Opinions on this sapphire?

[metall]

Hi all,

I've been having some serious bling envy being on PS. And after much debate with myself, I figured I would treat myself to a piece of new shiny. I was thinking something cheap-ish that wouldn't throw my current house reno budget out the window, but which will still satisfy my current bling lust. So after a lot of ebay browsing i found the below purple sapphire.

I liked the color in the video, the seller was a reputable PS recommended seller, it wasnt an overly large rock, and it was sub $100 which i was pretty pleased with. So I went ahead and picked up the cheapy purple sapphire.

But now that I have the stone in my possesion, it seems to be a bit different than the picture. The color is very off...in the seller pictures the stone was darker with more blue....the stone in person in more violet and is lighter. In all honesty i'm not complaining about the violet color. But on both ends of the oval there is some brown...something happening. In the vender picture there is one spot that i thought could be covered with a prong, but this is on both wnds when i tilt it.

Could I ask for a brutally honest opinion from all the CS experts of their thoughts on this stone? All opinions welcome whether it's about value, color, cut, if it passes any personal CS testsetc etc....

Ive posted the specs given by the vendor and vendor photos below. All photos w
hands or on bounty are my own. All opinions would be greatly appreciated and welcomed!

Gem Tpye: Sapphire
Weight: 1.40 ct.
Shape: Oval
Origin: Tanzania
Treatment: Heated
Size: 7.1 X 6.6 X 3.8
Hardness: 9
Luster: Excellence
Clarity: SI 1
Color: Purple
Tone: 6 Medium Dark
Hue: P
Saturation: 5 Strong

 

[daneshpastry]

I can't say it's a stone I would buy....I'm not sure what else to say...you bought a $100 stone and that's what you received. Do they have a return policy? Do you like it?

 

[LilAlex]

^ Agree with this.

There are no bargains. There are rip-offs and over-priced stones -- but there are no bargains. I would not think one could get a 1.4ct pure-color (any color) heat-only sapphire for $100. I'm not crazy about treated stones. I can't even say with confidence that that is a sapphire. If it's genuine and heat-only and either eye-clean or a little sleepy, then I think you got your money's worth irrespective of the cut or color, imo.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Yes I think I would send that back, and keep my eyes peeled for mastercutgems sales, and jeff davies ebay auctions and loupetroop. Over time a lot of things about that stone (the window, the saturation, the inclusions) will probably bug you.

Another consideration before purchasing something else is how much it will cost you to set a stone. It will be worthwhile seeing how much you think a custom setting and a calibrated setting (can only be used with certain stones that have special dimensions) will cost. Then work out backwards how much ($X+$Y) you will need to outlay for a ring with a stone that costs $X. Make sure it still looks like a good price for the finished product.

 

[Acinom]

The only thing that matters is whether you love it and want to set it.

Since you asked for opinions:
In my opinion every penny paid for this stone is a waste of money. The colour seems flat and dull and there is a huge window. It would be a pity to spend money to set this stone in a ring.
That said: I do not expect you will be able to buy a sapphire for 100$ that is appealing.

Hope you can send it back and save your money for a good stone. You can make a savvy buy by not buying a sapphire and perhaps buying preloved

 

[Bron357]

As others have said for $100 you aren’t going to get much. Personally, I’d recommend saving up your dollars for something better and worth buying.
The sapphire almost looks to be a “parti” ie part of it is yellow sapphire ?
If you’re really wanting a nice purple gem, amythest, especially the deep royal purple ones, are very beautiful and easier on the hip pocket.
If you don’t love it, send it back, it’s a $100 not well spent and it’s also going to cost extra $$$ to set it into a ring.

