Padparadscha Sapphire Engagement Ring

[FrekeChild]

Jeff Davies is actually a gemstone broker. He has cutters and is in Thailand, so he gets different gems all of the time. He has someone who makes settings for him, but he does not do the bench work himself, and from what I understand, there is a lot of trust involved because there are no CAD models or wax models.

For something like an engagement ring, I'd pick someone who produced some kind of model or drawing or something concrete instead.

My $.02.

 

[dzop]

As a fellow (male) geologist:

If you want something that is that color and is geologically sort of cool, why not an argyle brownish pink diamond? You'll know exactly where it came from; its a diamond, which is (traditionally) appropriate for an engagement ring - heck, you can even look up minerological research as to how it got it's color.

I have a lot of trouble buying sapphires, the more I know about the gem trade. A nasty industry from top to bottom. From a conscience point of view, I can't see how you'd do better than an Argyle.

Granted, you'll have to get a small stone, but it'll sparkle like crazy!

FWIW, I put a (very tiny) natural blue in my wedding band recently - you'll be able to get something much bigger b/c brownish pinks are far cheaper than Type IIb blues. I like knowing exactly where it came from - in my case the Cullinan mine (fka the Premier mine) in South Africa.

 

[OreoRosies86]

As a fellow (male) geologist:

If you want something that is that color and is geologically sort of cool, why not an argyle brownish pink diamond? You'll know exactly where it came from; its a diamond, which is (traditionally) appropriate for an engagement ring - heck, you can even look up minerological research as to how it got it's color.

I have a lot of trouble buying sapphires, the more I know about the gem trade. A nasty industry from top to bottom. From a conscience point of view, I can't see how you'd do better than an Argyle.

Granted, you'll have to get a small stone, but it'll sparkle like crazy!

FWIW, I put a (very tiny) natural blue in my wedding band recently - you'll be able to get something much bigger b/c brownish pinks are far cheaper than Type IIb blues. I like knowing exactly where it came from - in my case the Cullinan mine (fka the Premier mine) in South Africa.

The gem trade is like anything else. If you do your research you can find fair trade, ethically sourced stones. You can find vendors who work in antique stones, recycled gold and platinum, vendors who pay a fair price to miners and do not exploit children. Sure you might pay a premium and it will take longer but there are plenty of reputable gem dealers.

 

[dzop]

That is, if you trust every step in the chain to be honest about provenance.

With a premium attached to "ethically sourced" stones, there's a big incentive to lie at all stages in the chain. Unless you use your geology to constrain who could've mined the stone - e.g., Montana sapphires are likely to be no guilt attached - you're very unlikely to get much more than a (metaphorical) papal indulgence by buying a "fair trade" stone. It's just the nature of the economics of gem mining - only the desparately poor have an economic incentive to mine "artisanally", and colored stones rarely scale to big-company levels, unlike diamonds.

Even if your dealer is honest, and even if the guy he bought the stone from swore it was mined ethically . . . down chain, who knows? What are the odds that a gem sapphire didn't come from a fetid ditch in Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Burma, East Africa?

As a fellow (male) geologist:

If you want something that is that color and is geologically sort of cool, why not an argyle brownish pink diamond? You'll know exactly where it came from; its a diamond, which is (traditionally) appropriate for an engagement ring - heck, you can even look up minerological research as to how it got it's color.

I have a lot of trouble buying sapphires, the more I know about the gem trade. A nasty industry from top to bottom. From a conscience point of view, I can't see how you'd do better than an Argyle.

Granted, you'll have to get a small stone, but it'll sparkle like crazy!

FWIW, I put a (very tiny) natural blue in my wedding band recently - you'll be able to get something much bigger b/c brownish pinks are far cheaper than Type IIb blues. I like knowing exactly where it came from - in my case the Cullinan mine (fka the Premier mine) in South Africa.

The gem trade is like anything else. If you do your research you can find fair trade, ethically sourced stones. You can find vendors who work in antique stones, recycled gold and platinum, vendors who pay a fair price to miners and do not exploit children. Sure you might pay a premium and it will take longer but there are plenty of reputable gem dealers.

