Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - Help

[BitboyLA]

Hiya Folks -

I have an issue that I am seeking some educated assistance with. Please forgive me if I have posted in the wrong place - If you would provide me where to go (other than "straight to hell"), I would be more than happy to oblige.

Ok - In a nutshell scenario - I purchased parcel of bracelets from a website called Govdeals.com. I have made several purchases from this site before - with some being hits, and some markedly less-so. The problem here is I don't know what I have purchased - whether it is genuine...fake etc. This lot was a confiscation so there is no attached paperwork such as receipts or indicators of size, quantity or quality...nada. The text from the ad is below. I based my decision on only visual data and experience.

One indicator I use is a general measurement of what kind of response is the auction receiving? How many bidders etc. usually indicates that "someone knows something somewhere." The folks selling the items allowed prospective buyers to preview the items before bidding. Thats great - if you happen to be on the East Coast. I am in Los Angeles, but the auction volume was telling (at least I hope it was saying "Buy Me".) This particular auction had more than double the bids than a typical one. Unfortunately there is no way to contact any of those other bidders to see if one of them happened to see the lot in person.

The verbage for this particular auction was as follows:

"1 Lot consisting of (6) Items of Jewelry. It# 1: (1) - Silver Colored Bracelet with Stones, marked 14K; It# 2: (1) Silver Colored Bracelet with Stones, marked 14K; It# 3: (1) Silver Colored Bracelet with Stones, marked 14K; It# 4: (1) Silver Colored Bracelet with Stones, marked 14K; It# 5: (1) Silver Colored Bracelet with Stones, marked 14K; It# 6: (1) Silver Colored Bracelet with Stones, marked 14K. All listed items are in new/unused condition."

Now I am aware of the risks here and take them quite knowingly, but I usually stick to things that I know well - like precious metals. I generally stay a long ways away from diamonds - simply because of my lack of knowledge and the quantity of variances of stones. Oftentimes I will make purchases of items that happen to have diamonds or other stones in them, usually when the weight of the metal is substantial - leaving the diamond as a kind of "bonus" (if I can get it out of the setting intact.)

As I said, this lot did not come with any paperwork, other than the receipt. That means No certification of any kind. So exactly how screwed am I? I paid what I thought was a great price for the lot. Does anyone have a gut feeling or instinct? I do feel that the metal is genuine, as I don't see double clasps like that very often in anything other than gold and platinum. Some of the stones look to have intentional color to them (photo quality is so poor) - not "color" like the variances in natural stones (like when you line up a D-color next to a J-color) - But actual colors like pink, blue and yellow.

Thoughts (other than I am a dumbass) are greatly appreciated. Crappy photos are attached.

BB

 

[BitboyLA]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

The remainder

 

[braga123]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

go to a pawn shop and pretend to try to sell them..they will test them to see if they are genuine gold and diamonds...they will offer you a fraction of the price if they are real ...if they are real, it might be worth investing in appraisals

 

[BitboyLA]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

I have got to pay for it tomorrow so I was hoping someone on here had some real insight about this so I could get out with only a scarred purchase history and intact wallet as opposed to a straight beatdown. Alas, I guess I will just hope it goes my way. I would pray too, but frankly don't think God looks out for boneheaded buys.

I do have an actual diamond specific question for you folks - the first couple of photos look like the stones have actual color to them (pink, blue, yellow, purple etc.) Is this something actually found in diamonds, or is it a manmade effect?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

There's a variety of colors in that one bracelet, so my guess is they're tennis bracelets with colored stones. Do you think you paid a good price for a parcel of bracelets of that kind?

The purchase seems risky to me...if the stones were diamonds, someone would have most likely figured that out & listed them as such.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

go to a pawn shop and pretend to try to sell them..they will test them to see if they are genuine gold and diamonds...they will offer you a fraction of the price if they are real ...if they are real, it might be worth investing in appraisals

If you have them in hand, going to a jeweler might be good. I have a couple loose stones that were said to be sapphires and I found a Gemologist who tested and verified them w/out charge.

