Opinion- changing generic asscher to Octavia

[gregchang35]

I am thinking about changing/ upgrading my generic asscher to octavia solitaire....i need help with my thinking...

(sorry for the long post)

As some of you know i have recently (2 months) completed MY set as shown in the picture below. And i LOVE it....It is probably the forever set............well.............


I have been obsessed with the Octavia for about 2 years, literally a few months after i bought my asscher. Whilst on PS, I saw kenny's SO's Octavia and i went... YuMMO...Must have... but i couldnt bring myself to change it so soon after getting the asscher. Over the past 6 months a few other PSers got Octavias as well= cygnet, kenny himself, and the PSer with the e ring with the gallery that had emeralds and sapphire (relating to their home states to the newly engaged ppl- i forget the PSer.. and these SMTB folders got me thinking about the Octavia again.

Maybe it is the PS coming out- obsession with diamonds, that have now got me thinking that i should change/ trade/ consign the current asscher so that i can get the Octavia. I have seen videos on GOG site and am very interested....I was thinking that maybe when i next visit to USA(2015/2016/2017???????), i have to make a special trip to GOG to see these in person and then make that decision.

couple of questions:
1) would the octavia work with the current carre eternity? I dont want to make another eternity, as i love the carre.... (a silly idea came into my head= maybe i should get the octavia and then make an asscher eternity???? oh- then i have 2 different sets!!! but that would be ashame as the current set of asscher solitaire and carre eternity will most probably sit in a drawer.
2) would a 1 ct Octavia to replace the 1ct Asscher- i guess it will all depend on the measurements..current asscher is 5.52x5.36
3) Given the carre eternity are F/G colour, and i have an E colour asscher solitaire...which octavia colour would work? i know that the Octavia will be bright and therefore i maybe probably get away with an H???? i also guess that this will be purely dependant on me seeing it in person.
4) since i am in AUS, if and when i do make the decision to change the asscher to octavia, would it be the best to consign it to GOG? i can do loupetroup and diamond bistro, but then there is the issue of international postage
5) i get the sense of guilt of creating the perfect set that i have and now changing it. but my mind keeps going to the octavia.... ad then i look at my current set and i go - i love these too....ugh.

What to do?????

 

[ame]

You'd need to find an Octavia in the dimensions of your current asscher and my guess is that would be over a carat because these are taller stones. But..I think it's worth enabling this change.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The Octavia is beautiful and a great men's stone. What I really like is that it is one of THE most rare stones in the world, even more rare than my AVR! Plus they are among the best cut stones in the world as well! So my vote is go for it if you'd like one!!!
(and you know I don't enable randomly! )

 

[Tekate]

I recently bought a GOG AVC 1.33 carats.. I orginally came onto these board(s) because I retired and love diamonds and heck I learned so much.. (like most of my diamonds are 'crappy'

An Octavia asscher is on my bucket list of someday.. (lottery?) to me the burst, buzz, firecracker, sparkle, color and great vibes.. so I would consider changing it.. also, I think it's the best cut Asscher out there.. there is such a huge difference in the 'sparkle/bling/' of an Octavia, the first time I looked at Kenny's octavia I was mesmerized.. his pix(s) are gorgeous.. so I think if you want the best of the best of an Asscher the Octavia is it.

personally I think the stone would go well with your Carre.

You could ask David, or Stephanie at GOG about dimensions for an Octavia.

Best of luck, I've admired your rings for a while now..

I am thinking about changing/ upgrading my generic asscher to octavia solitaire....i need help with my thinking...

(sorry for the long post)

I have been obsessed with the Octavia for about 2 years, literally a few months after i bought my asscher. Whilst on PS, I saw kenny's SO's Octavia and i went... YuMMO...Must have... but i couldnt bring myself to change it so soon after getting the asscher. Over the past 6 months a few other PSers got Octavias as well= cygnet, kenny himself, and the PSer with the e ring with the gallery that had emeralds and sapphire (relating to their home states to the newly engaged ppl- i forget the PSer.. and these SMTB folders got me thinking about the Octavia again.

Maybe it is the PS coming out- obsession with diamonds, that have now got me thinking that i should change/ trade/ consign the current asscher so that i can get the Octavia. I have seen videos on GOG site and am very interested....I was thinking that maybe when i next visit to USA(2015/2016/2017???????), i have to make a special trip to GOG to see these in person and then make that decision.

What to do?????

