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Phoenix cut in Philly?

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enbcfsobe

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My BF and I are just starting to look for a ring. I am super-indecisive, but the one thing I thought I had figured out was that I wanted a round diamond. I just wasn''t into the fancy shapes.
Then ... the B&M I went to (who my parents and I have used, mostly for custom gold work/repairs) showed me a few Phoenix-cut stones, and I was quite intrigued. Because there are (supposedly) not very many suppliers, I wouldn''t even know where to go to start a comparison shopping process for such a stone. There is hardly anything online -- the only stuff with prices is pre-set.

Does anyone have an opinion on whether this is a worthwhile cut to look at?
Is the extra depth problematic/wasteful?
Should they be more, or less, expensive than a similar-sized round?
What about the grading situation -- the ones he had were EGL. How bad is that?
Anyone know where else in Philly to seek out a comparison or have suggestions on where to shop generally?

My BF worries way less about this, other than being very concerned that he gets something I am happy with. He would just as soon pick something with a fairly good grading report and pay whatever was asked within his budget (probably about $9-10K). I, however, am somewhat obsessed with getting exactly the right and best thing for the money he spends, particularly because I haven''t yet found a setting I love and may insist on custom. I am, overall, overwhelmed by the number of things to consider and the number of options. Plus, my setting choices will be different if its not round...so getting to a decision on shape, at least, would be a big help.

Any thoughts on this apparently unusual diamond shape would be appreciated!
 

Maisie

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I''m sorry that I can''t advise you about the Phoenix cut stone. I just wanted to say that you should really take your time and enjoy this process. Its so exciting to be looking for your engagement ring!! I would spend as much time as possible shopping around and trying lots of different styles on. There is no hurry


Good luck and enjoy your search!!

Maisie
 

enbcfsobe

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thanks for the support. apparently no one has opinions on phoenix cut, or they just don''t have the heart to tell me how awful they are.
 

Kaleigh

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Date: 1/17/2007 6:20:21 PM
Author: enbcfsobe
thanks for the support. apparently no one has opinions on phoenix cut, or they just don''t have the heart to tell me how awful they are.
It could be that we don''t know much about it?? I have never heard of it until now... And I live outside Philly. Where did you see it???
 

Gypsy

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Well I did a seach on MSN and it looks like a cut cornered radiant from the very small picture on this site. As you've seen it person, would you say that's accurate? What did you like about it most? Was it the rectangular shape with the cut corners? Was it the fire (and if so did you take it outside, away from the jewelers lights?)... or was it the whole package. I know that there are a few other cut corner branded rectangular cuts-- crisscut is one, the ohter one starts with a T and was at a jeweler here Mara and I went to... those too are pretty expensive per carat, though.

If I can advise:
Sit down and think about what your priorities are in a diamond. Cut quality, size, shape, color... etc. If size is at the top of that... I would not recommend a branded diamond. You have to be pleased with it overall, and if you get the shape/cut you want, but have to sacrifice on something key to get it... you may end up being dissatisfied.

http://www.whibleys.com/diamonds.html

ETA: Tycoon cut is the one Mara and I saw... I recently read that radiants trap color, that's why they are so popular with colored diamonds... and that fits with the problems Mara and I saw with the Tycoon... it too was a modified radiant cut and BOY did those puppies look yellow. We saw an F that frankly, I would have pegged as a J if someone had asked me. Or lower, considering Mara's J is white and this puppy was yellow. I don't know if the Pheonix would have that same problem... but it might be something to watch out for.
 

diagem

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Date: 1/17/2007 6:30:38 PM
Author: Gypsy
Well I did a seach on MSN and it looks like a cut cornered radiant from the very small picture on this site. As you''ve seen it person, would you say that''s accurate? What did you like about it most? Was it the rectangular shape with the cut corners? Was it the fire (and if so did you take it outside, away from the jewelers lights?)... or was it the whole package. I know that there are a few other cut corner branded rectangular cuts-- crisscut is one, the ohter one starts with a T and was at a jeweler here Mara and I went to... those too are pretty expensive per carat, though.

If I can advise:
Sit down and think about what your priorities are in a diamond. Cut quality, size, shape, color... etc. If size is at the top of that... I would not recommend a branded diamond. You have to be pleased with it overall, and if you get the shape/cut you want, but have to sacrifice on something key to get it... you may end up being dissatisfied.

http://www.whibleys.com/diamonds.html
30 some more facets than a 57 facet round does NOT mean better or livelier!!!
It could have the oposite effect.
 

enbcfsobe

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thanks for the input. the UK sites that were linked are indeed the cut I was talking about. There were a few things I liked, some of which I obviously need to investigate further:

1. sparkle -- it really did seem to have more fire and brilliance (to the extent I can tell what those are) than the round stones I saw, but I should probably (a) take it outside and (b) find a really well-cut round stone to compare?

