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Please compare these two diamonds

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harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
#1
Grading: GIA
Color: E
Clarity: VS1
Weight: 2.309 ct.
Diameter: 8.58 (8.55-8.60)
Total Depth: 61.1% 5.24mm
Crown Angle: 34.3 (34.2 - 34.6)
Crown Height: 15.1 (14.8 - 15.3)
Pavil Angle: 40.9% (40.8 - 41.1)
Pavil Depth: 43.1% (42.9 - 43.3)
Culet: 0.2%
Table Size: 55% (54.8 - 55.1)
Girdle Thickness: 1.2% (1.0-1.5)
$26,995

#2
Grading: AGS
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Weight: 2.36 ct.
Diameter: 8.58 (8.56-8.61)
Total Depth: 61.1% 5.24mm
Crown Angle: 35 (34.8 - 35.2)
Crown Height: 15.6 (15.4 - 15.

Pavil Angle: 40.6% (40.3 - 40.9)
Pavil Depth: 42.4% (42.2 - 42.6)
Culet: 0.4%
Table Size: 56.1% (55.8 - 56.4)
Girdle Thickness: 1.5% (1.2-2.0)
$29,547

A few other questions.

Ladies, is it lame to propose on her 30th birthday? It wasn't my grand plan or anything, it's just that it's coming up soon, so I was wondering if I should propose on that day or a few days before or after. Also, I really want to get her the exact setting that she likes, so is it lame to propose with just the unset diamond and the setting I picked next to it, so that I can just return the setting if the setting is not perfect? Plus I want to view the H&As with her. Is this silly?

Can someone really see the difference in color between an E color and a G color if both are in platinum settings? Okay, maybe an expert can, but if you don't compare them side by side and stare at it for 1 full minute, can you really tell the difference?

What's the best place to get a 6 prong Tiffany setting? Can someone please recommend a specific place? Thanks
 

dimonbob

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Messages
670
Hi Harry,

Do not give her the diamond and the setting apart from each other. The lady wants to put the diamond on NOW and show her friends NOW. Set that rock and give her a ring that she can enjoy NOW.

My wife is not an expert and she can easily see the difference in an E and a G when mounted.

I don't know where you are getting your diamond but I think any of the vendors here can supply and set your diamond in a 6-prong Tiffany style ring. If they can't, shame on them. If you plan to get the diamond and the ring and take them into a jeweler to set the diamond, be prepared for some flack and a high setting price.
 

canadianice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
82
Harry -
I would choose #1: it has higher colour; higher clarity; the angles/proportions look a bit better; and it has the same diameter as #2, despite #2 having the higher carat weight.

Plus, #1 is less expensive by over $2,500!

There must be a bit excess weight of #2 in the girdle (and likely the crown) because the total depths are identical, despite the fact that #2 has a shallower pavilion.

Good luck!
P.S. Propose with the whole package!
 

Chris1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
15
Unless you know the exact stone shape (round, radiant, marquis, etc.) and the exact mounting your girlfriend wants, I would put the diamond on a simple band (platinum or gold) as a finished ring to propose, not just a loose stone. But be sure that the jeweler will give you credit if your girlfriend decides that she wants a different shape than round, and a different more stylish setting. The engagement ring is a woman's personal item that she'll wear everyday for many years to come, and it should reflect her personal taste and style. Also, it happened to my friend where he purchased a engagement ring to propose, and his girlfriend said no. Luckily, the jeweler gave him his money back.

Good luck!
 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
thanks for the replies so far.

anyone out there who can compare the technical merits on the two diamonds? diamcalc perhaps?

i know that there are lots of places that sell 6 pring Tiffany settings. they are of varying quality though. anyone have a place they recommend? thanks.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
You're looking at some serious diamonds there, Harry.

These stones are very similar in their proportions, and light return performance. I'll post the two POSSIBLE DiamCalc IdealScope simulated images, but the Light Return Analysis for some reason is taking forever to calculate on my computer tonight. The numbers look like they're stacking up pretty evenly. Unless something out of the ordinary pops up on their analysis, I would consider these two stones as (fraternal) twin sisters.

If it were me, I'd go with the E/VS1. Better color, better clarity, and almost identical light performance for $2500 cheaper. Those are my kind of numbers...

