well might not make up with the increased value, especially if you took it below 10 ct.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Wow an 11c stone!! Amazing
Pretty.

$8k per carat seems like alot to me (but I am just a consumer and have never seen an 11c stone!)--since a very well cut 1c stone can go for around $7k. But maybe the larger the stone, the more rare and the more expensive per carat? In which case, then it'd make sense to pay $8k?

Look at the size of those facets! They look huge compared to the little itsy-bitsy stones we see on here (hah 1-2c stones itsy-bitsy!)

Giangi? Stephan? Comments?
 

Nate

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
211
Why isn't large rough simply cut into many smaller stones? Otherwise I would presume rough prices would be scalable to nearly any size...
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441
----------------
On 6/30/2003 11:10
1 PM Nate wrote:

Why isn't large rough simply cut into many smaller stones? Otherwise I would presume rough prices would be scalable to nearly any size...
----------------
Because it's just not profitable to do it that way, even if it might seem otherwise in the abstract. Believe me, if the manufacturers could make more money breaking up large rough and cutting the pieces into a bunch of 1 ct H&As, they'd all be doing that. Part of the reason that--as Furthermore is fond of complaining--this business is so dominated by people whose families have been moving diamonds around since, oh, the end of the Crimean War, is that making a profit is much, much trickier than people outside the trade think. It takes an enormous amount of experience and know-how to be able to pick through a pile of rough and turn them into saleable stones that will return a good profit. The reason there are so many "badly" cut stones on the market, and the reason large rough is cut the way it is, is simply because that's how you make money. If it were otherwise, diamonds wouldn't be cut that way.
 

mike04456

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Messages
1,441

----------------
On 7/1/2003 12
2:37 PM Furthermore wrote:
By way of example - Lawgem, correct me if I`m wrong here - DeBeers recently had a pile of rough cut so badly that it only made 40% profit. ;-)))

----------------
Hmm, I hadn't heard that story. But then De Beers is not exactly a representative example.


I do know a manufacturer who had a million-dollar piece of rough shatter on the polishing wheel for no apparent reason, though.
Not a business I'm interested in getting into, personally.
 
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