Opinions on this Winza Sapphire?

[Crystal Nerd]

Hi PriceScope Colored Gem Enthusiasts,

This is my first post on PriceScope! I am a long-time crystal nerd who has collected minerals since childhood and only recently started collecting gems a year ago. I love unusual colored gems like Winza bi-color sapphires.

I found this 0.53 ct heated Winza sapphire on the Natural Sapphire Company's website, but I am hesitant to purchase from this company due to their poor reputation and lackluster experience with them when I had to return a pink star sapphire to them which looked a lot nicer on their website.

I would also prefer to find a 1 carat Winza sapphire that I could mount in a ring, but I know these are rare gems only found in the Winza region of Tanzania which might not be easy to source.

What do you think? Does anyone have any leads on quality Winza sapphires with nice saturation and good clarity? Most of the other Winza gems I have seen for sale online look kind of muddy vs. defined color zoning you would hope to find in a nice parti-sapphire. I appreciate your opinions and thoughts!

 

[Avondale]

My main problem with this stone is it's ridiculously overpriced, and it doesn't even have the untreated status to back its price tag with.

You know what you're looking for in terms of colour, and a ~6x4mm stone is workable with the right setting.

But are you really in that much of a hurry? Only then would I advise you to consider buying it.

If you aren't rushing to make a purchase, it would be better to give it time and keep your eyes open. A nice Winza sapphire is bound to pop up somewhere at some point. Plus there are vendors you can ask to source the stone for you - that way the higher price tag will at least be justified (and even then I don't think it will reach 1300 per ct for a half carat heated stone).

If you want to have a custom ring made with it, I'd suggest taking a look at Cecile Raley Designs. Yvonne has a very discerning eye and her photos usually don't oversell. Also has a unique and recognisable style. If you like her work, I have no doubt she'll be more than capable to source a stone for you.

 

[Crystal Nerd]

My main problem with this stone is it's ridiculously overpriced, and it doesn't even have the untreated status to back its price tag with.

You know what you're looking for in terms of colour, and a ~6x4mm stone is workable with the right setting.

But are you really in that much of a hurry? Only then would I advise you to consider buying it.

If you aren't rushing to make a purchase, it would be better to give it time and keep your eyes open. A nice Winza sapphire is bound to pop up somewhere at some point. Plus there are vendors you can ask to source the stone for you - that way the higher price tag will at least be justified (and even then I don't think it will reach 1300 per ct for a half carat heated stone).

If you want to have a custom ring made with it, I'd suggest taking a look at Cecile Raley Designs. Yvonne has a very discerning eye and her photos usually don't oversell. Also has a unique and recognisable style. If you like her work, I have no doubt she'll be more than capable to source a stone for you.

Agreed! The NSC is asking for a ridiculous price for a gem of this size that is heat treated. I'm not in a hurry to purchase a Winza sapphire since I would rather wait to find the right one. Like you said, I would rather ask a different vendor to source a Winza sapphire for me. Thanks also for the Cecile Raley Designs recommendation; I've been eyeing her Etsy store for awhile but haven't purchased from her yet.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I just feel like stone is rather dark and muddy. Since it's so small, do you think you'd be able to appreciate the zoning at eye level? That would be my concern more than the price.

 

[Crystal Nerd]

I just feel like stone is rather dark and muddy. Since it's so small, do you think you'd be able to appreciate the zoning at eye level? That would be my concern more than the price.

Thanks for the warm welcome! Yes, one of my chief concerns if that the small size would make it difficult for me to see the zoning at eye level.

I think a perfect Winza sapphire would look exactly like this 1.39 ct unheated Winza sapphire from Finewater Gems. I think this exact sapphire was purchased by another Pricescoper since I thought I saw it posted in another PS thread. Isn't she a beauty?

 

[Autumn in New England]

That little beauty is @CBianco's! And yes, it is perfection!!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Hi PriceScope Colored Gem Enthusiasts,

This is my first post on PriceScope! I am a long-time crystal nerd who has collected minerals since childhood and only recently started collecting gems a year ago. I love unusual colored gems like Winza bi-color sapphires.

I found this 0.53 ct heated Winza sapphire on the Natural Sapphire Company's website, but I am hesitant to purchase from this company due to their poor reputation and lackluster experience with them when I had to return a pink star sapphire to them which looked a lot nicer on their website.

I would also prefer to find a 1 carat Winza sapphire that I could mount in a ring, but I know these are rare gems only found in the Winza region of Tanzania which might not be easy to source.

