Pillow Talk - A little cushion help for a newbie?

[instariz00]

Hi all -

I've always wanted to say this; Long time reader, first time poster.

As a relative newbie to the diamond world, I found myself overwhelmed ( understatement ) when I started my search. I knew my girlfriend was a fan of the cushion shape - but that's all I've had to go on. As many others before me, I was referred to blue nile - but was a bit thrown off by the fact that pretty much everything was 'gia triple excellent' without much more information to the buyer. This is enough to go on for some people , but made me a bit nervous. I've seen some 'triple excellent' stones that look 100X better than others in real life, so the broadness of GIA's grading made me nervous.

After doing some initial research - these are some basic concepts I think I understand.

1.) The four C's are great. However, when considering all 'eye clean' stones, cut quality is the factor that matters most in a diamond's optics/brilliance - is this right? Beyond that , clarity and color play a role to an extent, but if the stone is 'eye' clean, it would be hard to tell between an IF, F, or VVS1/2? vs D, E, F, G? if they were both 'ideal' / 'excellent' cuts?

2.) In cushion cut, the 'hearts and arrows' setting seems to be much more rare - the 'crushed ice' appearance is what I see a lot, but I far prefer the former. Does this make it worth more from a value standpoint or simply harder to find?

3.) a GIA cert. is a great place to start - but there is heavy variation in quality of cut and eye appearance in the 'triple excellent' stones. AGS seems to do a much better job at quantifying the 'eye bling' or optics of a stone than GIA does. This is what turned me off from blue nile. They have a heck of a lot of 'signature ideal' or 'triple excellent' stones with vastly varying prices - not being able to see them makes it a bit tough to decipher which one is better. Whenever i've seen a AGS '0' stone it's pretty much hands down had killer brilliance in real life.

Here is my question: What factors do I TRULY need to consider before investing in a cushion stone?

I know I want a 2 - 2.5 carat stone, with exceptional cut quality ( AGS "0" seems to be a good stamp ) . my Budget is between 40-45k for the stone and setting. I'm a little bit confused on how much stock I need to put into color ( i.e., should I only shoot for D, E, F, or will 'G' still look fantastic? ) , and clarity ( Should I hold out for VVS2 or higher, or is VS1/vs2 going to look great on a AGS '0' rock? ) - I know all shapes are different..which factors will matter more for a cushion?

Here are a few I'm considering, any advice / opinions? Brian gavin seems to be one of the few places that has AGS cert'd hearts and arrows cushions. Leon mege in nyc seems to have some crazy crazy prices on good stones but no pics or certificates online. I turn 30 this spring and am hoping to pop the question before then. So i've got a little time to do more research / searching. Thanks in advance!

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.015-f-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027002

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.091-f-vvs2-cushion-diamond-ags-104067040002

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/3.070-j-vvs2-cushion-diamond-ags-104067040004

 

[yssie]

Nice thread title

Hi all -

I've always wanted to say this; Long time reader, first time poster.

As a relative newbie to the diamond world, I found myself overwhelmed ( understatement ) when I started my search. I knew my girlfriend was a fan of the cushion shape - but that's all I've had to go on. As many others before me, I was referred to blue nile - but was a bit thrown off by the fact that pretty much everything was 'gia triple excellent' without much more information to the buyer. This is enough to go on for some people , but made me a bit nervous. I've seen some 'triple excellent' stones that look 100X better than others in real life, so the broadness of GIA's grading made me nervous.

After doing some initial research - these are some basic concepts I think I understand.

1.) The four C's are great. However, when considering all 'eye clean' stones, cut quality is the factor that matters most in a diamond's optics/brilliance - is this right?
That's what we advise here on PS, yes Unfortunately only AGSL will assign a cut grade for cushion shaped diamonds (and even then I wouldn't trust their assignment for non-branded cushions) so determining "cut quality" by the numbers on the report is an impossible task; at the very least you really need good close-up photos.

Beyond that , clarity and color play a role to an extent, but if the stone is 'eye' clean, it would be hard to tell between an IF, F, or VVS1/2? vs D, E, F, G?
Yes, clarity is boolean - either it's clean to your specifications or it isn't, and if a stone is clean to your specifications there isn't any reason to go higher unless you particularly want high clarity for other reasons (cultural preferences, etc.). The vendors often recommended on PS will specify what they mean by "eye-clean"

(ex. WF's definition here: http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/news/clarity-the-whiteflash-definition-of.htm
'No inclusions visible face-up at a distance of 8-10 inches in natural lighting to a person with 20/20 vision.')

but that definition may not meet your requirements (ie. Do you want to be sure you don't see any inclusions from 5" face-up? From the sides?), so you need to decide what you are looking for and ask if stones you're interested in meet your specifications. In practice if "eye-clean" face-up (from whatever distance) is your requirement you won't need to go above VS1.

if they were both 'ideal' / 'excellent' cuts?