 

[MarionC]

I think of Octavia & Asscher as two entirely separate kinds of diamonds. Sure, I would love to have an Octavia in the jewelry box, but I wouldn't want to give up my classic looking step cut for the more complicated-looking Octavia.
It's good that you have plenty of time to decide! There may even be another new cut by the time you visit GOG

 

[marymm]

I also understand an Octavia's performance is "busier" as compared to that of most generic asschers... I wonder if it might be helpful for you to obtain an OctaCZ in the 5.5mm size (google "winkcz" and the appropriate site should pop up, then search under LooseCZ for OctaCZ) so you can put it next to your existing set? While of course not an Octavia diamond, it is a very well-cut facsimile (based on the original design by the Octavia designer I believe) that may allow you to make reasonable estimations on how an Octavia might look with your carre band, and how an Octavia's performance may differ from your own asscher's.

 

[Karl_K]

You'd need to find an Octavia in the dimensions of your current asscher and my guess is that would be over a carat because these are taller stones. But..I think it's worth enabling this change.

Actually an Octavia has better spread per ct than the OP's current asscher because of the small table and no excess weight.
High depth does not always equal small spread compared to other step cuts.

 

[ame]

You'd need to find an Octavia in the dimensions of your current asscher and my guess is that would be over a carat because these are taller stones. But..I think it's worth enabling this change.

Actually an Octavia has better spread per ct than the OP's current asscher because of the small table and no excess weight.
High depth does not always equal small spread compared to other step cuts.

Ohhh Im glad you corrected that. Gooood to know for later....

 

[kenny]

Oh boy, long post alert; this topic is so up my alley.
As most of you know I was in the same situation as Greg, having an asscher I loved but then finding out about the Octavia.

Even worse, after buying the first Octavia ever sold (for my SO) I had to witness the dang thing out-perform my asscher daily for years before finally biting the bullet and getting my own Octavia.
I had to wait over a year for my old asscher to sell on commission, but that did get me top-dollar.

Let me quickly say there is nothing wrong or inferior about a well cut conventional/generic asscher.
It is a gorgeous, classic, and elegant look, and that hall of mirrors is captivating.
They have larger side facets than an Octavia so you get larger flashes of fire.
But because of Octavia's high crown, small table and precise optimum positioning of every facet it has more flashes of fire than even my generic which was touted as one of the best-cut generic asschers seen on PS.

Unfortunately, as with most diamonds, asschers are usually cut to retain as much weight as possible and there is no HCA to help weed out the poor performers.
There are countless PS threads demonstrating the difficulty of an asscher safari when hunting for good light performance.
That's where a branded cut like Royal Asscher or Octavia is a blessing.
The designers and cutters ensure excellent cut which results in the best light performance.
They cost more, but IMO are worth it!

I recognize good cut.
Before my generic asscher I had two top-cut rounds for years, a Solasfera and an ACA.
The Octavia rivals those two fireballs … which was previously unheard of in a step cut … and it even does a better job off-axis than the best rounds.

The 'busy' thing.
I get annoyed when people call the Solasfera round or the Octavia busy.
Busy sounds negative and it's an unfair description.
It's intolerant of diversity, where we should be encouraging people to shop around to develop their own personal preference.

Different is not bad, though unfortunately that's how we are programmed.
No cut was handed down from above.
Princess and Radiants are infinitely more 'busy' but many people love them.
Should they be discouraged because your preference is for 'less busy cuts'?

 

[kenny]

1) would the octavia work with the current carre eternity? I dont want to make another eternity, as i love the carre.... (a silly idea came into my head= maybe i should get the octavia and then make an asscher eternity???? oh- then i have 2 different sets!!! but that would be ashame as the current set of asscher solitaire and carre eternity will most probably sit in a drawer.

I have no clue.
What 'goes' with what is 100% personal.
Even if 90% agree, you may be in the other 10%.;

2) would a 1 ct Octavia to replace the 1ct Asscher- i guess it will all depend on the measurements..current asscher is 5.52x5.36

I assume you mean, can your current setting accommodate an Octavia.
You should ask whomever made the ring.
BTW, the odds of finding an Octavia with the same dimensions are nearly zero.
There are only 6 for sale now and AFAIK Goodoldgold is the only seller.
Only your jeweler can tell you if the next diamond is close enough for your setting.

The idea of getting an OctaCZ from may be good ( http://winkcz.com/store/#!/~/product/id=22037542 ), but I wonder if the light performance will be different.
Karl, can you answer that?

3) Given the carre eternity are F/G colour, and i have an E colour asscher solitaire...which octavia colour would work? i know that the Octavia will be bright and therefore i maybe probably get away with an H???? i also guess that this will be purely dependant on me seeing it in person.

I doubt you'd see a difference, but then you may be one of those super skilled at detecting color difference.
Even if you could detect it might not bother you.

4) since i am in AUS, if and when i do make the decision to change the asscher to octavia, would it be the best to consign it to GOG? i can do loupetroup and diamond bistro, but then there is the issue of international postage

Ask GOG if they will take it.
Even after their commission that may get you the best price compared to selling it yourself.
They accepted my asscher back, but they sold it to me so were familiar with the cut, and it had a GIA report.
I believe you did not buy yours from GOG; does it have a report from GIA or AGS?

