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Opinions on color shifting ruby

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,597
Even my Google Pixel phone can't get the color just right.

I'm considering the following ring for purchase on a payment plan. I love how it looks in my office setting. Stone is certified by GIA as unheated and Burmese. It has a raspberry purplish (to my eyes) modifier, but appears quite lovely. It makes my pink spinel look pale in comparison. I don't see a window in person, but it appears to have one in phone photos?

It appears to color shift based on lighting, but looks good in diffused light from a south-facing window. No north-facing window for me.

What do you guys think? On the fence about this one, leaning towards buying.

Pic 1:
IMG_20200121_083910.jpg
Ring on top left for consideration, next to my ER and an orange red spinel under skylight in morning.

Pic 2:
IMG_20200121_110049.jpg
Facing south in the morning at office.

Pic 3:
IMG_20200121_111034.jpg
Zoomed in shot of ring.

Pic 4:
IMG_20200121_111129.jpg
Another diffused light photo, camera doesn't allow the color saturation as it appears to my eyes.

Pic 5:
00100lrPORTRAIT_00100_BURST20200121110540446_COVER.jpg
Full hand perspective, diffused light.

Pic 6:
IMG_20200121_110457.jpg
Not at desk, higher level of diffused sunlight from the window.

Pic 7:
IMG_20200121_110431.jpg
Here it is under more direct sunlight. It turns purplish.

Pic 8:
IMG_20200121_112133.jpg
Stone facing sun.

Pic 9:
IMG_20200121_121250.jpg
Color comparison with reddish pink Burmese spinel, diffused light.

Pic 10:

IMG_20200121_111758.jpg
Tried to color adjust to show the darker, more vivid tone that my eyes see. My eyes still see 80% tone, whereas photo only shows 65-70%.

Pic 11:
IMG_20200121_112605.jpg
My best photo, though not showing the darker tone my eyes see. I think pic 2 was the worst.

Pic 12:
IMG_20200121_123556.jpg
Comparing the ruby to the reddish pink spinel again. The spinel scintillates more, but the ruby is just the right amount of silk and vivid color.

Help me decide!
 
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Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
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Feb 5, 2014
Messages
1,535
You sure have gorgeous rings!!! This one is lovely too. I have a soft spot for untreated Burmese rubies. It has nice color too and some lovely silk.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,597
In the photos the table area sometimes looks fine, and other times it looks really dark.
This puzzles me because the table never looks dark to me irl, so idk if this is Google's image processing, or if silk doesn't fool digital sensors but fools my eyes.

A couple more pictures, afternoon weak sunlight through windows.

IMG_20200121_134619.jpg IMG_20200121_134735.jpg
Edit: at this point, I'm still leaning towards keeping it. If I'm crazy for wanting to shell out $5k for this 1.32 ct unheated Burmese ruby, speak up!
 
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ChaiK

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
917
It’s difficult to capture reds. My rubies are very red. At times, they photo dark in the middle, as if there is extinction. But there isn‘t. And the UK light is not forgiving at all. So if my rubies look a glowy red to me in this grey winter light, I am not bothered about how they photograph. I just sit and enjoy them all.

@voce, You're the best at seeing shades of red. If your eyes see red, then this must be a gorgeous piece. I intend to ask you and @prs when I next want to buy a red.
 
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prs

Brilliant_Rock
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Dec 26, 2017
Messages
924
@ChaiK is right, you are the best at seeing reds, so if you see a gorgeous red then it must be so. Have faith in yourself!!! ;)2

It's a lovely setting, but it has to be all about the ruby. To spend $5K on 1.32ct ruby it better be the showstopper ruby that scratches your ruby itch for years to come!!! Only you can answer that question, but if it's not, then maybe it would be best to save the money until that forever ruby comes along.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
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May 13, 2018
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2,597
@ChaiK is right, you are the best at seeing reds, so if you see a gorgeous red then it must be so. Have faith in yourself!!! ;)2