 

[pregcurious]

You can buy manmade diamonds, sapphires, etc. There is a lab grown diamond forum here.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I don't want to get into a debate and threadjack, but what-ifs apply to everything in life (unless you don't wear most clothes, use Apple products, wear shoes, wear platinum or gold...). I get it. Just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you should do nothing. I just wouldn't want to attach a negative sentiment to someone's desired engagement ring stone when there are lots of ways to source the most mind clean stone possible.

Or maybe I'm just not a fan of brown diamonds

 

[dzop]

I hear you - but I think its important to recognize that a "fair trade" premium is of debatable value unless you have provenance from all stages in the supply chain, something that is exceedingly rare in colored stones. If folks will lie (or be fooled!) about treatments, which have a substantive, tangible impact, no one is going to think twice about slapping on a fair trade assurance, as long as it enhances value. I think it's better for someone to understand that upfront, before they buy a stone, then to realize it down the road when the money is already spent.

I don't want to get into a debate and threadjack, but what-ifs apply to everything in life (unless you don't wear most clothes, use Apple products, wear shoes, wear platinum or gold...). I get it. Just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you should do nothing. I just wouldn't want to attach a negative sentiment to someone's desired engagement ring stone when there are lots of ways to source the most mind clean stone possible.

Or maybe I'm just not a fan of brown diamonds

 

[chrono]

My preference is to work with a bench that can handsketch, draw a CAD model or create a wax that I can see and approve before proceeding. This list is from the vetted vendors sticky thread:

Custom Setting Vendors
Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) - www.briangavindiamonds.com
Engagement Rings Direct (ERD) - www.engagementringsdirect.com
Victor Canera - www.victorcanera.com
Michael E - http://gemshoppe.com/
Green Lake Jewelry - www.greenlakejewelry.com
Steven Kirsch http://www.timelessluxury.net/
Quest Fine Jewelry http://questfinejewelers.com/
Hunt Country Jewelers http://huntcountry.com/
Peter Lees Jewelry http://peterlees.com/
http://www.beatrizfortes.com/
www.jewelsbyericagrace.com
Pearlman's www.pearlmansjewelers.com

 

[Niel]

My preference is to work with a bench that can handsketch, draw a CAD model or create a wax that I can see and approve before proceeding. This list is from the vetted vendors sticky thread:

Custom Setting Vendors
Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) - www.briangavindiamonds.com
Engagement Rings Direct (ERD) - www.engagementringsdirect.com
Victor Canera - www.victorcanera.com
Michael E - http://gemshoppe.com/
Green Lake Jewelry - www.greenlakejewelry.com
Steven Kirsch http://www.timelessluxury.net/
Quest Fine Jewelry http://questfinejewelers.com/
Hunt Country Jewelers http://huntcountry.com/
Peter Lees Jewelry http://peterlees.com/
http://www.beatrizfortes.com/
www.jewelsbyericagrace.com
Pearlman's www.pearlmansjewelers.com

I feel weird updating the pinned vendor thread as somewhat of an outsider, but that's not SKs website anymore.

 

[chrono]

Niel,
Feel free to make corrections as it is beneficial to everyone to have working links. PS is our playground which we all have a responsibility for its upkeep / maintenance. No one is an outsider here, especially those who have signed up and participate in the forums, regardless of post count.

 

[MollyMalone]

If you are in/near Houston, nrs, it would be very easy for you to visit Brian Gavin Diamonds in person (just call first for an appointment).

 

[Starzin]

This still seems to be available...
http://www.thegemtrader.com/Apr12PadparadschaPage.htm



Or perhaps something here appeals http://www.mineralminers.com/html/padgems.stm

 

[minousbijoux]

My preference is to work with a bench that can handsketch, draw a CAD model or create a wax that I can see and approve before proceeding. This list is from the vetted vendors sticky thread:

Custom Setting Vendors
Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) - www.briangavindiamonds.com
Engagement Rings Direct (ERD) - www.engagementringsdirect.com
Victor Canera - www.victorcanera.com
Michael E - http://gemshoppe.com/
Green Lake Jewelry - www.greenlakejewelry.com
Steven Kirsch http://www.timelessluxury.net/
Quest Fine Jewelry http://questfinejewelers.com/
Hunt Country Jewelers http://huntcountry.com/
Peter Lees Jewelry http://peterlees.com/
http://www.beatrizfortes.com/
www.jewelsbyericagrace.com
Pearlman's www.pearlmansjewelers.com

I feel weird updating the pinned vendor thread as somewhat of an outsider, but that's not SKs website anymore.

