pave setting question

[Scintillating]

Ally that just stinks.

Scintillating...

 

[Mara]

some jewelers dont agree on eternity micropave for daily use, my original jeweler was hugely against it for a daily wear...he thought it would be too delicate and that most settings did not have enough ''metal'' to hold each diamond in securely. i definitely know that how i wear my rings...i would never have lasted with micropave or similar...i''d be really unhappy. i really wear my rings and wear them well.

 

[Shay37]

Oh my goodness. I cannot believe that you are having problems again. Lisa, I am so sorry to hear you lost a stone in your lovely ring as well. Did it seem as if the jeweler were doing that whole, "well, if you had bought it from me, you wouldn''t be having these problems." schtick. I hate when they do that. Your ring is very well made from what I could see in the pics and quite substantial looking as well. Ally, stop pushing on the stones. Maybe Leon was having a bad day when this ring was made, or maybe the stones are not loose at all. I would definitely have them checked for your own peace of mind though. Your ring is so beautiful that I hate to see you give it up.

As far as the whole pave issue, I don''t know if they are inherently more troublesome or if all rings will have some issue depending on the type. I can tell you I wear mine for everything except dishes and showering and cooking. I don''t want to gum up the stones with gunk or knock it on something in the dishpan. The rest of the time, I wear it, even to sleep. Once a week I examine the ring under the loupe to check the stones, and they all seem quite secure in their teeny tiny prongs. I''m loving mine, but that''s probably because I haven''t had a problem yet. It has been only a little over a month. However, I think that because of the way I wear my rings, if it were something not securely set, I would have lost a stone right away. That has not happened. (oooh, I hate to make that statement) I don''t want to jinx myself.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do, but I hope that nothing is wrong and you get to keep your beautiful set.


Lisa, call Pete and get that taken care of. It''s too beautiful of a ring to sit unworn in your jewelry box.

shay

 

[pebbles]

I really should start my own thread on this, but I just discovered today that one of the stones of my shared prong mounting is lower than the other stones! You don''t notice it when you look straight down on the ring, but it''s really noticable when you look at it from the side. It''s so low that from the side it looks like the stone is missing. I''ve only had this setting a few weeks and I totally baby it!

I examined the setting with a loupe before I bought it and it definitely wasn''t like this before my stone was set.

This one wasn''t custom made, but it certainly wasn''t cheap!

My grandmother too had a pave ring that she wore daily and never once had any problems with it.

What the heck is going on!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/2/2005 5:52:10 PM
Author: Mara
some jewelers dont agree on eternity micropave for daily use, my original jeweler was hugely against it for a daily wear...he thought it would be too delicate and that most settings did not have enough 'metal' to hold each diamond in securely.

It's interesting to hear this, because this pretty much mirrors what Brian and WF were saying when Ally asked them to make this ring initially......their mantra at the time was "there HAS to be enough metal in the ring to make stones secure and and make the ring durable." Making it too thin means not enough metal and therefore compromised durability.

It would appear their concerns were rightly warranted.

 

[allycat0303]

Shay: You're too funny. Actually, I'm not touching the stones anymore, if they were destined to fall out, then they will. Actually, my boyfriend and I were discussing this tonight.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-1829026.htm#

. He thought we should slap that baby into a shared prong setting.....and suddenly, I don't see how this is a lose/lose situation. Or the second one:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-1335324.htm (if the inclusions are eyeclean)

Funny thing actually, initially he had a much bigger budget then we spent. He basically deposited money in a special "Ally" account, and when the time came, he said I could chose whatever I wanted. Now I ended chosing something that was tiny, compared to how much he wanted to buy. And for a lot less money (he calls me the most stingy girl on earth) maybe all the problems with the setting is a sign. In any case, I don't want to stress anymore over this setting . I think it's well made, because the diamonds on the band seem to be very solid. It's just the diamonds behind the prongs (which the more I think about might be some quirky design problem....maybe if I'd asked for an airline, Leon would have had more space to add metal..who knows?)

So hijacking my own thread, any opinons on either of these stones? Premature maybe cause the setting stones are still there as of tonight, but honestly, we aren't too confident. I'm totally destressed over the setting now. Maybe because my boyfriend and I had a serious talk about the options

Aldj, when I asked Brian of WF to make the band, he was referring to the width of the band not being large enough, that was about < 2mm band with holes drilled into it, being too thin and therefore danger of the metal band being bent, and then the diamonds being lost.

I think Mara (correct me if I'm wrong) might have meant that there isn't enough metal (beads?) holding each individual diamond.

