Opinion on this diamond?

[lelli25]

Hi all,

I'm very new to this forum, but can already say I've picked up on a few learnings already.

Hoping to reach out to the experts and get your opinion on the following diamond which I am looking to purchase. The GIA report #2408267306.

https://www.diamondsselect.com.au/files/360/crg67306/

Would love to know your opinions on this item What would you roughly price this at?

Specs
- 0.93 carat
- Colour F
- Clarity VS2
- Cut Grade / Polish / Symmetry Excellent
- Fluoro None

Other
6.22 - 6.25 x 3.85
Table 59
Depth 61.7
Crown Angle 36
Pavilion Angle 40.6
Star top 50%
Star bottom 75%
Facet Medium - Slightly thick 4%

Thank you and appreciate you time / efforts.

 

[DejaWiz]

It looks OK in that rotational view. I recommend that you get advanced images (ASET or Ideal-Scope) for the 40.6/36.0/59.0 combo to check for any potential light leakage.

Hard to tell if there is any darkening around the edges or with the uppers, maybe Karl_K can have a look and offer his assessment.

Here's the StoneAlgo synopsis for it:

Price and quality scores for GIA Number 2408267306

View the fair price estimate, Cut Score® and price history for GIA Certified Diamond 2408267306. Everything you need to know to buy this diamond.

www.stonealgo.com

 

[Karl_K]

59 table 36 crown with 50% lowers is likely to have issues in the upper girdle area. If it does not its the gia rounding making the numbers worse than they actually are.
Video is inconclusive, at points it looks ok at others it looks like it has issues.

 

[DejaWiz]

59 table 36 crown with 50% lowers is likely to have issues in the upper girdle area. If it does not its the gia rounding making the numbers worse than they actually are.
Video is inconclusive, at points it looks ok at others it looks like it has issues.

Thank you kindly, Karl_K.

 

[Karl_K]

59 table 36 crown with 50% STARS is likely to have issues in the upper girdle area. If it does not its the gia rounding making the numbers worse than they actually are.
Video is inconclusive, at points it looks ok at others it looks like it has issues.

see correction in bold.

 

[lelli25]

see correction in bold.

Thanks @Karl_K & @DejaWiz - the company I am purchasing off provides me with good corporate rates compared to other dealers and even online. The diamond also comes with a Diavik cert which has some sentimental value for me.

Would you consider this a good purchase based on what you can see? I would obviously like to purchase my partner a good quality diamond and the scoring on HLA (well not scoring but it was <2) and Stonealgo (84% meaning in the top 50%) being ok. In saying that we both don't know much about diamonds and not sure if we would pick up this differences by just looking at it.

Again appreciate your input

 

[lelli25]

I'll also add an additional two diamonds which I found of interest

1) https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/gia-number-1216532255

2) https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/gia-number-2223007989

Out of the 3 (inlcuding the first) - which would you see the best?

Thanks

 

[Karl_K]

I'll also add an additional two diamonds which I found of interest

1) https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/gia-number-1216532255

2) https://www.stonealgo.com/diamond-details/gia-number-2223007989

Out of the 3 (inlcuding the first) - which would you see the best?

Thanks

none of the above.
#2 is steep deep and #3 has the same issue as 1 but worse.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

You might find these PS member recommended proportions useful for your search:

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

 

[lelli25]

You might find these PS member recommended proportions useful for your search:

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

Thanks @Diamond_Enthusiast - Both the top two diamonds mostly fall within those ranges.

Is it that the diamonds are 'good' but aren't spectacular or are they both just plain average. Only asking as with these diamonds I do get corporate benefits from my work which gives good pricing.

The feedback from HCA is a 1.9 for the first and 2.0 for the second

 

[kb1gra]

Thanks @Diamond_Enthusiast - Both the top two diamonds mostly fall within those ranges.

Is it that the diamonds are 'good' but aren't spectacular or are they both just plain average. Only asking as with these diamonds I do get corporate benefits from my work which gives good pricing.

The feedback from HCA is a 1.9 for the first and 2.0 for the second

Are you sure these prices are so amazing? As a benefits administrator, I’ve rarely seen a corporate perks situation that gave pricing that was much better on pretty much any item.