What do you think? Does anyone have any leads on quality Winza sapphires with nice saturation and good clarity? Most of the other Winza gems I have seen for sale online look kind of muddy vs. defined color zoning you would hope to find in a nice parti-sapphire. I appreciate your opinions and thoughts!

i am very intrigued by the colours
i really think you have answered your own question
i will enjoy following along in your journey to find a bigger stone from a more trustworthy supplier
welcome to PriceScope

 

[toomuchB]

Agreed its overpriced.

It is 1300/ct at 0.53ct

this finer example was 875/ct at 1.66ct

1.66 ct. Tanzanian Ruby-Sapphire - The Gem Trader Rare Gems — The Gem Trader

www.thegemtrader.com

 

[VividRed]

Agreed its overpriced.

It is 1300/ct at 0.53ct

this finer example was 875/ct at 1.66ct

1.66 ct. Tanzanian Ruby-Sapphire - The Gem Trader Rare Gems — The Gem Trader

www.thegemtrader.com

Better in every way, agree

 

[Avondale]

That little beauty is @CBianco's! And yes, it is perfection!!

Not anymore, she sold it to @Mrsz1ppy a while ago.

Agreed its overpriced.

It is 1300/ct at 0.53ct

this finer example was 875/ct at 1.66ct

1.66 ct. Tanzanian Ruby-Sapphire - The Gem Trader Rare Gems — The Gem Trader

www.thegemtrader.com

OP, if it’s in budget, I’d just buy this one and call it a day.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Agreed its overpriced.

It is 1300/ct at 0.53ct

this finer example was 875/ct at 1.66ct

1.66 ct. Tanzanian Ruby-Sapphire - The Gem Trader Rare Gems — The Gem Trader

www.thegemtrader.com

Oh this is so pretty and obviously two toned. The original one looks very muddy.

 

[toomuchB]

OP, if it’s in budget, I’d just buy this one and call it a day.

I'm quite certain that it is sold. Some of TGT's sold stuff is just still findable online. OP can certainly contact TGT and see if he has anything else in stock.
I will add I asked him to keep an eye out for something like this last Tucson (I had a few extra preferences though, like size and tone preferences) and he said there was very little quality material, and not something like I was asking for.

 

[Avondale]

I'm quite certain that it is sold.

Oh that would be a shame! It's a bit misleading to be honest, price is listed, it isn't marked as sold or out of stock anywhere. Too bad, would've been a great option.

In any case, I still stand by my words, another nice one is bound to pop up eventually.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Not anymore, she sold it to @Mrsz1ppy a while ago.

Congrats to @Mrsz1ppy on an awesome acquisition! Sorry I missed it myself!!

 

[toomuchB]

Oh that would be a shame! It's a bit misleading to be honest, price is listed, it isn't marked as sold or out of stock anywhere. Too bad, would've been a great option.

In any case, I still stand by my words, another nice one is bound to pop up eventually.

I find it helpful to see what he has had in the past but yes ideally sold items should be marked as sold. I think anything not literally listed and findable on his site is sold.

For the sold stuff I have to search for specifically eg here I searched 'thegemtrader winza sapphire' and went to images.

I use it as another resource and it often means he has familiarity with a certain material including some really rare stuff.

 

[Crystal Nerd]

i am very intrigued by the colours
i really think you have answered your own question
i will enjoy following along in your journey to find a bigger stone from a more trustworthy supplier
welcome to PriceScope

Thanks for the warm welcome and encouragement! If I somehow find the Winza sapphire of my dreams, I will be sure to share pictures to this thread.

 

[Crystal Nerd]

Agreed its overpriced.

It is 1300/ct at 0.53ct

this finer example was 875/ct at 1.66ct

1.66 ct. Tanzanian Ruby-Sapphire - The Gem Trader Rare Gems — The Gem Trader

www.thegemtrader.com

Yes, the NSC sapphires tend to be overpriced. Thanks for providing this amazing example of the Winza sapphire from the Gem Trader; if it was still available, I would buy it!

@toomuchB, have you purchased any gems from the Gem Trader before? I like that this vendor is a gemologist with unusual gems for wholesale prices, but I have not purchased from this company before.

 

[toomuchB]

Yes, the NSC sapphires tend to be overpriced. Thanks for providing this amazing example of the Winza sapphire from the Gem Trader; if it was still available, I would buy it!

@toomuchB, have you purchased any gems from the Gem Trader before? I like that this vendor is a gemologist with unusual gems for wholesale prices, but I have not purchased from this company before.

