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Please, be brutally honest about this EGL Hearts & Arrows

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surfcheck101

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I'd like to hear opinions on this stone. It faces up white, however from the back has a very faint yellow tint. I believe it to be more J in color than I, but a firm VS1 clarity. I want to have the diamond placed in a halo setiing, platinum ring.

Here are the specs:
EGL USA Certified
Ideal Plus (Hearts and Arrows)
1.21 carat
I colour
VS1 clarity
Size:6.97 - 6.89 x 4.18
Depth: 60.3
Table: 57
Crown Angle: 33.7
Crown %: 14.4
Pavilion Angle: 40.6
Pavilion %: 42.5
Girdle: Thin-Medium/Faceted
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Price: $4,500

Can I do better in that price range, $4500.

Thanks in advance......

 

Regular Guy

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Hopefully more talented friends will reply...but it may be a keeper.

Do you also like the vendor?

Consider also a) looking at with an idealscope and/or b) comparing to one like this...WF seems to have 2 under $5 K you might want to compare to...

Welcome to Pricescope, and best of wishes,
 

Skippy123

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Yes, give us more info on the vendor. AGS and GIA certificates are the best. Do a search on EGL certificates.
 

shawee

Rough_Rock
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Dec 27, 2006
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I think seeing a yellow tint is normal, I have an H and I do see a yellow tint (very faint though). The most important thing is that it faces up white. If you want something that doesn''t have the yellow tint, you will have to pay a higher price for a higher color.
 

stebbo

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
466
I too like the Whiteflash stone Ira mentioned. WF don't think it's optically symmetrical enough to be H&A but based on it's IdealScope image, angles, minor facets, Ideal lab symmetry and WF's high H&A standards, it's possibly a stone that many other vendors would call H&A.

I have a feeling your stone isn't a true H&A anyway going by it's diameter variation, VG lab symmetry and the general looseness of H&A standards out there. Just a feeling, nothing concrete.

WF's stone would probably also fetch an AGS-0, or 1 at worse for not being super bright in the centre, yours more like an AGS-2.

The EGL-USA cert - fine if you never plan to sell the diamond. Enjoy the discount. The color might be soft, possibly not as there is negligible fluorescence. Just make sure your smaller halo diamonds are color matched by eye rather than relying on the EGL-USA color grade. The 'I' is fine apart from that given the good cut and covered sides when mounted.

Oh, and you won't notice the 0.07 carat difference in size in a halo ring.

Stebbo
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 1/28/2007 8:58:18 PM
Author: Skippy123
Yes, give us more info on the vendor. AGS and GIA certificates are the best. Do a search on EGL certificates.
Referring to this survey, and many threads...EGL USA is a step above other EGL labs, so finding an EGL USA option just versus some EGL cert is an important distinction.

Still...since I would at least wonder why it was sent to EGL vs a more "thoroughbred" lab...getting it to a savvy appraiser to do due diligence would be reasonable, given your expense. If you do this...consider having someone like WF send another diamond you might compare it to (and actually choose instead), so you have some options to consider. Just an idea.
 

stebbo

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Date: 1/28/2007 10:34:04 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Still...since I would at least wonder why it was sent to EGL vs a more ''thoroughbred'' lab...

GIA: Poor turnaround
AGS: Most probably wouldn''t get AGS''s Ideal-0 but would possibly fetch an EGL Ideal, which would look better to the average consumer than a possible AGS-2 or a AGS DQ Report carrying no cut grade. It definitely would look fishy to have a "Ideal Plus" stone not fetching an AGS-0.

Stebbo
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 1/28/2007 11:17:30 PM
Author: stebbo

Date: 1/28/2007 10:34:04 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Still...since I would at least wonder why it was sent to EGL vs a more ''thoroughbred'' lab...
GIA: Poor turnaround
AGS: Most probably wouldn''t get AGS''s Ideal-0 but would possibly fetch an EGL Ideal, which would look better to the average consumer than a possible AGS-2 or a AGS DQ Report carrying no cut grade. It definitely would look fishy to have a ''Ideal Plus'' stone not fetching an AGS-0.

Stebbo
Interesting theory. I never know how to value the turnaround point...true...but if valued higher...so many are certed through GIA...why the differential...since those others obviously wait the turnaround.