2.) In cushion cut, the 'hearts and arrows' setting seems to be much more rare - the 'crushed ice' appearance is what I see a lot, but I far prefer the former. Does this make it worth more from a value standpoint or simply harder to find?
Branded H&A cushions like the BGDs you've listed below are rarer (precision-cutting is the goal, not a happy by-product, and requires more time and skill and wastes more of the rough), cost more from you as a buyer (the extra cost to manufacture is passed on to the consumer, and branded stones often come with generous trade-in/buyback/upgrade policies), and will sell for more. As consumers selling diamonds on the secondary market is a great way to lose a ton of money very quickly, though, so best to just buy based on what you like looking at rather than what might be more 'valuable' by some definition or projection

3.) a GIA cert. is a great place to start - but there is heavy variation in quality of cut and eye appearance in the 'triple excellent' stones. AGS seems to do a much better job at quantifying the 'eye bling' or optics of a stone than GIA does. This is what turned me off from blue nile. They have a heck of a lot of 'signature ideal' or 'triple excellent' stones with vastly varying prices - not being able to see them makes it a bit tough to decipher which one is better. Whenever i've seen a AGS '0' stone it's pretty much hands down had killer brilliance in real life.
GIA doesn't grade cut for fancy shapes at all, so if having a report that specifies that a stone is well-cut is important to you then AGSL really is your only option. Many branded stones are sent to AGSL so if you want a H&A cushion type you'll be fine on this front. If you don't want a branded stone many vendors most often recommended on PS will have access to light reflector technologies (like the ASET scope) and can take photos to help you judge without having the stone in-hand. Of course these tools have pros and cons (the PS collective greatly underestimates/undervalues the cons), and ultimately I firmly believe that you should work with a trusted (and proven) vendor and actually trust his/her eyes above any tool.

Here is my question: What factors do I TRULY need to consider before investing in a cushion stone?

I know I want a 2 - 2.5 carat stone, with exceptional cut quality ( AGS "0" seems to be a good stamp ) . my Budget is between 40-45k for the stone and setting. I'm a little bit confused on how much stock I need to put into color ( i.e., should I only shoot for D, E, F, or will 'G' still look fantastic? ) , and clarity ( Should I hold out for VVS2 or higher, or is VS1/vs2 going to look great on a AGS '0' rock? ) - I know all shapes are different..which factors will matter more for a cushion?

Some people are more colour-sensitive than others. For a stone of this flavour of cut (and this precision cut quality!) a casual observer who looks at a G/H won't see anything but "sparkly white diamond!!", but on close observation the keen-eyed might see some colour in a G or H, especially from the side or in comparison with a higher-coloured stone. If you know your intended would like a white diamond I recommend staying at H or above, but I do suggest taking her to look at some stones in-person to find out where your/her real-world preferences and tolerances lie. I personally actually prefer stones in the J-M range over higher-coloured stones, but most people want 'as white as possible' - no wrong answer here

Here are a few I'm considering, any advice / opinions? Brian gavin seems to be one of the few places that has AGS cert'd hearts and arrows cushions. Leon mege in nyc seems to have some crazy crazy prices on good stones but no pics or certificates online. I turn 30 this spring and am hoping to pop the question before then. So i've got a little time to do more research / searching. Thanks in advance!