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Thanks @Diamond_Enthusiast - Both the top two diamonds mostly fall within those ranges.

Is it that the diamonds are 'good' but aren't spectacular or are they both just plain average. Only asking as with these diamonds I do get corporate benefits from my work which gives good pricing.

The feedback from HCA is a 1.9 for the first and 2.0 for the second

You want complementary proportions and the reason why we aren't recommending these stones is because these proportions don't work well together.

Here are the long-winded version of what @Karl_K said succinctly:

Tables of 1 & 3 are large and combines poorly with a steep crown of 36 and 50 star may be an issues due to GIA rounding because the actual star may be even higher than 50. Star of 55 on stone 3 makes the crown even steeper than the 50 star of stone 1, hence even worse.

Stone 2 has a relatively steep 35 crown which is combined with a 41 pavilion angle which is also steep (steep-deep stone that we don't like). You want a more shallow pavilion angle for this crown, example: 40.6.

If you get discounts with that vendor accessing stones through Adiamor, there are probably better stones on Adiamor that you can choose from.

HCA is a rejection tool not a selection tool. Score < 2 is a pass, > 2 is a fail. You still need to look at the specifics of the stone (proportions, videos, advanced images, etc.) to assess.

 

[lelli25]

Thanks all for your replies. Just got in touch with the dealer and diamonds 2) and 3) are not stock items actually so no discounts on them. Diamond 1) I am able to get for roughly 5200 USD @Diamond_Enthusiast

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Diamond 1) I am able to get for roughly 5200 USD @Diamond_Enthusiast

If $5200 is your budget, consider these options:

WhiteFlash

Diamond | 0.902 ct H SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4361092

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.902 carat H color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4361092

www.whiteflash.com

This is an ACA from WhiteFlash that is H&A stone with best of the best cut with advanced images to prove it. Upgrade policy is excellent so if you decide to upgrade any aspect down the track like, size, color, clarity etc. it is an option.

Adiamor

1.01 Carat H VS2 Round Brilliant Natural Diamond GIA Certified 6395784685 Affinity Cut - D48216358

www.adiamor.com

I noticed that all the options you previously listed were available via Adiamor, so in case you can get discounts on diamonds available through them, the above is a better cut option.
I can see the inclusion on the table and am wondering if it will be eye clean (bear in mind how magnified the video is). This Ritani website for the same stone says it is eye clean but still you might want to enquire to be sure.

1.01 Carat Round Diamond GIA 6395784685 | Ritani

1.01 Carat Round Earth Diamond ID Cut H Color VS2 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #6395784685

www.ritani.com

 

[lelli25]

Thank you @Diamond_Enthusiast !! I just checked up with the 1.01 carat and that has a black occlusion most like visible to the naked eye.

The 0.9 is a little small for my liking. I can stretch the budget up to or around 6000 USD. Are there any others of interest in that range?

Opinions on this item:
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.01-ct-H-VS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D48691574?rfr=search



In your opinion too - are these far superior to my option 1) of the 0.93 point?

 

[lelli25]

Thank you @Diamond_Enthusiast !! I just checked up with the 1.01 carat and that has a black occlusion most like visible to the naked eye.

The 0.9 is a little small for my liking. I can stretch the budget up to or around 6000 USD. Are there any others of interest in that range?

Opinions on this item:
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.01-ct-H-VS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D48691574?rfr=search



In your opinion too - are these far superior to my option 1) of the 0.93 point?

Let me rephrase - I found this diamond which would stretch my budget a little but looks like it has more of the ideal dimensions.

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.01-ct-H-VS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D48691574?rfr=search

what are your thoughts on this ? @Karl_K @DejaWiz ? Thank you so much

 

[DejaWiz]

If this is in your budget, then give it a look:

1.01 Carat E VS2 Round Brilliant Natural Diamond GIA Certified 6395460766 Affinity Cut - D48525928

1.01 carat, Round, E Color, VS2 clarity, GIA Certified Diamond, Affinity Cut Natural Diamond, D48525928

www.adiamor.com

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Thank you @Diamond_Enthusiast !! I just checked up with the 1.01 carat and that has a black occlusion most like visible to the naked eye.