 

[Bluegemz]

My recommendation is to avoid spending money on purchases unless they truly move you. Instead, think about what you really want, and work towards that. Personally, my recent buying style and aim has been to save for maybe one or two bigger buys per year that I’m completely in love with. In my experience, every time I’ve bought something not quite high quality/pretty/good enough, Ive felt truly un.satisfied. I suspect one ends up spending more money in the end this way, with many smaller things, but never the one thing that one truly wants. Whereas of I save money for something great, I’m fully enamored and in love with it. I also then don’t have the urge to get another one of its kind.

The sapphire is pretty in its own way, but I’m hearing that it’s not what you wanted. I don’t believe that gems have to be perfect or trade ideal to be great. But they have to have a soul through an individual and unique beauty which you feel in your heart.

I once bought an army green zircon in a triangular shape. I talked myself into it because emotionally, I felt as though I ‘needed’ to buy something. Although great sparkle and size, it sits in the box because I can’t bring myself to spend money to set it because of the color. I also have bought a sapphire off of loupe troop a few years ago. Though lovely, it’s just not quite large enough...and so it sits in the box.

 

[metall]

Thanks all! It was an auction item that i saw had a little traction from a very well known ps recommended vendor. So I took the risk. Figured that the worst thing that could happen was I'd have to return it. I do have two potential settings i was planning of rehoming the stone to if it passed the PS test. Which it does not, guess its off to the post i go.

@Bron357 not sure how to tell if its a parti...both ends of this stone sort of turns grey/yellow grey which i just thought was just a lighting problem as it's been very rainy and gross all week. Its actually a bit lighter in person. The pictures are taken in my terrible kitchen light.

@LilAlex sort of my mindset. I wanted something for fun...not something ultra serious. If it comes out heat only sapphire, I'd be thrilled...if not....return is an option.

@qubitasaurus i actually won a bid from jeff which is on its way to me, which i plan to have set for my mil for mothers day. I just havent seen any stones in shades i would personally wear from him....yet...

Guess its back to the deawing board for me. I should have figured when the stone didn't make me smile when it came out of the packaging. Thanks all for your input!

 

[Rubybrick]

Thanks all! It was an auction item that i saw had a little traction from a very well known ps recommended vendor. So I took the risk. Figured that the worst thing that could happen was I'd have to return it. I do have two potential settings i was planning of rehoming the stone to if it passed the PS test. Which it does not, guess its off to the post i go.

@Bron357 not sure how to tell if its a parti...both ends of this stone sort of turns grey/yellow grey which i just thought was just a lighting problem as it's been very rainy and gross all week. Its actually a bit lighter in person. The pictures are taken in my terrible kitchen light.

@LilAlex sort of my mindset. I wanted something for fun...not something ultra serious. If it comes out heat only sapphire, I'd be thrilled...if not....return is an option.

@qubitasaurus i actually won a bid from jeff which is on its way to me, which i plan to have set for my mil for mothers day. I just havent seen any stones in shades i would personally wear from him....yet...

Guess its back to the deawing board for me. I should have figured when the stone didn't make me smile when it came out of the packaging. Thanks all for your input!

good luck with your search and I hope you find something that makes your heart sing soon!

 

[metall]

My recommendation is to avoid spending money on purchases unless they truly move you. Instead, think about what you really want, and work towards that. Personally, my recent buying style and aim has been to save for maybe one or two bigger buys per year that I’m completely in love with. In my experience, every time I’ve bought something not quite high quality/pretty/good enough, Ive felt truly un.satisfied. I suspect one ends up spending more money in the end this way, with many smaller things, but never the one thing that one truly wants. Whereas of I save money for something great, I’m fully enamored and in love with it. I also then don’t have the urge to get another one of its kind.

The sapphire is pretty in its own way, but I’m hearing that it’s not what you wanted. I don’t believe that gems have to be perfect. But they have to have a soul through an individual and unique beauty.

I once bought an army green zircon in a triangular shape. I talked myself into it because emotionally, I felt as though I ‘needed’ to buy something. Although great sparkle and size, it sits in the box because I can’t bring myself to spend money to set it because of the color. I also have bought a sapphire off of loupe troop a few years ago. Though lovely, it’s just not quite large enough...and so it sits in the box.