But...in consideration of the result of alternatives...this is...although falling right outside of GIA excellent...can be read by Pricescrope readers as potentially more attractively dead center in the red (see the HCA chart) than even AGS or GIA targets. Yes, there''s a potential complication of the less than 1 score...but...since I simply can only guess the extent that the diamond holder would actually be making strategic decisions like this vs actually thinking they have a more inferior diamond that could slide by with an EGL, and then lucked into using a stricter lab after all (how much intention must really be behind these decisions?)...you are then back to an expert appraiser. Local or distant appraiser? That''s worth some thought. Where are you?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Brutally honest?
Okay, buy a stone with AGS paper.
Only the best stones go to AGS.

You asked.
 

Adylon

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
232
Hey Kenny I agree with you but how is he going to get a 1.21ct VS1/I stone that is AGS000 for $4500??? Do a pricescope search, the closest VS1/I 1.20-1.30ct is $5350+

If you want that perfect ideal cut stone, then yes, stick with AGS. But if you want something that would still perform very well, like a AGS1-2 or GIA borderline VG-EX quality, then I think it''s a great deal. I''d be willing to bet that diamond would perform better then most GIA VG and some GIA EX diamonds out there. It really all depends just how "ideal" of a diamond you want. Just my 2c.

That stone scores 0.7 in the HCA, btw.
 

Regular Guy

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Yes, Kenny, read up on what Pricescope's original intent was about (upper left).

Surfcheck, Kenny takes a reasonable and conservative approach. Also, he sticks with VVS stones.
 

kenny

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Date: 1/29/2007 12:02:45 AM
Author: Adylon
Hey Kenny I agree with you but how is he going to get a 1.21ct VS1/I stone that is AGS000 for $4500??? Do a pricescope search, the closest VS1/I 1.20-1.30ct is $5350+


If you want that perfect ideal cut stone, then yes, stick with AGS. But if you want something that would still perform very well, like a AGS1-2 or GIA borderline VG-EX quality, then I think it's a great deal. I'd be willing to bet that diamond would perform better then most GIA VG and some GIA EX diamonds out there. It really all depends just how 'ideal' of a diamond you want. Just my 2c.


That stone scores 0.7 in the HCA, btw.
So this guy thinks he is getting a VS1 I stone?
If EGL says it is VS1 I . . . uhm I'd take those grades with a grain of salt.
EGL has softer standards than AGS.

Maybe if he gets an AGS VS2 J it will be priced similarly and actually be similar to a EGL VS1 I, and prices similarly too.
But it WILL get a cut grade form AGS.

Ya get what ya pay for.
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,951
a bit hard to say. As a practical matter, if $5K is a cliff to not cross over, you can''t get there. On the other hand, this one is just over the cliff, and what Kenny''s describing. And...with AGS certification, you might even pass on a shi shi appraiser.

But...sounds like this buyer has a local guy. That''s worth a lot too.

I think I''d try to pursue it.
 

stebbo

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
466
Date: 1/29/2007 12:14:03 AM
Author: kenny

So this guy thinks he is getting a VS1 I stone?

If EGL says it is VS1 I . . . uhm I'd take those grades with a grain of salt.

EGL has softer standards than AGS.
Maybe the EGL does, but the grading survey Ira referred to couldn't prove the EGL-USA graded clarity softer. In fact it showed the EGL-USA to grade stricter than the GIA. Sure, a 17 stone sample isn't conclusive, but the clarity results weren't borderline.

Stebbo
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
42,064
Date: 1/28/2007 8:29:18 PM
Author:surfcheck101
I''d like to hear opinions on this stone. It faces up white, however from the back has a very faint yellow tint. I believe it to be more J in color than I, but a firm VS1 clarity. I want to have the diamond placed in a halo setiing, platinum ring.

Here are the specs:
EGL USA Certified
Ideal Plus (Hearts and Arrows)
1.21 carat
I colour
VS1 clarity
Size:6.97 - 6.89 x 4.18
Depth: 60.3
Table: 57
Crown Angle: 33.7
Crown %: 14.4
Pavilion Angle: 40.6
Pavilion %: 42.5
Girdle: Thin-Medium/Faceted
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Price: $4,500

Can I do better in that price range, $4500.

Thanks in advance......

To answer your question - possibly not. If you have a good relationship with this vendor which it seems you do, get an independant appraisal on this diamond to make sure the colour and clarity check out. But as has been mentioned before, if you ever want to trade this diamond, stick to AGS and GIA graded stones.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,427
Date: 1/28/2007 11:46:02 PM
Author: kenny
Brutally honest?
Okay, buy a stone with AGS paper.
Only the best stones go to AGS.