The 0.9 is a little small for my liking. I can stretch the budget up to or around 6000 USD. Are there any others of interest in that range?

Opinions on this item:
https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1.01-ct-H-VS2-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D48691574?rfr=search



In your opinion too - are these far superior to my option 1) of the 0.93 point?

The black inclusion actually looks much worse in the video than it would actually would to the naked eye because of the level of magnification in the video. According to the description on Ritani, it is actually eye clean but I would say to confirm to be sure.

With stones that are 0.9ish ct, they don't always look much smaller than 1ct depending on how it is cut, especially because there are quite a lot of stones at 1ct that are cut deep or hold extra weight at the girdle to make the 1ct mark (so that it can sell at a premium). So always worth looking at the dimensions because you can sometimes get a bargain at just under 1ct.

That last 1.01 ct H VS2 you asked about has better cut proportions than the previous stones you posted.

Here is another Adiamor option to consider at around $6000:

1.01 Carat G SI1 Round Brilliant Natural Diamond GIA Certified 6391052232 Affinity Cut - D47536619

www.adiamor.com

 

[lelli25]

Again thank you @Diamond_Enthusiast

Out of the two 1) That I posted above (affinity cut H 1.01 ct VS2) vs 2) the one you posted which would you see as better?

I'm not an expert in diamonds so my purchase off the internet would likely be the only one I purchase rather than returning as I have to pay duties.

Finally - I know i've asked it multiple times but the first .93 I posted would you consider that a 'bad' diamond / a good diamond / above average diamond / an ok diamond at the 5200 USD mark?

Your option you listed 1.01 g SI1 looks to be a really good option. Would you say the inclusions aren't an issue and the location of them wont effect the diamond? If I were to purchase this it would really be from the advice from the forum but you've seen thousands more diamonds than I have

Also I did ask the vendor about the black occlusion and they did say it would be visible to the eye if I were to look at it (for the one that DejaWiz mentioned)

Thanks!

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Again thank you @Diamond_Enthusiast

Out of the two 1) That I posted above (affinity cut H 1.01 ct VS2) vs 2) the one you posted which would you see as better?

I'm not an expert in diamonds so my purchase off the internet would likely be the only one I purchase rather than returning as I have to pay duties.

Finally - I know i've asked it multiple times but the first .93 I posted would you consider that a 'bad' diamond / a good diamond / above average diamond / an ok diamond at the 5200 USD mark?

Your option you listed 1.01 g SI1 looks to be a really good option. Would you say the inclusions aren't an issue and the location of them wont effect the diamond? If I were to purchase this it would really be from the advice from the forum but you've seen thousands more diamonds than I have

Also I did ask the vendor about the black occlusion and they did say it would be visible to the eye if I were to look at it (for the one that DejaWiz mentioned)

Thanks!

Out of the two H 1.01ct VS2 this one is better from a cut and price perspective:

1.01 Carat H VS2 Round Brilliant Natural Diamond GIA Certified 6395784685 Affinity Cut - D48216358

www.adiamor.com

Though if inclusion bothers you though, that might be an issue. As mentioned before though, you can try to confirm for how eye clean it is for that particular stone with the vendor.

I do not recommend the first .93 stone you posted. There are potential issues (see post #3 from Karl_K) with the cut and especially because you mentioned returning is difficult due to duties/taxes, I would say err on the side of safety and avoid. FYI - if you are in Australia, only GST is charged on loose diamonds, not duty. If it is a finished ring however, you may be subject to duty. Australia and US has a free trade agreement in place though, so you may still only pay GST if the ring is made in USA with material from USA.

If you really need to put an assessment on the .93 stone though, you can refer to the 'cut score' from the StoneAlGo site @DejaWiz posted previously and replace the GIA numbers with other stones you want to see (they explain their methodology in coming up with the score too):

Price and quality scores for GIA Number 2408267306

View the fair price estimate, Cut Score® and price history for GIA Certified Diamond 2408267306. Everything you need to know to buy this diamond.

www.stonealgo.com

You mentioned that 0.9ct is smaller than what you would prefer, if you were to to accept the size of 0.93 though, you might as well get the WF ACA I posted earlier as it is a better cut for the same price. Size will be visually the same. Also you have the option to upgrade down the track a lot more easily because of WF's generous policy.