It's a lovely setting, but it has to be all about the ruby. To spend $5K on 1.32ct ruby it better be the showstopper ruby that scratches your ruby itch for years to come!!! Only you can answer that question, but if it's not, then maybe it would be best to save the money until that forever ruby comes along.
I see an 80% tone rose red. For some reason the photos in post #5 are pretty true to color in the afternoon sunlight. The ruby looks best (gorgeous red) in diffused light, but it's all over the place when the sun shines on it directly, sometimes shifting to hot pink and magenta, probaly because of fluorescence. I don't know what this ruby would be on the AGL color scan system, but I'm guessing 15% pink 75% red 10% purple? I don't think I will be getting the showstopper ruby you seem to expect me to get, as I have a rule for myself that I'm not going to go over $10k on any one piece of bling until I am making six figures, and I'm not there yet.

This would be my third unheated ruby above 1 ct, if I decide to buy. I don't have the itch for rubies, but I have been buying a lot of spinels. This one, I think, would stop me from wanting to buy yet more red spinels. Part of my motivation to add this to my collection is that it's Burmese and a typical (not top) color for unheated Burmese. I am collecting different origins for spinels and for unheated corundum. So far for rubies, I have Tanzanian, Mozambique, 3mm Madagascar, and so if I buy this Burmese, the only one(s) left will be Vietnam, maybe Ceylon, depending on where you draw the line for pink and red.

And as far as saving money, I'm not good at letting $$ sit in savings accounts. This is why I must have money automatically deducted every paycheck into a retirement account.
 
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voce

Ideal_Rock
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May 13, 2018
Messages
2,597
IMG_20200121_161058.jpg
Pic 15: ruby in setting sun light. It definitely appears very vivid.

IMG_20200121_161130.jpg
Pic 16: ruby in mixed light, sunlight and halogen bulb lighting.

Compared with my engagement ruby, this one isn't pure red but is without that brown mask from having iron in the crystal.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
2,597
Today it's very sunny. Here's the ruby from this thread next to my forever ruby in my engagement ring. I think I like the ruby under consideration because it's different from what I already have. This color reminds me of the rubies studding the objects on display in a ruby exhibit at the Aga Khan museum last year. Those rubies from the collection of the Mughal emperors were all this shade.
IMG_20200122_115406.jpg
^North facing window as Thai vendors use.
IMG_20200122_102603.jpg
^south facing window
IMG_20200122_111725.jpg
^sunlight through window
Top color 251,50,146 in RGB. Bottom color 235,20,61 in RGB. Red and green create orange. Red and blue create pink/purple.

At this point, no one has voiced strong opposition, so I'm hoping to trust my gut. I think it's priced appropriately even for a pink sapphire, considering it's unheated and comes with a GIA report. It looks beautiful enough to my eyes.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,854
I think it’s lovely. I prefer the rubies that tone towards pink rather than orange/ brown.
but the most important thing is do you love it? Does it look good to your eyes in most lighting conditions?
and seeing what some unheated rubies are selling for, I think $5k is a great price.
 

ChaiK

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
917
Today it's very sunny. Here's the ruby from this thread next to my forever ruby in my engagement ring. I think I like the ruby under consideration because it's different from what I already have. This color reminds me of the rubies studding the objects on display in a ruby exhibit at the Aga Khan museum last year. Those rubies from the collection of the Mughal emperors were all this shade.
IMG_20200122_115406.jpg
^North facing window as Thai vendors use.
IMG_20200122_102603.jpg
^south facing window
IMG_20200122_111725.jpg
^sunlight through window
Top color 251,50,146 in RGB. Bottom color 235,20,61 in RGB. Red and green create orange. Red and blue create pink/purple.

At this point, no one has voiced strong opposition, so I'm hoping to trust my gut. I think it's priced appropriately even for a pink sapphire, considering it's unheated and comes with a GIA report. It looks beautiful enough to my eyes.
Although, pink sapphires command lower prices. So maybe look at flouresence. Oh, this is so hard. I love red and pink. But I won't pay a ruby price for a pink sapphire. And I do so love this colour. You're so lucky! It does not look like a pink sapphire at all. It looks like a ruby. Love love.
 