-----------
IdealScope- In general, the darker pink areas indicate areas of greater light return, with the lighter pink areas indicating areas of lesser light return. The black areas indicate areas of greater contrast, with the gray areas indicating areas of lesser contrast. The white areas indicate areas of light leakage. A good explanation of the IdealScope image along with examples can be found at https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

Disclaimer- The facet arrangement and symmetry of the image will probably vary from your actual diamond, which may affect the light performance indicated. The computer generates an image with “perfect” symmetry, which is rare. Also, the star/lower girdle facet lengths may be different from your diamond. The computer simulation is reproduced best when the actual diamond is being viewed and the image "tweaked" to the appearance of the diamond, or Sarin info is downloaded directly into the program. However, this "blind" reproduction should be helpful in considering the major light performance aspects..
-----------
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
WOW these are monster stones!! I would go for stone #1 as well. What does the HCA say? I'm too lazy to type the #'s in. But I like the E VS1 almost same size over the 2nd stone for much cheaper. DC images look similar too.

Oh and SET THAT before giving it to her!!!! I would die if I got a 2.3c stone and couldn't wear it right away! Set it in the 6 prong and then maybe for the wedding get her a new setting as a present (then you can see the H&A's when you have it reset!!).

 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
thanks for the replies.

yes, these two stones are indeed very similar, which is why i wanted people's opinion on them. they are fairly identical in every respect except the color, yet the F color stone is more expensive than the E color stone. why? is there something else about the F stone that's better than the E stone? my opinion of the seller is that he knows what they're doing and he would not misprice a stone.

I believe the HCA scores the F stone slightly better than the E stone, but I don't think that explains the difference.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
If the two stones are coming from the same seller, I'd ask him directly why one is priced more than the other.

If they are coming from two different sellers, it's quite likely that the difference in price is related to difference in markup.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Regarding price:

One is GIA & the other AGS. AGS stone for some reason carry a premium.

As Rich says, ask the dealer why the price dif. Sometimes it could be as simple as he got a better deal on the first one.
 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
Richard, thanks for prividing the diamcalc analysis. If you don't mind, can you please see if your computer can go fast enough for the light return analysis? thanks.

HCA has 2 excellents for the E stone and 3 excellents for the F stone.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
I'd go with the E color one...
 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
any other comments? are these two diamonds a good deal? if anyone wants to comment on one of the two instead of both at the same time please go ahead. thanks.
 

Colored Gemstone Nut

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
2,324
You will not be able to see the .o5 carat difference. Better color and a better clarity stone for the better price graded by a reputable lab. What left is there to decide. Crown angle in E is shallower than the F which seems to be the preferred in affecting a stones performance
In response to the following comments you posted earlier:
"is there something else about the F stone that's better than the E stone? my opinion of the seller is that he knows what they're doing and he would not misprice a stone."
Do not neccesarily assume anything. Look at what you have on the table here.

"I believe the HCA scores the F stone slightly better than the E stone, but I don't think that explains the difference."

I have a new desktop version of the HCA & this is what your stones scored individually in each category and the total overal numerically.

#1 The E VS1:
Light Return-0.00-Excellent
Fire-0.36-Excellent
Scintillation-0.42-Very Good
Spread-0.23-Excellent
1.1-Excellent (TIC)
Lookiing at the variances between the angles measured:
The E stone has no variance greater than .5

#1 The F VS2:
Light Return-0.00-Excellent
Fire-0.11-Excellent
Scintillation-0.13-Very Good
Spread-0.27-Excellent
.6-Excellent (TIC)
Lookiing at the variances between the angles measured:
The F stone has no variance greater than .6.

Respectfully both stones are cut to tight proportions. Keep in mind when using the the HCA it is a preliminary tool to weed out stones which might not perform as well as others. The only real disticton you can make between which stone appeals to you is with your eyes in seeing the stones side by side.
With all the info that you have presented I would go with the E. Spend the extra money on a real knock-out setting.

-Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska
 

harry

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2003
Messages
50
thanks scorpion, your results with the desktop hca is interesting. HCA scores the F stone as having better light performance but the b-scope reports on the two stones actually show that the E stone have better overall performance. The first bar in the b-scope report for the F stone is on "High" as opposed to "very high" on the E stone

in terms of setting, local jewelers are saying that they take 3 days to mount the stone. is this unusual or is this the norm? also, local appraiser says he charges $175 for appraisal.

Should i give the appraiser the diamond stats on the certification or should i have him come up with his stats and then compare the two? thanks.
 
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