 

[LAJennifer]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

There's a variety of colors in that one bracelet, so my guess is they're tennis bracelets with colored stones. Do you think you paid a good price for a parcel of bracelets of that kind?

The purchase seems risky to me...if the stones were diamonds, someone would have most likely figured that out & listed them as such.

This. How much will this cost you? Is your goal to resell for profit?

 

[BitboyLA]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

The final selling price was $4700 and my intent is to resell for profit. If I had them in hand, this entire topic would be moot as I would get them ID'ed immediately. The risk:reward ratio is particularly high on this lot and the reason more info is not known is because this lot is offered by a police agency who recently cleared out their property room. Anything not claimed by a certain time period, gets sold. Many of the reps from the agencies say that they do not have the resources to get the items properly appraised but that seems very subjective as some agencies with go so far as to provide actual appraisals while others do absolutely nothing.

This is a much easier endeavor when the items are sold locally.....I jest need to know if they are diamonds or glass...

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

Wow that was an amazing risk you took. We can assume because they are marked 14K that they are 14K white gold but the rest is up in the air. You could have 14K + CZs in which case they are worth a fraction of what you paid, 14K + natural zircons, topaz or some other coloured stones in which case they are still worth a fraction of what you paid. 14K + very badly cut and included diamonds in which case they are worth around what you paid retail and finally 14K + decent quality diamonds in which case you might break even and if you are lucky make a little. I think they are stock from Kays and are probably a combination of what I have described. Really high quality diamonds are usually set in 18K white gold or platinum, for future reference. Hopefully you can take them to someone who will have good news about what they are not bad news....

 

[BitboyLA]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

Alas - Someone who speaks staight and true - Very much appreciated Arkeib1 ! That is exactly what I needed - someone to break it down in a way that tells me a likely outcome. You just likely saved me $5k or so. As I mentioned, I haven't paid for, or received this lot yet and after reading that - won't. Just the little factoid that valuable pieces are usually set in 18k or Platinum is invaluable. I didn't know that (I should, seeing as most of my auction buys are usually precious metal.)

The seller will not be happy about be rescinding my bids but I noticed something, even before you gave me the break down - that is I think that there is evidence that the Kay boxes are fakes - which can only lead me to believe that there are other items within the lot that will be fake. If you look at any Kay Jewelers box that you can find (type in Kay Jewelers bracelet into Google or go to the Kay website) you will see that all of them have the "Kay" logo in block font with the trademark "R" symbol to the right and the word "Jeweler" underneath in cursive font. You will also see that the text of the Logo etc is in gold-colored type. Two of the boxes that holds bracelets in three of the photos provided by the seller, are similar boxes as the one Kay uses but with a couple of differences. First the logo is incomplete, with just the work "Kay" - the trademark "R" is missing as well as the word "Jewelers" on both boxes in question. The other issue is the print color, which is supposed to me a metallic gold, instead is flat black.

While not an overwhelming difference - it is enough to provide make me question the authentic the bracelets are. Again Arkeib1, than you very much!

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

Glad you didn't get rooked. The box inconsistancies aren't unimportant -- good idea always to take note of something like that. A company trademark is essential to its business -- the missing R, indicating it's a registered trademark, is a big red flag. Businesses occasionally change the look of a trademark -- font, color, placement -- but not often because they try to make it instantly recognizable to the public. I'll bet those bracelets were knock-offs -- you may have dodged a big one.

--- Laurie

 

[ChristineRose]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

You really can't tell much from the pictures. They may very well be knockoffs--that would explain why the government seized them in the first place--but that doesn't tell you much about their resale value.

These sort of speculative purchases sometimes work out, sometimes don't, but there are general rules like don't spend more than 2%-5% of your investing fund on any one risky purchase. It sounds like $4,700 is more than 2% of what you are willing to lose.