Niel: before you go and make any changes, can I ask what is wrong with the url? It seems to be working and it takes you to a jewelry website where SK's work is discussed - so given that, are you sure its the wrong site?

 

[OreoRosies86]

Nope, that one is sold. It sat on TGT for a long time though. It's pretty, but I would like it with more pink.

 

[Niel]

My preference is to work with a bench that can handsketch, draw a CAD model or create a wax that I can see and approve before proceeding. This list is from the vetted vendors sticky thread:

Custom Setting Vendors
Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) - www.briangavindiamonds.com
Engagement Rings Direct (ERD) - www.engagementringsdirect.com
Victor Canera - www.victorcanera.com
Michael E - http://gemshoppe.com/
Green Lake Jewelry - www.greenlakejewelry.com
Steven Kirsch http://www.timelessluxury.net/
Quest Fine Jewelry http://questfinejewelers.com/
Hunt Country Jewelers http://huntcountry.com/
Peter Lees Jewelry http://peterlees.com/
http://www.beatrizfortes.com/
www.jewelsbyericagrace.com
Pearlman's www.pearlmansjewelers.com

I feel weird updating the pinned vendor thread as somewhat of an outsider, but that's not SKs website anymore.

Niel: before you go and make any changes, can I ask what is wrong with the url? It seems to be working and it takes you to a jewelry website where SK's work is discussed - so given that, are you sure its the wrong site?

If you look at the thread on page 4 it appears he left a note saying his website has changed as of last year

Plus his is the one you get if you Google

http://www.stevenkirsch.com/

 

[minousbijoux]

My preference is to work with a bench that can handsketch, draw a CAD model or create a wax that I can see and approve before proceeding. This list is from the vetted vendors sticky thread:

Custom Setting Vendors
Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) - www.briangavindiamonds.com
Engagement Rings Direct (ERD) - www.engagementringsdirect.com
Victor Canera - www.victorcanera.com
Michael E - http://gemshoppe.com/
Green Lake Jewelry - www.greenlakejewelry.com
Steven Kirsch http://www.timelessluxury.net/
Quest Fine Jewelry http://questfinejewelers.com/
Hunt Country Jewelers http://huntcountry.com/
Peter Lees Jewelry http://peterlees.com/
http://www.beatrizfortes.com/
www.jewelsbyericagrace.com
Pearlman's www.pearlmansjewelers.com

I feel weird updating the pinned vendor thread as somewhat of an outsider, but that's not SKs website anymore.

Niel: before you go and make any changes, can I ask what is wrong with the url? It seems to be working and it takes you to a jewelry website where SK's work is discussed - so given that, are you sure its the wrong site?

If you look at the thread on page 4 it appears he left a note saying his website has changed as of last year

Plus his is the one you get if you Google

http://www.stevenkirsch.com/

Yeah, I saw when he added that to the thread, but didn't quite know what to do with it when I looked and saw that the website still seemed relevant. But I freely admit to knowing nothing about jewelry designers, so if you think you know what to do, go ahead and make the change; I was just wanting to understand it since it confused me.

 

[Starzin]

Nope, that one is sold. It sat on TGT for a long time though. It's pretty, but I would like it with more pink.

Hmmm... he usually marks the sold if it is. I think this is one that needs to be seen in hand if in fact it is available and appeals to nrs. The overriding thing for me would be the different colour mix which I find impossible to gauge in a photo of a pad and that one only sees in hand.

This is an interesting essay on pads anyway so I'll pop it in for posterity
http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/padparadscha-sapphire.htm

 

[nrs061000]

I do believe I have found two settings of my dreams...Which I'm sure they come with a pretty hefty price tag.

http://www.stevenkirsch.com/engagement/three-stone/r0326.html

Would really like this one as is...not quite sure on its specs. I'm in between a blue sapphire and a pad for a stone.

http://www.stevenkirsch.com/engagement/three-stone/r0314.html

I absolutely love the setting of this. I think this setting could hold a blue or a pad very well.