For the 1.01ct G SI stone, the inclusions look light in color and so I don't think it would pose an issue. However, from a cut perspective, I actually prefer the H VS2 mentioned earlier. I prefer stones with smaller tables, especially for rings - so it is also a function of personal preference. If you don't feel comfortable with stones with visible inclusions in the magnified videos though, you might need to go up in clarity. Though that will probably mean compromising on size/color if you wish to maintain the budget. For example, here is a stone that looks well cut, clean in video but top end of budget and it is 0.91ct:

0.91 Carat round diamond

This 0.91 carat round diamond F color vvs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[lelli25]

Awesome - that’s a lot of info there @Diamond_Enthusiast

With the .93 that's the one I saw in person and get corporate benefits with. I really liked that stone without knowing much about diamonds. There weren't any visual inclusions and coming with a Diavik origin cert is something which will hold lots of value to my partner! With the .93 I can exchange it with other diamonds but that store has a diamond selector who specifically likes the 58/59 tables and I haven't found any with 'brilliant brilliant' cuts.

For StoneAlgo the 0.93 got 8.4 , the 1's got 9.4 and 9.6.

I'm not sure with the inclusions if they are slightly visible. I am from Aus and I have read they generally charge the 10% and 5%. The returns policy still would mean I'm down that component which is the thing I want to avoid - just would like to pick the right one to start with.

Will have a good look into the 1.01 H VS2

 

[lelli25]

1.01 H VS2


0.93 pt F VS2

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

With the .93 that's the one I saw in person and get corporate benefits with. I really liked that stone without knowing much about diamonds. There weren't any visual inclusions and coming with a Diavik origin cert is something which will hold lots of value to my partner! With the .93 I can exchange it with other diamonds but that store has a diamond selector who specifically likes the 58/59 tables and I haven't found any with 'brilliant brilliant' cuts.

If you actually saw the .93 in person and really like it, then that is a different story. I thought you only saw it online initially. Do make sure you look at stones in different lighting to see how it performs in different lighting environments not just store lighting (which is generally favorable for all diamonds anyway).

As for those 58/59 table stones, I would loosely classify them as likely to be the 60/60 style stones. This style tends to favor brightness/white light more. I personally and I believe PS members from what I've seen generally like smaller tables and more fire (rainbow flashes). No right or wrong, just different diamond personality. Here is an old thread and a page about 60/60 diamonds that might be of interest:

Strictly super ideal numbers vs 60/60...

Hi, gang. My understanding of what constitutes a 60/60 diamond might be fuzzy, so I wanted to get some opinions on a set of numbers and ask if these would be considered traditional super ideal numbers or do they veer more toward 60/60 numbers? Or are all RBC stones that are graded as AGS 000...

www.pricescope.com

Diamond Cut: 60/60

Some older members of the diamond industry share a strange fallacy that if a diamond has proportions of 60% depth and 60% table, then it will be beautiful. It’s a […]

www.pricescope.com

I am from Aus and I have read they generally charge the 10% and 5%.

Here is a page from WF talking about AUSFTA:

The Australia-United States Free Trade Agreement | Whiteflash

Information and Links regarding preferential treatment of Australian customs for jewelry products from the United States.

www.whiteflash.com

FYI - I'm from Aus and have only been charged 10% GST on loose diamonds and 5% duty (it might be charged if you get the ring made overseas). If the AUSFTA paperwork has been provided for a US made ring, you don't pay the 5% duty even on jewelry. I recently bought a pendant with Brian Gavin Diamonds from the US, BGD completed AUSFTA paperwork which they sent with the invoice when informing me of the Fedex tracking details. I passed on to Fedex with invoice on Fedex's request by email. No duty was charged, only 10% GST paid plus the $88 Customs Electronic Entry fee, total paid by credit card using Fedex's link.

 

[DejaWiz]

Beautifully informative post, Diamond_Enthusiast!

 

[lelli25]

Thank you all for your help @Diamond_Enthusiast & @DejaWiz