Hi @Bluegemz! Looks like you were posting right as i was. Thanks for your input! I was looking for a cheapish just for fun stone. And i didnt think it was going to be too much to set as i have 2 settings which i was looking to replace the stones in anyways. But it definitely was a different look than i anticipated. I figured for my first 'true' cs it wouldnt be a very expensive item....but would definitely be a learning experience.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

I haven't bought from that vendor recently- but in the past the videos were much more true to color than the photos. I do not think the stone looks very much like the photo in color or saturation. The brown you are seeing looks like a mineral inclusion- most likely iron.

I think most of us on this forum started out buying inexpensive "learner" stones and then we learned what flaws we were willing to accept in gemstones. For example, some people will only buy precision cut stones or stones that are strongly saturated without visible flaws. But the rule of thumb is that the stone should be beautiful to your eyes or it should go back.

 

[metall]

@LisaRN

Haha when you mentioned the video and i realized i never linked it. Funnily...the video color is ALSO not the stone color. It is definitely a violet in person. Not an ugly violet just an unexpected violet. Definitely a learner stone, and I'm ok with that. When i get the jeff davies stone, i will definitely have something to compare this experience with...though this one will already be in the mail back to the seller.

The video is below: http://www.numberonegem.com/ebay-vdo/2319-1.mp4 The video shows a lot lighter blue purple that it just doesnt reflect in person.

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

It's so sparkly in the video! You will learn that this was done in the best light possible, under ideal circumstances. It's hard to accept that what you are seeing online isn't what you receive, especially when you want it to be true. It's been a slow lesson for me to learn.

 

[chatoyancy]

I noticed the clarity grade is SI1. Regardless of how the photos look, that means the stone is not eye clean. You did say you knew about one inclusion though. I would return it (and I hate to return things with a passion). I think $100 is inexpensive for a gemstone, but a lot of money to waste on anything you don’t like.

Is you are set on a beautiful sapphire in that price range, you could always buy an accent stone. Otherwise, I would suggest looking at other stones that are less pricey.

 

[metall]

@MrsKMB - RIGHT? I had even thought to myself, well even if about 25% duller and the color is a little less saturated, I'd be happy if it comes close...but that turned out to be wrong.

@chatoyancy - I'm not set on anything at the moment. This was just a just for fun purchase. I do eventually want a big beautiful Ceylon or Kashmir blue sapphire. But I wouldn't buy that until I'm quite well versed in sapphires and can buy with confidence. This was an experimental learner stone, and something just for fun.

I want to thank everyone for their input, it does seem like I did some things correctly, but greatly underestimated external factors. I will probably make loads more mistakes in my quest to learn and be a more informed consumer. But hopefully future purchases will be better.

I did want to quickly point out that the $100 price tag wasn't the motivating factor in my purchase. I totally agree that it was an unreasonable price for a sapphire. The seller had it in auction and I saw that there were other bids, so I threw in a bid. I was as surprised as the next person when I won.

Which brings me to my next set of questions: Outside of looking at price, the specs provided for by the seller, and the photos/videos - When evaluating an online (or even an in person) stone what is the first thing you would look at? Is it the color, or would you search for inclusions, do you evaluate the cut, the windowing? What are the next steps you take to evaluate an online stone? What questions do you ask the vendor? What additional photos do you ask to see?

I'm trying to think of what could have been asked or done which would have eliminated this stone from the running. Hopefully I will ask the right questions next time. (or see something inherently in the stone which would eliminate it from the running)

 

[metall]

good luck with your search and I hope you find something that makes your heart sing soon!

Thank you for your encouraging words! I am still just learning the landscape. Hopefully one day!

