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Oval help!

SandyK

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
328
Hi! I am looking to upgrade my engagement ring, and my budget for the stone is about $23K. I know that I want an oval solitaire, and like everyone I am trying to figure out how to find the biggest, whitest, and most sparkly diamond in my price range. I definitely want the diamond to be eye-clean and I think I'm most comfortable in the D-F color range. I found a jeweler who makes a setting that I love, but it seems like I might be able to get more for my money if I buy the diamond separately?

Given the above, can anyone weigh in on the diamond below?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut-loose-diamond-3647827.htm

Thank you!
 

aftereffects15

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
95
Hello fellow oval seeker!

I'm far from an expert but that one seems to have a pretty noticeable bow tie. jamesallen.com and enchanteddiamonds.com would be a great place to start since you can see the video (and sometimes ASET) for the diamonds, hard to buy one otherwise.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/O201-S2B52Q this one is stunning imo and fits with your budget (if you're willing to go to G color)
 

SandyK

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
328
Thanks for the input! I've looked on James Allen before, but hadn't heard of Enchanted Diamonds - and now I'm thinking I need to re-think my stone budget, ahhh: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/O233-DC5SJU

I like how ED has the cut score - do you happen to know if there is some generally accepted Pricescope range on the cut score? I definitely don't want to sacrifice any fire/sparkle.

Also - I just saw your thread about the oval search - good luck!! I'm super excited to see the final product on your future ring, that is going to be STUNNING.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,663
SandyK|1460249488|4017439 said:
Thanks for the input! I've looked on James Allen before, but hadn't heard of Enchanted Diamonds - and now I'm thinking I need to re-think my stone budget, ahhh: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/O233-DC5SJU

I like how ED has the cut score - do you happen to know if there is some generally accepted Pricescope range on the cut score? I definitely don't want to sacrifice any fire/sparkle.

Also - I just saw your thread about the oval search - good luck!! I'm super excited to see the final product on your future ring, that is going to be STUNNING.
The consensus on Pricescope is the cut scores are pretty useless with respect to fancy cut stones. Use them with a major grain of salt.
I don't use them at all. I have looked at a lot of their stones on line (particularly ones with aset images) and there seems to be very little reasoning why some score high and some score low. There is just too much variance in cuts and faceting patterns to be able to score then without someone viewing them in person. With respect to round brilliants the cut scores work much better.
 

leukolenos

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
822
Welcome to the oval hunting club! Seems like we're looking for pretty similar things.

Yeah... I agree with the above ^^ on the cut score. Not super helpful with the ovals and I think can sometimes be distracting? I've totally glossed over a few which turned out to actually be quite good because of how prominently they display that silly number! I wish you could turn that feature off.

Good luck on your search! I'm sure you'll find something great!
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
Hi SandyK - it really is about your personal preference on what you find aesthetically pleasing - - for what it's worth, here are a few tips that may help in your search (note - this is based on my market/customer preference so keep in mind what you like may not be the same):
  • Ratio - - 1.3-1.4:1 - - can have 1.5:1 if you like slightly longer
    Approx 60% depth
    Look for a nice table/depth combination
    Minimal bowties
    Tend to show a bit more colour than rounds – for stock I tend to stick with G+ (again, based on Australian market in general - many PS members seem to not mind a bit lower H-J colour)
    Look for nice colour distribution across the belly - and bright distribution of light from top to bottom – good distribution of dark & light from bow tie - - look out for dark/dull/dead patches at the ends
    Look at internal reflections – want it to throw off some nice transparency and fire
    Ovals aren't known for big flashes – will emphasise smaller points of light – beautiful display of tiny flashes of scintillation.
    Can have different number of pavilion facets – produce slightly different looks - i.e. ‘4 Main’ or ‘8 Main’
Hope this helps
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
21,663
Hi Sandy,
I wanted to post some "nice" stones so you know what to look for. Nice stones will have nice faceting patterns that return light
well, minimal bow-tie and nice shape. ADN in the above post has given some good points as to what to look for.
Sometimes it's hard to picture what we are trying to say so I'm posting these stones so you can see for yourself (picture worth 1000
words right?) Ignore the color, clarity, and size on these stones. Just look at the faceting pattern and the light return. These
were all selected from the images/videos. I did not look at the reports.