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voce

Ideal_Rock
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May 13, 2018
Messages
2,597
@Bron357 thank you for your kind remarks. I do love it, I think, or else why would I take so many pictures of it? I progressed from on the fence to leaning towards keeping it, especially after I convinced my DF to be OK with my desire to add this ring to our family heirloom collection. It does look good to my eyes in most lighting conditions.

@ChaiK I think when it comes to pink sapphire, there's quite a range of saturation, and unheated in this color saturation is rare. If this is a pink sapphire, it ranks among the most saturated. As a price comparison, I saw a Ceylon origin reddish pink sapphire on Mastercut Gems for ~$2000/ct listed price, ~$1400/ct sale price. I think it's fair to pay $3000/ct on this ruby, considering that it's unheated and Burmese origin. And if this is what the ruby is worth, then I'm getting a great price on the platinum and diamonds.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,111
I think you mean deeper saturation, not tone, when comparing what your eyes see to what your photos show. ?????

It’s a pretty stone, but I’ve seen clean spinels that look like that. They might be just as pricey though. $5k is a fair price because it looks very included in your shots.
 

MissyBeaucoup

Brilliant_Rock
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Mar 10, 2017
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921
I love the color! Looks like a good find to me, and in keeping with your collection and favorites.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
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May 13, 2018
Messages
2,597
I think you mean deeper saturation, not tone, when comparing what your eyes see to what your photos show. ?????

It’s a pretty stone, but I’ve seen clean spinels that look like that. They might be just as pricey though. $5k is a fair price because it looks very included in your shots.
Have you ever read Richard Wise's book, titled Secrets of the Gem Trade? I think my terminology comes from there, if I remember correctly. So with this terminology, a 30% tone is pastel, 80% is ideal tone for reds, greens, blues, and at 90% the gem is overly dark, with 100% appearing black. So if you look at a full AGL report, the color grade that's 2.5/75 means 75% tone, close to the gamut limit of 80-85%, before the gem is over-saturated and looks dark. When a ColorScan says R_70 Pk/P_15 O_15 to me the pink/purple or orange are color modifiers and have got nothing to do with tone, which to me when used as a %, indicates saturation.

Regarding the inclusions, they're there for sure, but some are silk. At arm's length, when I'm typing, the ruby looks eye-clean. At 6 inches and without magnification, it looks VS. It's only within 3 inches that I see SI, and at 10X magnification, I would say moderately included. When I take pictures with my phone, I hold it fairly close and zoom in.

I have no doubt I can buy a red spinel that's cleaner for the price, but rubies are higher on the Moh's scale, and more durable theoretically. To me, red spinels and rubies have different looks. Good rubies and sapphires have silk, which adds to the gem's allure if they're not heavy enough to affect the transparency too much. Silk can do much to hide an imperfect cut. Spinels, on the other hand, have cleaner crystals generally, and are much less able to disguise a bad native cut, unfortunately. I love both, but imo no red spinel, even if pure red, can match the intensity of my engagement ring ruby under direct sunlight. I think this is due to silk, because that ruby is also included, yet still very beautiful.

I love the color! Looks like a good find to me, and in keeping with your collection and favorites.
Thank you MissyBeaucoup! It is in keeping with the same size of ring I like to wear in my collection, though I had nothing to do with the design choice this time! It's a vintage beauty. :razz:
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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@voce, thanks for clarifying.

I’ve seen incredible red spinel with a small hypnotic amount of silk. However, you’re right about the durability, although I think an 8 on the Mohs is generous and good enough for a carefully worn e-ring. I’ve seen major facet abrasion on Liz Taylor’s ruby ring in the auction catalog, so even the most durable gems are at risk.

Good luck in your decision.
 

eapj

Brilliant_Rock
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Jun 3, 2017
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554
I think the stone and setting are lovely. And you seem to really like it which is the most important part.
 

Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
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I like it! Was going to ask you if it looked slightly silky to you because on my monitor I can absolutely see it. It looks red leaning pink/purple depending on the image. That said, I like it. If I wanted it to skew redder I'd pop into high karat yellow gold.