Unfortunately, I think these will be out of my price range and I should have never visited this website lol


Thank you all for all of your input and help. I will keep researching and if I have more questions or need opinions I will re-post. Whenever I do decide on something I will try to get pics.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Nope, that one is sold. It sat on TGT for a long time though. It's pretty, but I would like it with more pink.

Hmmm... he usually marks the sold if it is. I think this is one that needs to be seen in hand if in fact it is available and appeals to nrs. The overriding thing for me would be the different colour mix which I find impossible to gauge in a photo of a pad and that one only sees in hand.

This is an interesting essay on pads anyway so I'll pop it in for posterity
http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/padparadscha-sapphire.htm

It is marked as sold, on the main page

 

[Starzin]

Gah! Didn't look further than my nose did I? Went straight to that page - thanks Elliot

 

[chrono]

I am quite sure the 2 SK settings you like are in the $5K range for the setting alone. It doesn't mean you cannot be inspired by them and simplify it and have it CAD/cast to bring the cost down.

 

[nrs061000]

Thank you Chrono...I was thinking along the same. Because the one setting I love is almost perfect. I just don't like the yellow gold part, maybe a rose gold instead. Soooo many rings out there I was starting to become very over whelmed. I'm sure I can take this one as an example and go from there. I also don't need to have the center be a diamond and not so big in size (center nor sides). The R0314 has character but not over the top. I would definitely want it toned down a bit, but not too much.

 

[T L]

As a fellow (male) geologist:

If you want something that is that color and is geologically sort of cool, why not an argyle brownish pink diamond?

There are orangy pink spinels too.

 

[T L]

That is, if you trust every step in the chain to be honest about provenance.

With a premium attached to "ethically sourced" stones, there's a big incentive to lie at all stages in the chain. Unless you use your geology to constrain who could've mined the stone - e.g., Montana sapphires are likely to be no guilt attached - you're very unlikely to get much more than a (metaphorical) papal indulgence by buying a "fair trade" stone. It's just the nature of the economics of gem mining - only the desparately poor have an economic incentive to mine "artisanally", and colored stones rarely scale to big-company levels, unlike diamonds.

Even if your dealer is honest, and even if the guy he bought the stone from swore it was mined ethically . . . down chain, who knows? What are the odds that a gem sapphire didn't come from a fetid ditch in Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Burma, East Africa?

I agree, you can never be 100% certain your colored stone is ethically sourced unless you dug it up yourself.

 

[Niel]

As a fellow (male) geologist:

If you want something that is that color and is geologically sort of cool, why not an argyle brownish pink diamond?

There are orangy pink spinels too.

Probably too much but here's an example I saw of an orangy pink spinel.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/107722804/natural-pink-spinel-525-carat-cushion

 

[T L]

At 4+ carats, spinels tend to go up a lot in price. A two to three carat orangy pink spinel should be much more affordable, especially one more on the peachy side.

You can search for them online by googling "padparadscha spinel" or "peachy spinel" or "orangy pink spinel" or "pinkish orange spinel."

Here's a nice one, and precision cut too.

http://www.etsy.com/listing/167281879/precision-cut-ceylon-peachy-pink-spinel?ref=market

 

[minousbijoux]

I agree that if you keep the carat weight to under 3 cts, you can find reasonably priced orangey pink spinels. I would definitely look more into the spinels, because there is still such a price differential between padparadscha sapphires and padparadscha spinels.

 

[minousbijoux]

I just changed the pinned vendor thread to correct to Steven Kirsch's website.

 

[chrono]

I agree that if you keep the carat weight to under 3 cts, you can find reasonably priced orangey pink spinels. I would definitely look more into the spinels, because there is still such a price differential between padparadscha sapphires and padparadscha spinels.

Not to mention the treatment factor.

And Minou,
Thanks for updating the link.

 

[minousbijoux]

I agree that if you keep the carat weight to under 3 cts, you can find reasonably priced orangey pink spinels. I would definitely look more into the spinels, because there is still such a price differential between padparadscha sapphires and padparadscha spinels.

Not to mention the treatment factor.

And Minou,
Thanks for updating the link.

My pleasure! Actually, truth be told, I - and a few others - feel a bit proprietary about that pinned thread and I wanted to make sure everything that needed to be copied was done correctly and added back in, including the BIG WARNING not to leave random comments on the thread!

Sorry, nrs, threadjack over!