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

@LisaRN

Haha when you mentioned the video and i realized i never linked it. Funnily...the video color is ALSO not the stone color. It is definitely a violet in person. Not an ugly violet just an unexpected violet. Definitely a learner stone, and I'm ok with that. When i get the jeff davies stone, i will definitely have something to compare this experience with...though this one will already be in the mail back to the seller.

The video is below: http://www.numberonegem.com/ebay-vdo/2319-1.mp4 The video shows a lot lighter blue purple that it just doesnt reflect in person.

You are right. Things seem to have changed since Tan (previous owner of NOG) is gone. I am excited for your stone from Jeff. Let us know your impressions when it arrives.

As for your questions the first thing that draws my eye when buying a stone online is color but I assume the color is at least somewhat manipulated in photes. Next is size and cut. So many colored stones are cut to maximize carat weight and therefore windowed. Lastly inclusions.

 

[Acinom]

Looking forward to see your stone from Jeff!

When it comes to selecting stones, my first priority is color! I love saturated stones and also all green-blue and blue hues.
Next is the ‘overall appearance’ which for me is a mix of sparkle (or glow), cut, color in different lighting conditions, inclusions, window etc. This is what I see when I study a video and photos
These factors make me fall in love with a stone. When the colour is amazing or rare, I am more forgiving about inclusions or a window.
Next is size: I love larger stones, but a stone does not have to be larger to be amazing.
Shape is not a factor of importance to me.

 

[metall]

Thank you all for your advice! Seems color is definitely most important and not unexpected. I imagine that when looking at hundreds of tiny pictures in an auction site like ebay, color would be a huge deciding factor of whether someone clicks a link.

@Acinom what is the difference between glow and sparkle? I'm a bit more versed in looking at 'shine' in terms of a diamond where you want to see every facet light up or 'fire' (what i used to call the shiny rainbows preps days). I noticed that w. a CS a lot of times when i look at facets they more 'reflect' light rather than 'sparkle' or sometimes when looking at a stone as a whole in daylight they have a sort of neon light like 'glow'. Im not sure if this is what you're referring to.

I find that my eyes are much less bothered by inclusions in a CS than in a diamond, probably because a CS has color to help 'mask' inclusions. What is the lowest clarity you would go in a CS before it becomes a bad stone? I know @chatoyancy mentioned the Si clarity. For me it didnt bother me as i had a pretty good idea of what was causing it. But then again i was also not diligent enough when asking about the type of inclusion. Also in terms of clarity...what is the absolute lowest clarity you would go? Are there certain inclusions in a CS that automatically put it off the buy list?

I also have questions about windowing....i had an idea that there was a window in this stone. But i was absolutely not prepared for how large this window would be! How can you tell? In the video or photo was there any point where the large window was shown that you went....oh nope...not acceptable window?

Question regarding treatments, i understand that the less treatments a some gets the better and there are 'not terrible treatments' ie cedaroil for emerald and there are 'bad treatments' ie glass filled stones. But how do you determine what level of treatment you are willing to accept for any particular stone? Not just in general but in terms of any given stone. Cuz i think the general consensus is no treatment is best. I see a lot of debate on both sides, some people who can tolerate the not terrible treatments and some that are no treatment at all people. But if you fall in love with a stones color, the cut is right, the clarity is spot on, and youre seriously about to buy...then you see that it's heat treated...would that ultimately put you off to the stone? Where does treatment fall in your what you look for list?

Size: i think that the only question i have about size is its correlation to price. @LilAlex mentioned above that its hardly likely that a 1.4 ct sapphire would go for 100...and i 100% agree, but when it comes to auction items, i have to wonder what would be a good 'start' bid to tell you that it might be genuine heat treat only sapphire? This stone was one that actually had a bit of a higher start bid, with 4 previous bids, which led me to think it would at least be all natural corundum.

Also to what extent would you trust certain vendors? Like myself, i really only have PS recommendations to go looking for vendors and stones. Do you trust PS recommended vendors more than say someone you may have known through a blah of a blah?