Faceting pattern under table very bright, main facets under table almost run all the way to North/South (N/S)ends , minimal leakage, no bow-tie.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.30-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-760437
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.32-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-807144
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.80-carat-f-color-si1-clarity-sku-525369
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.04-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-588356

These have nice centers (not as nice as above) and have a little more leakage but they are still some of the better ovals...
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.02-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-1028743
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.72-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-877709

I would also want to see aset images of all the above before purchasing. Unfortunately aset images of ovals can be very ugly.

Personal preference also plays a part in the faceting pattern. You may prefer one over the other. You can look at the GIA
reports to see the different faceting patterns (4 main, 8 main, etc).

Hope this helps some...
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,173
My take on ovals is a bit different- as I get to see a lot of different facet designs in both colorless, and fancy colored ovals.
Bow Tie is not necessarily a negative aspect in a colorless oval.
Most people would not like a stone that has a dull dark band across the middle- but what if there are large facets at the middle of the diamond that flash on and off bright? That can be very appealing.
When shopping, you'll notice that you will see both Oval Brilliant, and Oval Modified Brilliant.
The Oval brilliant is the type that will have larger facets ( in a good case bright and larger on/off flashing facets) and smaller reflections coming from the tips.
In best cases, the small flashing sort of sparkle at the tips blends with the larger flashes in the mid section.

Oval Modified Brilliant will allow the cutter to add extra facets on the bottom of the diamond and can totally avoid the bow tie effect- both the positive and the less than positive ones.
OMB's can have a nice even crushed ice sparkle- which is why it's common in Fancy Colored Ovals.

About table and depth....I look at many other aspects first, and never eliminate stones based only on table depth combos.
IMO you'll be better served picking by the type of sparkle and shape a stone has than trying to shop by numbers
 

SandyK

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
328
Thank you!! In terms of finding the diamond with the greatest fire/sparkle, should I be worried about the clarity grade? I think I would rather pay more for a bigger/whiter diamond, but am wondering if I risk sacrificing sparkle in the SI1 and SI2 range. I know that I want an "eyeclean" stone, understanding that there are variations in how that term is defined...

As a side note, I just spent way too much time browsing Diamonds by Lauren - simply stunning work! Especially the halo/pave work with the pink diamond rings.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,173
Aw shucks, I'm blushing Sandy. Thank you so much for the kind words.

Clarity: This is a widely misunderstood characteristic.
There's a fairly high percentage of SI2 graded diamonds where it easy to see the imperfections with your naked eye.
In most cases, that's the main problem- as opposed to an overall dull stone lacking sparkle.
In some cases, the imperfection might be possible ( as opposed to easy) to see.
Then at the other end of the spectrum, a small percentage of SI2 clarity diamonds are totally eye clean.
It is not all that easy to find the eye clean SI2's - for this reason many people on the internet advise is to stay away.
If you are working with a vendor who is looking at the diamonds in person, they should be able to answer questions.

Personally, I love SI2 diamonds - let me clarify, my wife does:) She prefers size for the money.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
21,663
SandyK|1461093684|4021314 said:
How does this one look in terms of cut/sparkle?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.39-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-597456

We decided to bump the stone budget a little bit so we can go with an E color and 2.3+ carats, but I'm hoping to find one in the SI1 - SI2 range to save on the overall price.
So you like the 4 main? I think you need an aset on that one. I'm not seeing the type of flashes I like to see but it could be the
photog setup. I'm getting a few good hits of light on the outside but not too much on the inside. Definitely not getting the
mirror effect.
What do you think about this one?
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.52-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-353780
There is also this one but I like the above one better.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.40-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-465014

This is a 4 main, smaller than you're looking for but you can see more of the hall of mirror effect that looks missing in that
stone you posted.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.05-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-727118
 

SandyK

Shiny_Rock
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328
What is 4 main!

I see what you mean about the brighter flashes in the ones you posted v. my original one.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
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SandyK|1461104259|4021394 said:
What is 4 main!