 

[widget]

Wow...this whole thread is disheartening...

I hope everyone gets these things sorted out. It''s such a shame....I think e-rings should be sturdy enough to be worn 24/7 WORRY FREE if someone wants to...

They must have done something different in "the olden days"...

widget

 

[Mara]

Actually Ally, my jeweler meant the metal on the bottom of the rings as well, notjust the beads, and that has to do with width and also depth of the band...he felt that the rings could be easily bent, losing stones OR they could be dislodged more easily if the beads were not assisted by enough metal either on the sides or the bottom I guess. He told a few stories of lost melee and bent rings and I said OKAY! UNCLE!!! Make them prong set!

 

[Demelza]

Ally--those diamonds both look amazing!!!! Of course, in my book, the bigger the better, so I would lean towards the 2.1 ct stone, but you need to make sure it's 100% eyeclean. The 1.8 looks great too and a very difficult size to find. I don't think you could go wrong with either of those stones.

I totally understand you having bad feelings about this mounting. Or at least wanting something that is more practical as an ering. It has been nothing but a headache since you got it and now to find more loose stones? Well, that would have me at the end of my rope too. Just curious, does Leon know that you're having continued problems?? If so, what does he say?

 

[allycat0303]

Mara, I'm begining to wonder why anyone makes pave at all...is it that it can simply not be done unless you have a 2.5 mm + metal surface to work on? I'm a bit confused though, because Michael B rings look to me like some diamond encrusted pave (with tiny bands too) but so far nothing yet on diamonds falling out. And there's also the ritani endless love (although maybe that's not micropave?) which I had inquired about, and they said there were no problems.

And Pebbles has just said that her shared prong stones are depressed too. So are shared prong any safer? Or is individual (non shared prong the way to go?)

Actually maybe I should start another thread, "What is the safest way to set those eternity style bands?"

Demelza: Well Leon says that if they fall out, he'll replace them. I don't want to send the ring back just to be checked, and the jewelers here don't know what to do with it. Plus I'm sure you're aware that the US border is about to implement PASSPORT thingy, and I haven't ordered mine yet, so I won't be able to go to the US to pick it up..... In any case, your shared prong eternity set just make me a bit crazed

.

It's a shame that I there isn't an H SI1 with some flour in the 2 carat range. But that ideal scope image on the 1.8, I don't for some reason it grabs me. I better calm down....

 

[Demelza]

What about going with a Ritani or Michael B? Both of those would be considered micropave, but we definitely haven't heard about those stones falling out all the time. Or at all. I don't know if my SP set made you a bit crazed in a good way or in a worried way. Most of my problems were a result of wearing two rings together. If you want to create a similar look to what you had, I'd go for a Ritani or MB.

ETA I didn't know you could get over the border now without a passport. I always carry mine with me. I guess a birth certificate might suffice. When is that going to change?

 

[mrssalvo]

ally, the safest eternity band settings are the ones made like mara''s that have 4 prongs holding the stones in. I have also heard that Memoire makes a shared prong setting that has extra metal or something to keep the stones from damaging another ring. I read here that Signed Pieces is working on redesigning their bands. Honestly, if you''re worried about the pave, unless you get a set like mara''s I think you''d worry about the shared prong set too. maybe look into going half eternity? You also need to think about maintainance since you''re not in the US. You don''t want to have to ship your ring back and forth every time there is a problem...

I have done a lot of research on the shared prong bands and have decided they are not for me, way to much to worry about for a gal like me who likes to wear my rings all the time.

 

[Demelza]

Mrs S--what do you think of Michael B or Ritani? Do you think those are asking for trouble too? Also, what would you be worried about with a shared-prong setting worn on its own? I guess I''ve been so focused lately on what can happen when 2 shared prong rings are worn together that I hadn''t considered what could happen when worn on its own.

 

[Mara]

Honestly I don't know what to think anymore. Is there a safe way to have micropave? It seems like some have problems, some don't. Some old settings from early 1900's are still hanging around with all their stones. Others have stuff falling out one/two/four weeks after getting the setting. It would lead one to think maybe it was poor worksmanship but these settings are EXPENSIVE, not cheap in the least as someone else already pointed out. It really makes you shake your head. Just the nature of the setting or bad worksmanship/poor attention to detail? Seems so odd.

Both of those stones look great Ally but of course I like the second larger one...if its eye clean it'd be a great choice. It looks very nice from the photo and the inclusions look white!! YUM.