I've purchased from Brad several times as have many here (google 'thegemtrader pricescope' for some other's experiences). Sometimes he takes a bit of time to respond, but he responds eventually. Honest communication, 7 day returns policy, large unlisted inventory, accurate photos and descriptions. Here's an example of his photo vs my video.

https://imgur.com/a/aWQdTgZ

I'm not sure I'd call his prices wholesale, but his pricing is generally very fair. I've noticed a few materials sometimes come off overpriced like tanzanite/zoisite - but that's when I'm comparing to non-western dealers which may be unfair.

Edit - I haven't bought from this Aussie seller before but he also sells some Winza sapphires and they look precision cut. Included material though. Still felt like sharing at least as a price point reference.

https://www.thestonealchemist.com.au/search?q=winza&f_collectionId=655b0bb72ce3972fb314117d

 

[Begonia]

Does anyone have a pic of of Mrsz1ppy's sapphire?? Not a glamour shot?

 

[toomuchB]

Does anyone have a pic of of Mrsz1ppy's sapphire?? Not a glamour shot?

Here

Thread '"Galaxy" Sapphire From Finewater'

Feb 18, 2022

Just arrived today, a little "galaxy" winza sapphire with interesting color zoning. Such a unique and mysterious little guy!

Dimensions are 1.34ct and 6.8×6.8×4.3


Gary's Photos:


My buddy approves:

• CBianco
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Colored Gemstones

• 
• 

 

[Autumn in New England]

Does anyone have a pic of of Mrsz1ppy's sapphire?? Not a glamour shot?

And here are the photos of it set! You'll have to scroll through the thread.

Thread 'Galaxy Sapphire'

Jul 10, 2023

I just happened to check LoupeTroop the other day when @CBianco posted her Galaxy sapphire for sale. I feel so lucky, as I know there are so many fans of that stone. I got it!

Now the challenge is the setting. I had a fantastic idea of a swirling pink sapphire spiral coming out from the pink middle, like the Milky Way, but I haven’t the faintest idea how to execute that. So I found a pre-loved ring today that will be a good temporary setting that will be very wearable. Fingers crossed the rubys work with the pink of the center stone.

• Mrsz1ppy
• Replies: 14
• Forum: Colored Gemstones

• 
• 

 

[toomuchB]

And here are the photos of it set! You'll have to scroll through the thread.

Thread 'Galaxy Sapphire'

Jul 10, 2023

I just happened to check LoupeTroop the other day when @CBianco posted her Galaxy sapphire for sale. I feel so lucky, as I know there are so many fans of that stone. I got it!

Now the challenge is the setting. I had a fantastic idea of a swirling pink sapphire spiral coming out from the pink middle, like the Milky Way, but I haven’t the faintest idea how to execute that. So I found a pre-loved ring today that will be a good temporary setting that will be very wearable. Fingers crossed the rubys work with the pink of the center stone.

• Mrsz1ppy
• Replies: 14
• Forum: Colored Gemstones

• 
• 

I missed this thread, thanks for posting

 

[Crystal Nerd]

I'm quite certain that it is sold. Some of TGT's sold stuff is just still findable online. OP can certainly contact TGT and see if he has anything else in stock.
I will add I asked him to keep an eye out for something like this last Tucson (I had a few extra preferences though, like size and tone preferences) and he said there was very little quality material, and not something like I was asking for.

I've purchased from Brad several times as have many here (google 'thegemtrader pricescope' for some other's experiences). Sometimes he takes a bit of time to respond, but he responds eventually. Honest communication, 7 day returns policy, large unlisted inventory, accurate photos and descriptions. Here's an example of his photo vs my video.

https://imgur.com/a/aWQdTgZ

I'm not sure I'd call his prices wholesale, but his pricing is generally very fair. I've noticed a few materials sometimes come off overpriced like tanzanite/zoisite - but that's when I'm comparing to non-western dealers which may be unfair.

Edit - I haven't bought from this Aussie seller before but he also sells some Winza sapphires and they look precision cut. Included material though. Still felt like sharing at least as a price point reference.

https://www.thestonealchemist.com.au/search?q=winza&f_collectionId=655b0bb72ce3972fb314117d

Thank you! This is all very helpful information. I will be sure to check out The Gem Trader in the future. Thanks also for the link to the Winza sapphires from the Aussie seller for the price point reference.