Overall, even though this ISN'T the stone for me, i am exceptionally happy that i bought it. It really helped open up a lot of discussion and I've learned sooo much! I think that having gone through the experience of looking for a stone, questioning my decision multiple times, buying, experiencing that disappointment and ultimately learning based on that experience will make me a stronger consumer.

Since i have a few more days with it before my return period closes i hope everyone will bear with me as i use this stone to ask 101 questions, and use it as my study on how to become a better gem buyer. That is the ultimate goal!

 

[deco1]

If you've not yet had a chance to read it, you'll find this thread particularly helpful:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/

 

[Bron357]

Hi, in therms of treatment, heated is common it’s done to reduce the silk (rutile) inclusions which makes the stone clearer. This can usually be IDed with a 30 plus x Loupe (if you know what to look for).
Unheated is more expensive to buy and I would be wanting an appropriate GIA or AGL report (not a report from India or China) that confirms this.
Buying at auction can be problematic.
Problem 1 - these days gems are also being Beryllium treated along with heat to improve colour. This cannot be detected with a Loupe, usually a chemical analysis is needed (and that would cost hundreds of dollars). This process is not favored and unscrupulous sellers don’t disclose it, so it’s risk.
Problem 2 - glass filling. This is becoming really common. They can take total rubbish material, bleach it then high heat it with coloured glass material and “tad dah” fabulous “looking” gem. Such treatment can usually be detected by Loupe (or eyes) to see the surface reaching fractures (like tiny snail trails) across the gems facets.
Problem 3 - Man made synthetics. These days synthetics are so good they even go to the trouble of replicating internal flaws! These test on Presidum gem tester as “sapphire” or “ruby” because they are real proper corundum, just made in a lab. You need a Loupe to find telltale curved striation or to see natural inclusions to be able to distinguish a synthetic from a Natural.
So, unless you are buying from a reputable seller, receiving a recognized lab report and/or have the ability to assess gems upon receipt (sending gems off for testing is very expensive) spending $100 on a gem actually worth $2 is no bargain.
Spending $2,000 on a $2 Gem is even worse, but it happens.

 

[metall]

@deco1 thank you, I've read the buying gemstone link a few times...but i find it a little over technical and too simplistic at the same time. It does provide good terms and general information, but some of the finer points of buying are either over my head or not latching on. Like i can look at a report and understand what oil treatment might be...and that it may lower the price of a stone...but how does it affect my buying of the stone??

@bron, thats what i keep getting tripped up over....and in my head what makes CS shopping so much more difficult...but very rewarding and fun. For example when i was shopping for diamonds there are so many reputable dealers and salespeople, i wasnt too worried about getting a manmade stone, and there is definitely not as much of a need to get a report per stone. My eyeballs could tell me what i needed to know and there were solid numbers and imaging to be done (not at my expense!)

As a pretty pro shopper, im also having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that i shouldnt just trust my eyes to be truthful and provide me with the right information! I consider myself a pretty seasoned luxury goods ebayer....i can pretty much spot fake shoes from down the street...i just wish some of those skills would translate! Or if they are transferable i want to know how!

 

[chrono]

Glow: highly saturated stones will pop with the intensity of its body colour
Sparkle: a well cut stone will flash and sparkle, where the facets light up/reflect
A good stone should exhibit both. Some stones will exhibit one or the other only. Some have neither.

Clarity: eye clean is the standard. I always avoid surface reaching fractures. If the price is right, I don't mind those that are on the pavilion, but not seen from the top. I avoid clouds or bubbles that cause too much haziness.

Window: If it is very small and easily masked, I'm fine with it. Tilt windows are different and I'm okay with those. As you gain experience, you'll be able to spot them more easily and know where your tolerance lies.

Treatments exist for a reason; to make the stone more attractive at a lower price. As long as it is clearly stated and priced accordingly, I don't see any issues with treatment. In general, I actually don't like oil that much for emeralds since it isn't nor permanent. Sometimes, a bit of resin is mixed with the oil but isn't disclosed. In emeralds, the level of treatment actually matters more. I prefer untreated in all gems except emerald (light resin) and sapphire (heat only, no diffusion). Above all, colour first.