ETA: re: pave and Michael B etc...my jeweler was originally speaking directly about MB settings when we were discussing my rings, I loved the MB sets and wanted something like that and he was saying there was just not enough metal on those rings to secure those stones long-term with daily use.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 11/2/2005 10:05:12 PM
Author: Demelza
What about going with a Ritani or Michael B? Both of those would be considered micropave, but we definitely haven''t heard about those stones falling out all the time. Or at all. I don''t know if my SP set made you a bit crazed in a good way or in a worried way. Most of my problems were a result of wearing two rings together. If you want to create a similar look to what you had, I''d go for a Ritani or MB.


ETA I didn''t know you could get over the border now without a passport. I always carry mine with me. I guess a birth certificate might suffice. When is that going to change?

I have heard very good things about the quality of Ritani. Butterfly 17 said somewhere that she puts her''s in her ultrasonic and has never lost a stone. If you love the micropave look I think either of these designers would be awesome..

You might email Bill Pearlman and see what he knows about stones falling out of the Michael b or Ritani settings. He mentioned in an earlier thread that he sells over 100 of michael b settings a year so if there are problems he''d be the one who would know.

 

[Mara]

That''s another idea...the Ritani rings..they are actually more channel set pave...which would be great for wearing the bands side by side/flush and also I think channel is safer than regular ole micropave. I love Kayla''s rings!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 11/2/2005 10:09:37 PM
Author: Demelza
Mrs S--what do you think of Michael B or Ritani? Do you think those are asking for trouble too? Also, what would you be worried about with a shared-prong setting worn on its own? I guess I''ve been so focused lately on what can happen when 2 shared prong rings are worn together that I hadn''t considered what could happen when worn on its own.

I think a shared-prong on it''s own would be fine. I am just way more careful when I have it on verses my old plain wedding set that I wore 24/7 without giving it a second thought.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 11/2/2005 10:11:00 PM
Author: Mara




ETA: re: pave and Michael B etc...my jeweler was originally speaking directly about MB settings when we were discussing my rings, I loved the MB sets and wanted something like that and he was saying there was just not enough metal on those rings to secure those stones long-term with daily use.

I even think I remember Bill saying you shouldn't do certain activities with a Michael b ring on. someone posted here about her micheal b ring bending. I love the look but with a delicate setting like his, I agree, I don't think they would fair well for someone who wants to wear them all the time.

I love Butterfly's set too and I think Ritani is designed for more every day wear..at least that's what it says on their website

 

[allycat0303]

Demelza,

No in a good way cause I think it's gorgeous. Although I've been following your thread and I think you may have a supercert tiffany replica now? I know you had a solitaire fiasco, then went back to shared prong, and did you change again?

I won't be wearing a wedding band. So all I need to think about is stones falling out. And not the diamond band rubbing against them.

I'm not crazed about the ritani (I personally don't like the metal bars) and the michael B is probably hideously expensive. If I get an inexpensive setting my boyfriend would probably let me keep the diamond he proposed with

. Cause we would still be in our original budget. I just took another peak at your original SP setting. Now I'll just try and trap down your diamond stats.

I think it's changing sometime in Decemeber (I'm not 100% sure) but soon. Before it was birth certificate and driver's permit.


Mrsalvo: I'm not worried about the prong set in Montreal actually. The problem with my Leon is the stone I lost (and having problems with) is behind the claw. It's actually half the size of the rest of the diamonds in the halo. Actually the reason no one wants to work on it, is that they think (although no one is sure) that the center diamond has to be removed and the claw prongs fiddled with. Although I'm not sure that's the case at all, because Leon said he didn't have to remove it. I think it's a case of them a) Not doing micropave work here b) not knowing the ring well. However, íf I do decide to get a shared prong setting in the future, I'll take a pic to a local jeweler and assure that they can work on it.

So Mara's prong set is probably the easiest/hassle free way to go. I have prong set eternity bands and haven't had a problem, so maybe I shouldn't have messed with a good thing.

Jeez. I wonder what kind of activities you can't wear a Michael B with? Maybe pave rings are just "Special occasions" rings, and not made for daily wear. I'm kind of intrested in knowing if those 100+ pave rings were engagement rings or the fancy, ornate jewelery that's worn only to a special dinner.

 

[Demelza]

Date: 11/2/2005 10:20:22 PM
Author: allycat0303
Demelza,



No in a good way cause I think it''s gorgeous. Although I''ve been following your thread and I think you may have a supercert tiffany replica now? I know you had a solitaire fiasco, then went back to shared prong, and did you change again?