You asked.
Guess I should send my GIA Isee2 back.



That''s a damaging, fear inducing statement kenny. Besides the OP, anyone searching threads who reads that and wants a great stone will very possibly dismiss any GIA stones they might have considered (of which there ARE great ones). And people who already bought a GIA stone are going to freak out thinking they may have bought a less than desirable stone.

I really wish people around here would stop spouting personal opinions as fact.


To the OP, EGL USA has been said to be the most stringent in grading of the EGL labs. If you really love/want the stone, I would recommend taking it to an independant appraisor and see if they give it the thumbs up.
 

UCLABelle

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
2,360
Ellen- I agree. To eliminate graders like GIA, or to 100% dismiss EGL USA is just not right....But then again, my stone is GIA, so I have a personal attachment to Kenny''s post
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 1/29/2007 7:55:18 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 1/28/2007 11:46:02 PM
Author: kenny
Brutally honest?
Okay, buy a stone with AGS paper.
Only the best stones go to AGS.

You asked.
Guess I should send my GIA Isee2 back.



That''s a damaging, fear inducing statement kenny. Besides the OP, anyone searching threads who reads that and wants a great stone will very possibly dismiss any GIA stones they might have considered (of which there ARE great ones). And people who already bought a GIA stone are going to freak out thinking they may have bought a less than desirable stone.

I really wish people around here would stop spouting personal opinions as fact.


To the OP, EGL USA has been said to be the most stringent in grading of the EGL labs. If you really love/want the stone, I would recommend taking it to an independant appraisor and see if they give it the thumbs up.
Ditto Ellen.
 

surfcheck101

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
6
"That stone scores 0.7 in the HCA, btw. "


Thank you for that informative information.
Up until this point I had not utilized the HCA Chart.

And thanks for all the replies.
If I read into them correctly, the price for the diamond is of fair value, however if I (we) decide to trade "up" down the road I may not recover some of the initial value due to the EGL Certification.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
42,064
Date: 1/29/2007 10:24:59 AM
Author: surfcheck101
''That stone scores 0.7 in the HCA, btw. ''


Thank you for that informative information.
Up until this point I had not utilized the HCA Chart.

And thanks for all the replies.
If I read into them correctly, the price for the diamond is of fair value, however if I (we) decide to trade ''up'' down the road I may not recover some of the initial value due to the EGL Certification.
Basically if you wish to trade in an EGL graded diamond, many vendors won''t take them, they prefer AGS/ GIA graded. So if you wanted to trade this with a vendor for another diamond, you might not be able to. Also when trying to resell diamonds yourself, regardless of the grading report ( although GIA/ AGS help) it is usual to expect only around 50% back on what you paid even for those graded diamonds, EGL may be even less. So you need to take this into consideration, if you are planning on keeping this diamond then it isn''t a problem, but who knows what the future might bring???
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 1/29/2007 10:24:59 AM
Author: surfcheck101
'That stone scores 0.7 in the HCA, btw. '


Thank you for that informative information.
Up until this point I had not utilized the HCA Chart.

And thanks for all the replies.
If I read into them correctly, the price for the diamond is of fair value, however if I (we) decide to trade 'up' down the road I may not recover some of the initial value due to the EGL Certification.
Surf, sorry I did have reference to the HCA info when I wrote above (confirm yourself, and see the big yellow area in the middle to see what I meant).

Note, though, that from my point of view, the upgrade business is a minor point here (though major to those who might like to consider taking advantage of this option, no doubt). More of concern is that HCA data is based on a presentation of averages of 8 (or so) facets into 2 figures...crown & pavilion, and further, ignoring minor facts. All in all...not too bad after that...but potentially faulty as described, and best resolved with at least a 3 D rendering...accomplished with a contemporary AGS0 option, graded for light performance. Also, despite best efforts, the second one I mentioned above didn't actually get that. This one does, as does this one have that pedigree. The idea of using an independent appraiser to not only look at your option of choice, but to compare it to an alternative you could also choose, is still an idea I favor.
 

littlelysser

Brilliant_Rock
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Dec 8, 2005
Messages
1,862
This topic kind of gets my goat a bit.

I have a fantastic EGL diamond that I absolutely love. It is an I color asscher. And I rarely see any color in it all. Every now and again I see a small bit of warmth - but that is it. It is my avatar.

Yes, EGL diamonds may be less strictly graded than GIA or AGS. However, if you are willing to look or know that your jeweler is respectable and trustworthy, you can get a fantastic stone at a great price.