There is no standard pricing; there are far too many variables to say X stone costs $Y amount or even in that ballpark. Natural is another word that is rather iffy to me because it doesn't really tell me anything. Each C affects the pricing, how quickly the vendor wants to move the stone, overhead costs, etc makes it quite the challenge to figure out pricing. Over time, you'll have a better feel.

The PS list is who most buy from. Some had good experiences and some had terrible experiences so you still have to read reviews and do your own homework. I highly encourage lots of questions and even posting what you are interested in. That said, I caution buying too many auction stones etc since return shipping adds up over time.

 

[arkieb1]

I find blue sapphires notoriously difficult to take accurate photos of and even more notoriously difficult to get accurate pics of from vendors. I've sent back dozens and dozens of them. And then there are vendors out there that actually mislead buyers intentionally with videos and pics that in no way accurately represent the stone/s they have for sale. For the price you cannot buy a sapphire that size in the colour you are looking for. You will however, find a much smaller stone in a nice blue or something like a decent looking Aussie or Thai sapphire.

 

[metall]

@chrono Excellent set of observations, I think that what I definitely need to do is compile a list of questions that I should ask each vendors and a second list of due diligence that I need to take before, during and after the buying process. I totally understand what you mean about auction stones. I don't generally bid if I don't receive satisfactory answers. And I wasn't really expecting Ebay stones to be fabulous. This is definitely a one off. I will definitely post stones here that I quite like before buying in the future. Snipers be damned during this learning period.

@arkieb1 - I'm learning that all stones are hard to get good pictures of! Haha I keep messing with the lights in my house, outdoors etc. etc. with this sapphire to try to emulate that blue purple in the vendor picture...but alas...no cigar. I will post some of my best work later tonight (keep in mind my best is still pretty shite!)

I figured that there are a lot of frogs out there and not many princes. Though I have to say, I am very much enjoying this journey!

 

[corundum_conundrum]

I agree with everyone else you should return it.

There are actually good bargains to be had on ebay/mastercut/thegemtrader on nice part-colored sapphires. Even Precision Gem occasionally posts a very pretty parti sapphire for a few hundred dollars.

I own an unheated 1.25 carat yellow/blue parti sapphire that upon face up looks chartreuse and nice that cost like $30 on ebay.

Look at a lot of pictures of windowed stones and you'll begin spotting them easily. You can gauge saturation by comparing a photo of a stone you're considering with a photo of a very saturated stone of the same species. The gray or brown in an unsaturated stone will begin jumping out at you when compared with a saturated stone.

 

[metall]

I agree with everyone else you should return it.

There are actually good bargains to be had on ebay/mastercut/thegemtrader on nice part-colored sapphires. Even Precision Gem occasionally posts a very pretty parti sapphire for a few hundred dollars.

I own an unheated 1.25 carat yellow/blue parti sapphire that upon face up looks chartreuse and nice that cost like $30 on ebay.

Look at a lot of pictures of windowed stones and you'll begin spotting them easily. You can gauge saturation by comparing a photo of a stone you're considering with a photo of a very saturated stone of the same species. The gray or brown in an unsaturated stone will begin jumping out at you when compared with a saturated stone.

Yep...the stone is going back... I'm just waiting til the end of the week to return so that I get to play with it while it IS in my possession and I have the ability to really study a stone in hand.

I really appreciate your advice about saturation and windowing. I definitely need to train my eyes to look for these details and it's good to know that eventually I will just be able to look at a stone and "know" what it is i'm looking at!

 

[Linda W]

Metall, I hope you find a sapphire that steals your heart. Xx

 

[metall]

Thanks @Linda W! I'm gonna be on this road for a while I think, but totally worth the trip!