I see what you mean about the brighter flashes in the ones you posted v. my original one.
Look at the the oval diagrams on the GIA certs. You can see on the pavilion view that there are 4 main facets versus the usual
8 main that look more like a round brilliant type cut. With 8 mains they can have arrows straight through the center or they
can be offset with the arrows going at an angle from the center. The stones that I like and mostly post are 8 mains but it
is a matter of personal preference. You just have to figure out which one you like the best.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Perfomance and faceting. Lab reports are use less. We need pictures, preferrably a good up close video (like the ones at JA) and an ASET image.
 

SandyK

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
328
tyty333|1461105198|4021397 said:
SandyK|1461104259|4021394 said:
What is 4 main!

I see what you mean about the brighter flashes in the ones you posted v. my original one.
Look at the the oval diagrams on the GIA certs. You can see on the pavilion view that there are 4 main facets versus the usual
8 main that look more like a round brilliant type cut. With 8 mains they can have arrows straight through the center or they
can be offset with the arrows going at an angle from the center. The stones that I like and mostly post are 8 mains but it
is a matter of personal preference. You just have to figure out which one you like the best.
Ahh - thanks very much. I've looked at different ovals in a couple stores but never discussed the cut pattern, I think I just need to try and see more in person so I can compare. I live in Texas, so I'm thinking I might try to set up an appointment with Whiteflash. I don't know if I would feel comfortable making the decision based on a video alone.
 

leukolenos

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
822
Ahh - thanks very much. I've looked at different ovals in a couple stores but never discussed the cut pattern, I think I just need to try and see more in person so I can compare. I live in Texas, so I'm thinking I might try to set up an appointment with Whiteflash. I don't know if I would feel comfortable making the decision based on a video alone.[/quote]


I know what you mean- it's can be so tedious shopping online. I need to go too to shop for my upgrade and am planning a trip down to Houston (we live in DFW) to see more in person. Keep us posted!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the proportions and the faceting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.
With ovals all that matters is the faceting and the performance of the stone. By performance we mean: how well it reflects light because this determines how bright the stone is, how much it sparkles, and how lively it is. And how big it looks. A well performing diamond will always look larger than a diamond with compromised performance, even if the compromised stone has actually larger dimensions. With ovals what you need to determine this is images of the stone. Preferrably a video And finally an ASET scope image. That is what the stone I selected for you offers.

So what is an ASET scope image and why is it important? http://highperformancediamonds.com/education/performance-tutorial/

Basically an ASET tells you how well the diamond you are evaluating reflects light and where the light is coming from. This matters. .


So that's what you need to focus on.
 

SandyK

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
328
Gypsy|1461651033|4023647 said:
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the proportions and the faceting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.
With ovals all that matters is the faceting and the performance of the stone. By performance we mean: how well it reflects light because this determines how bright the stone is, how much it sparkles, and how lively it is. And how big it looks. A well performing diamond will always look larger than a diamond with compromised performance, even if the compromised stone has actually larger dimensions. With ovals what you need to determine this is images of the stone. Preferrably a video And finally an ASET scope image. That is what the stone I selected for you offers.

So what is an ASET scope image and why is it important? http://highperformancediamonds.com/education/performance-tutorial/

Basically an ASET tells you how well the diamond you are evaluating reflects light and where the light is coming from. This matters. .


So that's what you need to focus on.
Thank you very much! One quick question - you referenced a stone you selected, I think I might have missed a link to the stone?
 

SandyK

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
328
cinnamonstick|1461671893|4023682 said:
Good luck! ❤ovals!!
Thank you! I wish I could fast forward to the part where I can post a hand shot haha :D
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Sorry. There were two oval threads I was cross posting in.

I can take a look for you if want.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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It's not to my personal taste as it is too much like a marquise to me. And has a bowtie. But if you like it, it might be worth seeing it in person.
 

WillyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,270
OP
Oval is a very interesting shape.
Have you considered a Yellow diamond? I have seen some intense yellows at Tiffany's (yes, expensive), they are amazing. Don't know if it fits your liking and budget.
 
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