Do you have a setting in-mind? It is easier and safer to get both stone and setting from the same vendor if possible.
- The 2.015 F VS1 you've listed below is lovely.
- Leon Mege makes beautiful handforged settings and offers lower pricepoints on his settings if you also purchase the stone from him - and only makes certain settings for his stones.
- Good Old Gold specialises in unique and branded stones and provides more information on each stone than any other PS-beloved vendor. Their August Vintage Cushions are immensely popular on here (they're precision-cut into an antique style, vs. precision-cut into the modern H&A style like the BGDs you found), and they also sell H&A cushions and non-branded and non-precision-cut cushions.
- Victor Canera is another vendor who is popular for his handforged settings - and he's recently begun selling his own line of precision-cut antique-style cushions that are very similar in flavour to GOG's AVCs. Victor Canera and Good Old Gold have an agreement - VC will not set GOG AVCs. Leon Mege and Good Old Gold have a similar agreement - LM will not set GOG AVCs.
- Diamonds By Lauren does both handforging and casting, and they also have a line of precision cut antique-style cushions. DBL's Signature cushions and GOG's AVCs are both designed and cut in collaboration with the same cutter - who also posts here on PS but they're cut to achieve different goals (and feature different flavours of faceting).
- James Allen has a multitude of non-precision-cut non-branded cushions but doesn't provide nearly as much information on them, and you'll want to solicit an independent appraiser's educated opinion.
- Brilliantly Engaged does both handforging and casting, and they have a variety of lines of cushions - some precision cut and some not, some branded and some unbranded.
- For antique cushions (not precision-cut antique-style but true antiques) Old World Diamonds, Jewels by Grace, and Love Affair Diamonds are all wonderful to work with.


http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.015-f-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104066027002

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.091-f-vvs2-cushion-diamond-ags-104067040002

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/3.070-j-vvs2-cushion-diamond-ags-104067040004

 

[instariz00]

so helpful! Thanks! I forgot to mention GOG - i emailed them today. adore the brellia hearts and arrows cushions they have.

 

[Gypsy]

Your choices aren't crushed ice or hearts and arrows.

There are a ton of great cushions that are generic AND branded that are not either of those. There are antique cushions, and modern cushions.

Read all the posts in this thread, and follow the links I post:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-looking-for-help-choosing-cushion-cut-diamond-to-oz.205195/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-and-looking-for-help-choosing-cushion-cut-diamond-to-oz.205195/[/URL]

Then all the posts in this one:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-need-opinions-about-this-cushion-cut-diamond-pics.206771/#post-3763672#p3763672']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-need-opinions-about-this-cushion-cut-diamond-pics.206771/#post-3763672#p3763672[/URL]


WHAT DID YOUR LADY SAY SHE WANTS?
Some people who want cushions will not be happy with a hearts and arrows, as they look like round brilliants but well, square.

Here are some of the varieties you can explore.
This is a crushed ice cushion: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/2.04-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323249

Some are branded
http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/2-09ct-h-vs1-august-vintage-cushion-diamond.html
http://www.brilliantlyengaged.com/1.02-carat-d-vvs2-mark-t-modern-cushion-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-23836.html
www.brilliantlyengaged.com/2.12-carat-f-si1-royal-chandelier-cushion-brilliant-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-5164.html
www.brilliantlyengaged.com/2.01-carat-g-vs1-royal-chandelier-cushion-brilliant-cushion-cut-diamond-gid-20691.html

And there are TONS of gorgeous generic, non-crushed ice cushions out there. And going with a generic cushion, will save you money per carat and let you get a larger stone. Or... just save you money. Here are some examples.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/2.16-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-145408
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/2.04-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-155367
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/3.01-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-323271
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/2.04-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-358270

 

[Gypsy]

If you do want Hearts and Arrows: http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD04403038

The blue nile hearts and arrows have precision cutting and performance that can go head to head with the Briella or the BGD cushions and a more 'pillowy' shape that personally, I think is important and appealing. Plus they are more budget friendly.

They do have a GCAL report and others who have ought them have have them ASET out beautifully.

 

[noscrusir]

You have a very healthy budget and should be able to get exactly what you want if you're aiming in the 2-2.5 carat range. Review the aforementioned information to see what type of cushion appeals to your sig. other (or yourself if so lucky!). If you're looking to avoid the crushed ice look, generally the more popular types out there are: generic 4 main and 8 main cushion modifieds, chunky-style antique cushions, and H&A.

Examples of some branded types are: BGD Signature (H&A), GOG August Vintage Cushions, GOG Brellia, BE Mark T Cushions, BE Royal Chandelier, and BN Signature Cushion (H&A). Victor Canera and others also have their own line of cushions and as you will see, there's often a premium for some of these branded stones.

If you're aiming for colorless, anything in D-F (or even G) should suffice and clarity, though subjective, I'd say VVS1 - VS2 (or even SI1 if eye-clean). Cushions have a unique personality and life of their own. I suggest you see the actual diamond in person if possible or have a video & ASET image for anything before you buy. I've looked at some of the BGD signature stones in person if you have any questions.

Try checking out the vast visual selection at James Allen and Enchanted Diamonds to get a great look at what's out there. You'll see there's a bunch of lack-luster stones but if you're spending that much, you should not settle for anything less than ideal.