If you are serious about this sort of thing, you should get a gold testing kit, a loupe, a set of scales, and a diamond tester, and learn how to use them. You might even consider taking the gemologist course offered by GIA. As it is, the pawn shop suggestion is a pretty good one. Genuine bracelets like this might be worth more than $5,000 each, with a resale value somewhere in the 10%-70% range, but probably realistically more like 30%. If they really are Kay bracelets, you should be able to find them and price them. So the bracelets could be resold for over $1,000 each, in which case all is good, or they could be knock-offs or fakes, in which case all is not good. Pawn shops and E-bay (look at sold items, not items for sale) are a good way to judge the actual sale value of similar items.

 

[partgypsy]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

Well, too many unknowns for me personally to invest 4700 on a purchase like this!
Assuming they are 14K white gold (still an assumption!) You don't know what kind of stones they are, if they are real or cz, if they are diamonds or not, their size, quality, etc anything that can give you an estimate of value. And then you would have to resell them, again without any paperwork, which seems risky.

Are you able to back out at this point or do you need to honor the purchase?

 

[BitboyLA]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

No - Lucklily they were not paid for (or received) yet - so it is a simple matter of refusing to pay for the lot WITH the explanation that in addition to an overwhelming majority vote of non-confidence, I will point out the subtleties of fraud that alerted me as well as the opinion of the folks at the Kay Jeweler's Webite - who, in no-uncertain terms, instructed me to steer clear of this particular purchase. While certainly glad to not waste $5000 - there is a residual sense of guilt - in that these items will likely be relisted and sold to someone else, who may not be as "aware" (or paranoid perhaps) and may end up losing big. In fact, when I write the gentleman in charge of the auction, whom I believe is a policeman, I will clarify that Kay Jewelers has said in clearly that these are likely fraudulent items and should NOT be resold. I definitely don't want to get into a "let-me-tell-you-what-your-job-description-is" with the Maryland PD, but I will certainly point it out.

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

They should appreciate that. I'm sure it wouldn't occur to them to ask Kay themselves, jewelry not being their field -- at least your heads-up should lead them to change the listing info, or better yet, dump the lot into the trash barrel.

 

[dk168]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

Be warned that if you take them to the pawn shop, they will need to test for metal type and content by applying acid to a small area of the bracelet, and it will strip the rhodium plating if present.

DK

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Party or Poorhouse? Purchased Lot Without Much Info - He

Alas - Someone who speaks staight and true - Very much appreciated Arkeib1 ! That is exactly what I needed - someone to break it down in a way that tells me a likely outcome. You just likely saved me $5k or so. As I mentioned, I haven't paid for, or received this lot yet and after reading that - won't. Just the little factoid that valuable pieces are usually set in 18k or Platinum is invaluable. I didn't know that (I should, seeing as most of my auction buys are usually precious metal.)

The seller will not be happy about be rescinding my bids but I noticed something, even before you gave me the break down - that is I think that there is evidence that the Kay boxes are fakes - which can only lead me to believe that there are other items within the lot that will be fake. If you look at any Kay Jewelers box that you can find (type in Kay Jewelers bracelet into Google or go to the Kay website) you will see that all of them have the "Kay" logo in block font with the trademark "R" symbol to the right and the word "Jeweler" underneath in cursive font. You will also see that the text of the Logo etc is in gold-colored type. Two of the boxes that holds bracelets in three of the photos provided by the seller, are similar boxes as the one Kay uses but with a couple of differences. First the logo is incomplete, with just the work "Kay" - the trademark "R" is missing as well as the word "Jewelers" on both boxes in question. The other issue is the print color, which is supposed to me a metallic gold, instead is flat black.

While not an overwhelming difference - it is enough to provide make me question the authentic the bracelets are. Again Arkeib1, than you very much!

There could be another Kay jewellers other than the one you are thinking of which would explain why they don't match, or else they could be fake boxes. If that is the case they might not even be 14K gold, its common for things to be labelled 14K gold when it fact it can be 14K gold over the top of a much cheaper metal. Unless you know what you are doing and can inspect the items in person I think the whole exercise is open to you losing money.....If I have saved you going down that path then my brutal honesty was worth the effort. If you purchase something like it - the items need to have clear and valid certification stating what they are from a reliable valuer or lab that has issued this information OR you need to be able to return the items for a full refund if they come back not as described by the seller.