2. uniqueness -- it wasn''t quite oval and wasn''t quite rectangular; I personally like it horizontally better than vertically oriented on the finger, but (a) will that make my carrot-shaped fingers look fatter at the bottom and (b) will the uniqueness mean it has less value should I ever want to resell

3. name -- obviously, a terrible reason, but the whole idea of strenth and rebirth was interesting (maybe I''ve just read too much Harry Potter...); its not that the brand will impress anyone, since its virtually unkown.

Other problems I''m concerned about:

1. depth -- size isn''t my most important factor (in fact, I thought the 1.5-2 carat stones looked ridiculous on me, like I was wearing something fake or that belonged to my grandma) BUT these are cut deep, and I feel like he''d be paying for a lot of weight that no one would see, all in the name of sparkle that might be had in a well-cut round.

2. EGL cert -- how big of a problem is this? should this make it cheaper than a similarly sized round?

3. price comparison -- how can I figure what''s a fair price when no one has these for me to compare??

Sigh...
 

enbcfsobe

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Kaliegh -- I saw it at My Jewel Shop in Jenkintown (near Willow Grove).
 

oldminer

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I have not heard of a Phoenix cut before. Maybe Robbins 8th & Walnut has such a stone since they carry many branded products and designer lines. My Jewel Shop could also be a source as someone suggested. Many brands are not all that special, but if the seller can convince you of the "difference" in the particular brand, then you can''t shop for any substitute. It can be just a game. There are some brands with special merit that simply have few competitors, too. It is very difficult to knwo which sort of "brand" you are being shown.
 

enbcfsobe

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This is the OP -- the ones I looked at were at My Jewel Shop. I've gone to Dr. Rob to fix gold jewery before, and for gifts (he has an interesting selection of artists who work in silver and gold, as well as his own work). So that was the first (and only) place we looked so far. I will call and see if Robbins carries these.
Has anyone worked with M.J.S. for e-rings before? They had what I thought to be a fair selection of stones (some GIA, many EGL), but, again, I have nothing to compare that to. Instead of asking to see what they have, should I be asking for specific criteria (based on the 4Cs, type of cert, price, etc.?)??

In the absence of comparators, would an IdealScope be a worthwhile thing to try on this cut? Or will it be useless without some standard to compare it to?

This pic should show the facet plan for the Phoenix cut:



See what I mean about the depth? Is this just a waste of weight?? Is this just a nice gimmick, or can this really perform well?



 

Gypsy

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I''m gonna bump you cause now I''m curious. It looks part princess from the plot... part... cushion or radiant? I like the "not quite rectangular, not quite oval " shape of it though. Wonder what the cut experts will say; hopefully they will chime in!
 

oldminer

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It reminds me of a princess cut with cut corners. Princess cuts and Radiant cuts when they are rectangular tend to have less light return in some zones than in other zones. This is kind of like the bow tie effect in a pear or marquise cut, but the zones tend to be more rectangular across the center than bow tie shaped. Some rectangular stones show a girdle reflection under the table when it is only tilted slightly. You need to look closely for an untrained eye to discover any problems. It is more likely that an untrained eye will miss some problems no matter how much you look.

The breakage of pointed corners on princess cuts may lead cutters to design more setter friendly designs that won''t be so easily broekn during setting. Increasing the durability of an expensive gem is a good thing. I don''t have a problem with cut corner shapes.
 

Gypsy

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I just looked at the certs and it seems to face up about the same as an Emerald Cut does at 1 carat. 5 x 7 about.
 

enbcfsobe

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I wouldn''t have the foggiest idea what to look for in terms of "problems" -- thats one of the things that worries me about going with something like this. At least with a round there are plenty of comparators and advice about what to look for...

I took a look at the IGAT search, too -- there are a lot of GCL reports (which I have not seen mentioned before). There are some EGLs. Overall, most of the grading seems to date back to at least 2001 (there were a few more recent). Is that a sign that this didn''t sell well overall?? Are these reports reliable? If I were to seriously consider buying this cut, is this something that should be appraised pre-purchase? Will an appraiser know what to look for that I can''t see even in an odd cut?
 

:)

Brilliant_Rock
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Interesting, I had never heard of this cut!

EGL USA, or EGL elsewhere? EGL USA I would feel better about (esp if you can see it with your own eyes). EGL elsewhere, well, they can be off by 2 color grades and two clarities (as they were with an old stone of mine!)
If you do purchase, definitely get it appraised by an independent appraiser
 
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