Considering the price on non heated rubies, its a good price as its not super top level creme of the crop color for Burmese but hard to mistake it for anything but a ruby (at least from what I see)
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
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2,597
Thanks for your feedback, @eapj and @Arcadian. You make me feel better about my decision to buy it.

@T L I guess it could be that I need to see more top spinels in person. Both my top color loose spinels, after setting, ceased to be as glowy. They looked just as intensely red in pictures, but not in person, compared to my ruby. I have seen clean looking spinels and also very sleepy spinels, such as some sold by OTL/CDGEMSTONE on Etsy. I have yet to see ones with just the right amount of silk. Maybe I should start saving to go to a trade show? But which ones would be worth visiting? You need to be a jeweler to get in the AGTA one!
 
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deorwine

Shiny_Rock
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May 5, 2005
Messages
276
I LOVE that slightly pinkish tone to that ruby -- that's the color I would love to have :D

As for the setting/glow question, it does depend on the setting as well and how it interacts with the particular stone. I have a not-quite-top-color reddish-purplish-pink sapphire that looks amazing in its cheap ring mount because light on the sides percolates through the entire stone and gives it a little extra glow. Is the gallery on your spinel vs. ruby rings different?
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
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May 13, 2018
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2,597
@deorwine it's difficult to compare regarding the setting, because I try to have variety in setting styles as well as in the color of my gems. While the setting style may have a part in explaining the difference, I notice that in my spinels, as well as in my clean-as-a-whistle VS clarity under 10x magnification Mozambique ruby, the extinction patterns from the cutting become MORE noticeable, not less, under direct sunlight. I'm comparing the same stones to themselves, how they look under diffused light to how they look under direct sunlight. My only conclusion is that the stones, either of spinel or corundum varieties, that do not look better under direct sunlight do not have enough silk to give that intense glow.

I've had the silky engagement ruby for as long as I've bee a gem enthusiast. I have yet to see a spinel within the precise range of silk I prefer. The spinels I have bought were either cleaner than these rubies, or else the inclusions weren't silk inclusions.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for your feedback, @eapj and @Arcadian. You make me feel better about my decision to buy it.

@T L I guess it could be that I need to see more top spinels in person. Both my top color loose spinels, after setting, ceased to be as glowy. They looked just as intensely red in pictures, but not in person, compared to my ruby. I have seen clean looking spinels and also very sleepy spinels, such as some sold by OTL/CDGEMSTONE on Etsy. I have yet to see ones with just the right amount of silk. Maybe I should start saving to go to a trade show? But which ones would be worth visiting? You need to be a jeweler to get in the AGTA one!
I guess any show with Vlad Yavorskky would be an ideal place to see top quality red spinel.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
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I guess any show with Vlad Yavorskky would be an ideal place to see top quality red spinel.
Vlad Yavorskky top spinels would be out of my comfort zone with respect to pricing. Also highly doubt that I can assess the glow under direct sunlight. Very few vendors, Julia B among them, will show the stone under direct sunlight, and my assertion about my engagement ruby is in the specific circumstance of direct sunlight.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Vlad Yavorskky top spinels would be out of my comfort zone with respect to pricing. Also highly doubt that I can assess the glow under direct sunlight. Very few vendors, Julia B among them, will show the stone under direct sunlight, and my assertion about my engagement ruby is in the specific circumstance of direct sunlight.
Absolutely, but I just wanted to point out that they do exist, and you never know if you might get lucky and get one second hand or some other fortunate circumstance.

The ruby seems like a good option at a fair price.
 

LilAlex

Shiny_Rock
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Strongly advise against buying any jewelry on a "payment plan." Buy what you can afford or don't buy. That is all.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
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May 13, 2018
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Strongly advise against buying any jewelry on a "payment plan." Buy what you can afford or don't buy. That is all.
I think this is well-meant advice, but "that's all" made me think of Miranda Priestley from The Devil Wears Prada :lol-2:. What a throwback to my youth :cool2:.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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I like it, it's very pretty, at the pinker end of red not a strict red red, but neon enough in bright lighting to still be nice!!!

My Iphone struggles to take accurate and decent pics of reds too!!!
 
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