I won''t be wearing a wedding band. So all I need to think about is stones falling out. And not the diamond band rubbing against them.


I''m not crazed about the ritani (I personally don''t like the metal bars) and the michael B is probably hideously expensive. If I get an inexpensive setting my boyfriend would probably let me keep the diamond he proposed with

. Cause we would still be in our original budget. I just took another peak at your original SP setting. Now I''ll just try and trap down your diamond stats.

I know, I know, it''s hard to follow what I''m up to with all these changes. When I upgraded my stone from a 1.53 to a 2.35, I had SP change out the head. Had problems with that, went with a simple 4 prong soliatire from Stuller (not Solstice), jeweler messed up head trying to lower stone, went back to SP mounting, now I''m finally at the finish line with my Superbcert Tiffany replica!! Exhausting!!

That would be AWESOME if you could keep the Leon ring in tact!!!! Oh, how amazing to have that AND a new beautiful diamond in a shared prong (or whatever) setting!!! That''s the best of all possible worlds. I can''t imagine there isn''t a jeweler in all of Montreal that can''t tighten a loose stone in a shared-prong setting. I''ve seen them do it and it looks like just a matter of taking some piers and squeezing. Might be wrong about that, but it seems pretty simple.

 

[Scintillating]

Okay, this whole thing with Ally's ring has me thinking.
We're going to see Leon friday to design our setting.
We wanted something like GingerBcookie's ring - But with 1 side of pave, the top.
I initially wanted a 2mm band. Ritani's are even thinner than that, so I thought it was doable.
Now I'm thinking we should go wider. How wide should I go to be safe but still be thin and delicate?
My finger is the same size as Ally's a little over 4.5 so it's loose.

I'm tempted to ask Ally to take her setting off her hands. (hee, so to speak.)
But we really can't afford hers. Shrug.

Sorry to hijack. I thought this was a good place to ask the question.
We're leaving for NYC tommorrow afternoon - so if everyone could answer this promptly it would be great.
Danke.

Scintillating...

 

[mrssalvo]

Scintillating- i think you''ll be fine going with 2mm one-sided pave. I know Whiteflash and others will make bands 2mm, they just don''t like to go any thinner.

 

[Kaleigh]

I would address your concerns with Leon and let him know of the problems that you are hearing about. My heart is breaking for Ally especially as this is her ering. Mine is a RHR, so I can deal. I would make sure you get something you don''t have to babysit 24/7, that would be no fun at all. I''m not sure why we are having problems. I read all about leon when I first joined PS almost a year ago and Reena was talking about her ring. So naturally I was shocked to hear these stories. If I were you I would have him design a ring you don''t have to baby.

 

[Mara]

Ritani''s are channel set, not pave/bead so that is why I think they can go thinner and not have problems with lost stones or too little metal.

In actuality, you will be surprised at how thin 2mm is on the finger. Trying on the WF halo rings, they looked SO delicate on my fingers...and I think they were 2.1mm or something. Everyone always wants things as thin as possible but 2mm is very thin.

 

[allycat0303]

Scintillating,

My band is 2 mm, and honestly, the stones seem pretty solid, as I said, it's a tiny, tiny halo stone. Although I'm going to have to tell you that I'm pretty sure (90%) sure that Cute lost her stone on the band. Leon won't go under 2mm for stability of the band either. Although what's really cool about Leon (and really I think it's his specialty) is that he makes a 2mm appear smaller. I swear this is true. I have a 2mm eternity band, and when I first saw my e-ring I thought it was smaller then 2 mm, but wearing both together, they are the exact same size. Of course yours will also be 1 sided pave, so maybe that will add some stability?? Of course you can also ask Leon to do it a bit bigger and he'll make it look like a 2mm. I'm not quite sure what it is about the ring that does this, but it's very pretty.

And my band at 2mm (three sided pave) honestly seems to be extremely solid. So I wouldn't worry. I love Ginger's ring. Beautiful choice.