 

[toomuchB]

Thank you! This is all very helpful information. I will be sure to check out The Gem Trader in the future. Thanks also for the link to the Winza sapphires from the Aussie seller for the price point reference.

Happy to help! Since I've been interested in this material I keep tabs on which sellers have offered this. I remembered two more.

KosnarGemCo on etsy recently had one. Not sure if the fantasy cut is your thing.

KosnarGemCo - Etsy

Shop Custom Gemstone and Jewelry Creations by KosnarGemCo located in Arvada, Colorado. Top shop for gifts. Buyers bought gifts from this shop and gave them 5-star reviews!

www.etsy.com

it was listed so:
Gem: Sapphire / Ruby
Weight: 0.86 cts.
Size: 8.41 x 5.70 x 1.90 mm.
Color: Blue and Red/Pink
Clarity: SI
Cut: Fantasy Freeform
Locality: Winza, Tanzania
Treatment: None
Artist: @brettkosnar

And another Aussie seller:

Gemstones

I am a sole owner and designer ready to share my expertise about the beautiful minerals our planet has provided us. Browse the store!

reneetania.com.au

And for fun, some published examples from a GIA paper. How cool is that tri-color?

https://www.gia.edu/doc/Winter-2008-Gems-Gemology-Rubies-Sapphire-Winza-Tanzania.pdf

 

[Crystal Nerd]

Happy to help! Since I've been interested in this material I keep tabs on which sellers have offered this. I remembered two more.

KosnarGemCo on etsy recently had one. Not sure if the fantasy cut is your thing.

KosnarGemCo - Etsy

Shop Custom Gemstone and Jewelry Creations by KosnarGemCo located in Arvada, Colorado. Top shop for gifts. Buyers bought gifts from this shop and gave them 5-star reviews!

www.etsy.com

it was listed so:
Gem: Sapphire / Ruby
Weight: 0.86 cts.
Size: 8.41 x 5.70 x 1.90 mm.
Color: Blue and Red/Pink
Clarity: SI
Cut: Fantasy Freeform
Locality: Winza, Tanzania
Treatment: None
Artist: @brettkosnar

And another Aussie seller:

Gemstones

I am a sole owner and designer ready to share my expertise about the beautiful minerals our planet has provided us. Browse the store!

reneetania.com.au

And for fun, some published examples from a GIA paper. How cool is that tri-color?

https://www.gia.edu/doc/Winter-2008-Gems-Gemology-Rubies-Sapphire-Winza-Tanzania.pdf

Wow, @toomuchB! You are an incredible resource for Winza sapphires. This is all very helpful; especially the GIA paper on Winza sapphires. Thank you for being so generous in sharing all these links to other vendors selling Winza sapphires. I'm so happy I can geek out about this with you and others in this thread!

Also, that tri-color Winza in the GIA paper pic is ah-mazing! What are the chances of finding a gem like that with perfect tri-color amongst one of the rarest types of parti-sapphires?

Like one of my gemologist friends likes to say, "Mother Nature likes to work in a dirty kitchen." I think Mother Nature cooks up some major miracles in that dirty kitchen (planet Earth) so that a dull hunk of raw material becomes such a beautiful, miraculous jewel.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

That Kosnar gem would drive me crazy with that big blue/black area on the lower left. Keep looking.

 

[toomuchB]

Wow, @toomuchB! You are an incredible resource for Winza sapphires. This is all very helpful; especially the GIA paper on Winza sapphires. Thank you for being so generous in sharing all these links to other vendors selling Winza sapphires. I'm so happy I can geek out about this with you and others in this thread!

Also, that tri-color Winza in the GIA paper pic is ah-mazing! What are the chances of finding a gem like that with perfect tri-color amongst one of the rarest types of parti-sapphires?

Like one of my gemologist friends likes to say, "Mother Nature likes to work in a dirty kitchen." I think Mother Nature cooks up some major miracles in that dirty kitchen (planet Earth) so that a dull hunk of raw material becomes such a beautiful, miraculous jewel.

I'm all too happy to geek out with you lol

One of the preferences I gave Brad when looking out for such a sapphire was for a Tri color like this if possible. He's looked at Tucson maybe 3 years in a row for me, no luck. Not sure he ever has ever seen one, never asked. But it's certainly highly uncommon. He's seen and sold nice bicolors. I would accept the right bi-color, but I have particular preferences with those too.

Sometimes GIA publishes truly one off gems. For example fall 1997 G&G, they wrote on benitoite, and they share a photo of natural pink benitoite. This color does not exist outside of that stone and a report of a few very tiny crystals that were found alongside the larger crystal that produced that stone.