It bothers me to a certain extent when I hear people say that EGL diamonds are no good. EGL is a reputable lab - it isn''t like some made up lab that some companies use for their appraisals. Their appraisals are worth more than a grain of salt.

Finally, I''m not sure where this only the best stones go to AGS comes from. And I am not sure that I believe it. Sounds like a bit of snobbery and I''ve certainly never seen anything that proves that fact.

In fact, I''ve seen some AMAZING, take your breath away uncertified stones.

Bottom line - if you love it, trust your jeweler and it is in your price range...that is what matters.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I have two diamonds that have GIA paper, an asscher and a Solasfera.
So, I have nothing against GIA.
I bought these stones with my eyes wide open.

But if I was shopping for a round (or a princess) I'd go with AGS because I feel they are more pro-consumer, and I like their cut grade philosophy - and I am too lazy to learn tons of stuff.
From what I read here I have formed the *opinion* that GIA is more looking out for the industry (by allowing those steep deeps to get an EX cut grade) than the consumer.

My appologies to the EGL owners who were offended.

In spite of the PS test, we have all read here again and again how EGLs cost less because of softer standards; I didn't make this up.
It is natural to draw conclusions and form an opinion based on the many many accounts that are documented here on PS.
I guess I have to keep putting the words *my opinion* in every post. (Doesn't it kinda goes without saying, afterall we ARE on the wild and wooly Internet.)
 

Adylon

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Hey Kenny, I''m sure you''ve read Harriet''s story with her AGS-I-J-K color issue. Granted this is a rare case but these things happen, it''s graded by humans after all. Bottom line is you''re buying 1 stone, you''re not buying 1,000 so averages don''t apply. Each stone should be judged on it''s own merits either by your own eyes, a jeweler you trust, a third party appraiser, or hopefully all three.

If you really want a perfectly cut ideal diamond then by all means get an AGS000 stone, this is my preference as well but you can''t force every consumer to buy what you like. People are always going to have a preference for this or that, epsecially when that purchase is dependant on a budget. We can only hope cut is a very high priority on their list. But just like a flawless clarity or a perfectly colorless diamond, a super ideal cut is not a priority for everyone.
 

Finding_Neverland

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Jan 10, 2007
Messages
412
If Surf has looked around at other diamonds and seen performance differences, then this may be the way Surf gets what Surf wants. A diamond that performs fairly well, gets him the size he''s wanting, meets his color threshold, and fits his pocket book.

Sometimes, as Adylon said, it''s not about absolutes. It''s about getting the best you can within your budget.
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 1/29/2007 4:10:48 PM
Author: Finding_Neverland
If Surf has looked around at other diamonds and seen performance differences, then this may be the way Surf gets what Surf wants. A diamond that performs fairly well, gets him the size he''s wanting, meets his color threshold, and fits his pocket book.

Sometimes, as Adylon said, it''s not about absolutes. It''s about getting the best you can within your budget.
This is not to say Surf is compromising in the least with this option, btw. If ideal is sought, however, one could seek to both trust, & verify. Also, to littlelysser...I''m not sure my comments would be different when entertaining a GIA option, either.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
7,828
My EGL stone went to an inde app. It came back better in color & a tad worse on clarity.

The stone in question looks very good, epecially in relation to price.

Quite a few old timey jewelers will send their stuff to EGL.

Also, I''d be just as concerned with dealers sending their stuff to AGS because the cutters cut the stone to the *perceived* proper stats to make AGS000 when the light perfomance isn''t up to snuff.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Date: 1/29/2007 4:10:48 PM
Author: Finding_Neverland
If Surf has looked around at other diamonds and seen performance differences, then this may be the way Surf gets what Surf wants. A diamond that performs fairly well, gets him the size he's wanting, meets his color threshold, and fits his pocket book.

Sometimes, as Adylon said, it's not about absolutes. It's about getting the best you can within your budget.
Good summation FN.

33.7 with a 40.6 and a 57 table may produce a little overdarkening of the pavilion mains but I don't think it'd be shallow enough to cause the lower halves to fall dark. While it may not make GIA ex or AGS 0 classification with regards to light performance, it should be one of the better looking shallow angled combos. Before pulling the trigger you may want to ask your jewelr if you can compare it alongside a GIA Ex or AGS Ideal just for your own clarity of conscience. Otherwise it'd fall on what I'd consider the better side of the VG grades.

Good luck surf.
 
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