Lisa: You're too sweet. Honestly, this ring has given me plenty of headaches, but my boyfriend is so anxious to make me happy that I'm not going to be upset about it. He's given plenty of options that are all viable, and very sweet, so I think if a stone does come out, it will only be an upgrade. And he's going to let me keep it either way, so I'm going to try to be chill about it. Although I have to admit, I keep looking at those stones under a magnifiying glass, trying to determine if I can see the beads etc. He's kind of upset that I can't wear the ring without worrying all the time. Takes the whole fun out of it. Actually, I've been engaged for 2 months, and I've only worn the ring to school twice! (Its been gone for so long, and then the stones sunk down), so no one knows I'm engaged. Although I suppose it would be easier to slip an upgrade in without giving anyone justifications or explanations

Demelza: So your stone is a 2.35. God. That's big. I think it's the perfect size though. I like the new setting too, very pretty, although I thought maybe it was the a bumped up old thread. Hopefully it's the last change. By

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/2/2005 10:11:00 PM
Author: Mara

It would lead one to think maybe it was poor workmanship but these settings are EXPENSIVE, not cheap in the least

Well, if I could charge extra for each typo I make in a research report, I would, wouldn't I

Things that get called 'pave' sometimes have nothing to do with it. Do you think someone might have tested the wearability of all these new sorts of settings that have appeared with the new love for pave? There is even CZ pave - and chances are the same settings from a couple of manufacturers get extremely diverse prices anyway. It definitely isn't an all handmade thing anymore fit for only the most expensive jewelry and most sophisticated jewelry makers. Of course this is in general a good thing & all, but then a stone may fall out here and there.

I might have some chance at choosing one way of pave over the other in person. With pictures at hand is another thing - I definitely could not swear to it.

There is a jewelers' mag on the net with articles explaining what amounts to 'good craftsmanship' for popular setting styles etc. Including pave and bead set. Try a search on www.professionaljeweler.com.


For example:

Page about pave

and

One about bead setting


The problem with these is that only few things are covered. About pave, say, the page explains what the basic scheme is, but the new types of cast settings, lattice and what not are not there and this doesn't necessarily do them justice. It would take a pretty thick dictionary to change this

Just 0.2, you know that

What happened with the tiny diamonds behind the prongs, Leon would know better than anyone. I would agree that they really are as small as possible and in a difficult position - but should just stay there. A bit of movement may not mean anything - the key thing is to have enough metal holding them in place, perhaps.... If they were larger or more exposed that movement may get then chipped but for half pointers or so, what's to chip?

 

[MissAva]

Date: 11/2/2005 10:05:12 PM
Author: Demelza
What about going with a Ritani or Michael B? Both of those would be considered micropave, but we definitely haven''t heard about those stones falling out all the time. Or at all. I don''t know if my SP set made you a bit crazed in a good way or in a worried way. Most of my problems were a result of wearing two rings together. If you want to create a similar look to what you had, I''d go for a Ritani or MB.

ETA I didn''t know you could get over the border now without a passport. I always carry mine with me. I guess a birth certificate might suffice. When is that going to change?

I only know one person with the Micheal B ring, she has the princess petite and wears it daily, even playing soccer and softball...no damage to it yet. This thread is really making me rethink the whole custom=better quality.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 11/3/2005 12:18:46 AM
Author: Matatora
This thread is really making me rethink the whole custom=better quality.

Yeah... same as buying diamonds outside top brand stores - it takes a pretty good lesson. I suspect RBC quality is allot easier to 'teach' than jewelry quality

but this may be biased by all there is about diamonds said and written here.

Anyway, brands don't go all that far with craftsmanship - it's a rather mixed bag, perhaps more so than with diamonds.

Pretty sad overall.

 

[BeaudryBabe]

Gosh, Ally, I am so sorry for all of your troubles. Your engagement ring is a big deal! Searching for it, buying and wearing it should be big events.

Well, you certainly have a great attitude about it. Let''s face it, we all love our jewels, but it''s not only about the ring.

Keep the good thoughts, can''t wait to see the upgrade!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/2/2005 9:01:52 PM
Author: allycat0303

Aldj, when I asked Brian of WF to make the band, he was referring to the width of the band not being large enough, that was about < 2mm band with holes drilled into it, being too thin and therefore danger of the metal band being bent, and then the diamonds being lost.

I think Mara (correct me if I''m wrong) might have meant that there isn''t enough metal (beads?) holding each individual diamond.

I understand, Ally, but the point is, it doesn''t matter *where* it is on the ring.......a stone needs a certain amount of metal around it, whether on the band or somewhere else, to preserve structural integrity and prevent stones from being lost.

You mentioned you pushed down on stones near the prongs, and they depressed. Why do you think that happened? Because the metal bent or gave a little bit. Platinum is malleable.....it''s not rock-solid. That means that in spots where it''s really thin, it may give a little.

The argument is the same no matter where it is on the ring......not enough structural support (metal) will increase the likelihood of losing stones.