My gut says a tricolor winza is more likely than that, just based on the material's tendency to be zoned/multicolored. While if I'm looking for a pink benitoite my chances are zero.

If you have instagram:
Here's a cool piece. While not bicolor in the sense I think either of us are looking for (more of a parti-color), but I love the story behind it. I love how it was originally cut to hide the pink, then recut so creatively to bring out the the other colors.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Follow up to the above video:

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Searching 'winza sapphire' on IG will give you lots of cool eye-candy to look at, even if nothing concrete to buy.

@Ibrakeforpossums that stone is sold, but yes I'd agree. OP could ask them if they have more material if they are into that cut, which is why I shared it.
You touch on one problem these winza sapphires have in my experience:
Usually when one colorway is pleasing, the other is not.
A nice red or pink comes with blackish blue.
A nice blue comes with meh pink/red
That's before considering inclusions.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I haven't seen any new production from Winza in several years. Originally the find was all about ruby. Nice size ruby material with very good color and clarity was found. Some very nice stones were cut selling for big money. As the deposit got worked out, you started seeing these mixed colors with red/pink and blue, and also just blue, but these were often dark. The mixed color stones were priced much lower than the ruby, and depending on how the colors were arranged, some unique stones could be cut. At times the colors would blend and pretty much form a purple stone. Here are some examples I cut years ago. None are for sale, all long gone.

 

[Crystal Nerd]

I'm all too happy to geek out with you lol

One of the preferences I gave Brad when looking out for such a sapphire was for a Tri color like this if possible. He's looked at Tucson maybe 3 years in a row for me, no luck. Not sure he ever has ever seen one, never asked. But it's certainly highly uncommon. He's seen and sold nice bicolors. I would accept the right bi-color, but I have particular preferences with those too.

Sometimes GIA publishes truly one off gems. For example fall 1997 G&G, they wrote on benitoite, and they share a photo of natural pink benitoite. This color does not exist outside of that stone and a report of a few very tiny crystals that were found alongside the larger crystal that produced that stone.

My gut says a tricolor winza is more likely than that, just based on the material's tendency to be zoned/multicolored. While if I'm looking for a pink benitoite my chances are zero.

If you have instagram:
Here's a cool piece. While not bicolor in the sense I think either of us are looking for (more of a parti-color), but I love the story behind it. I love how it was originally cut to hide the pink, then recut so creatively to bring out the the other colors.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Follow up to the above video:

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Searching 'winza sapphire' on IG will give you lots of cool eye-candy to look at, even if nothing concrete to buy.

@Ibrakeforpossums that stone is sold, but yes I'd agree. OP could ask them if they have more material if they are into that cut, which is why I shared it.
You touch on one problem these winza sapphires have in my experience:
Usually when one colorway is pleasing, the other is not.
A nice red or pink comes with blackish blue.
A nice blue comes with meh pink/red
That's before considering inclusions.

Wow! @toomuchB, thanks for sharing that cool Instagram post on the gem dealer's journey to cut that lovely Winza sapphire. I agree that the dilemma with Winzas is the difficulty in finding one that has equal color zoning of both red/pink and a nice blue without too many inclusions or looking muddy.

Today, I contacted some gem dealers I trust to see if they have any nice Winza sapphires. Ivan from Adamant Gems says he doesn't have any (for all the reasons described in this thread) and Joel Eram from EurekaEureka on Etsy says he doesn't have any, either.

Since the Winza deposit sounds like it is of limited supply, I am growing resigned to the fact I might never find the Winza of my dreams. But at least we can all geek out about the perfect Winza on Pricescope!

 

[Crystal Nerd]

I haven't seen any new production from Winza in several years. Originally the find was all about ruby. Nice size ruby material with very good color and clarity was found. Some very nice stones were cut selling for big money. As the deposit got worked out, you started seeing these mixed colors with red/pink and blue, and also just blue, but these were often dark. The mixed color stones were priced much lower than the ruby, and depending on how the colors were arranged, some unique stones could be cut. At times the colors would blend and pretty much form a purple stone. Here are some examples I cut years ago. None are for sale, all long gone.

@PrecisionGem, thanks for sharing that helpful context on the history of the production of Winza sapphires. I didn't know that people were mining rubies from Winza before the sapphires, although that makes sense since rubies are so precious. Thanks also for sharing the pictures of the Winza sapphires that you cut and sold; they are stunning! Your precision cuts are truly beautiful.