5) i get the sense of guilt of creating the perfect set that i have and now changing it. but my mind keeps going to the octavia.... ad then i look at my current set and i go - i love these too....ugh.

Screw guilt!
Make your decision and don't look back.

 

[kenny]

Look into my Avatar.
You are getting sleepy.
Very sleepy.



Now, go to www.goodoldgold.com and click on diamond search, then on Octavia.
When you wake up you will not remember any of this.
When I count to zero you will wake up and your Octavia will be on it's way.

Five
Four
Three
Two
One

 

[Karl_K]

lol Kenny!

I cant talk much about the octacz.
I am going to try it this way and see what Ella thinks.
The CZ version is not exactly the same as the diamond because of the RI difference.
Sorta like the diamond is the cz version on steroids with even more fire.
That is generally the case of any cz optimized or not because of the RI difference.
It does give the general idea and is as good as possible for cz but it isn't diamond.

 

[kenny]

Thanks Karl.

Wink's site says you optimized the Octavia recipe for the different refractive index of CZ.
Doesn't that mean they will have identical light performance?
What am I missing?

Oh, also … IIRC you once wrote that, carat for carat, Octavias face up similarly to a well-cut generic asscher which also have 3 rows of crown facets and 3 rows of pavilion facets.
Still true?

I believe your above departure from this applies only to the specs that gregchang revealed about his asscher.

 

[Karl_K]

Thanks Karl.

Wink's site says you optimized the Octavia recipe for the different refractive index of CZ.
Doesn't that mean they will have identical light performance?
What am I missing? The RI difference means no matter how optimized cz will never be diamond but that does not mean it cant look kewl in its own right.

Oh, also … IIRC you once wrote that, carat for carat, Octavias face up similarly to a well-cut generic asscher which also have 3 rows of crown facets and 3 rows of pavilion facets.
Still true? Yes around the same or better spread than many well cut asschers regardless of facet structure in this case better than the one the OP has now.

I believe your above departure from this applies only to the specs that gregchang revealed about his asscher. Not sure what you mean Kenny.

 

[kenny]

Not sure what you mean Kenny.[/b]

[/quote]

I was referring to this quote of you, "Actually an Octavia has better spread per ct than the OP's current asscher because of the small table and no excess weight.".

So the take-away is, Octavias face up about the same as a well cut asscher.
Right?

 

[Karl_K]

Not sure what you mean Kenny.[/b]

I was referring to this quote of you, "Actually an Octavia has better spread per ct than the OP's current asscher because of the small table and no excess weight.".

So the take-away is, Octavias face up about the same as a well cut asscher.
Right?

Yes.

 

[gregchang35]

Thanx for posting guys!!! My daughter was up early so I am now on PS!! It is now 545am as I finish typing.

Kenny and Karl - thank you so much for your insights about the Octavia.

My asscher has a GIA report.
If I do get the Octavia, I would have to change the setting due to the high crown that the O has compared to the A. I doubt it will work with the current setting. I would seriously consider the same setting as Kenny's, as that 'split' tension setting to accommodate for the high crown says "it's the setting" for me.
I think I would need to remove the A and sell that separately.

Thanx marymm for the suggestion of the cz. I have just ordered it online. I will get it in a week. Will come back and post update for it. It is a way for me to assess the overall look of the O with the carre eternity. I can also assess the cut of the O against the A, like jimmiAnne pointed out. I also understand that there will be performance difference as Karl pointed out.

Thanx to enablers - Kenny, DS, tekate, ame.

 

[gregchang35]

They don't have stock at the moment. Try are between cutters.

 

[cygnet]

Hi Greg!!!!

I have a lot of words to say about this, but I'm at work right now so I won't be able to write out a long response to this until I get home. But I will come back!!

Take another look at my ring thread, btw... My setting has carres in it and I think the Octavia & carres combo is A++++.

 

[gregchang35]

Anyone good with Photoshop can help me envisage the O instead of the A next yo my eternity?

Maybe Kenny if u have your O solitaire ring pic to superimpose on my Asscher solitaire?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Greg...This is a no brainer...go for it!!!... ..If I were to buy a fancy cut the Octavia is the only one for me!...

The only problem is that I would need to buy a 2.75ct Octavia for it to look like a 2ct RB size...

 

[kenny]

Anyone good with Photoshop can help me envisage the O instead of the A next yo my eternity?

I'm not good with Photoshop, but I just installed Adobe Photoshop Elements.

 

[gregchang35]

Thanx Kenny!

Now, if u can entertain my perception on the height/depth of your ring: do u have a profile hand shot with the Octavia ring? I know it is going to be hard to do as I find it challenging when I do mine. I want to understand how "high" it sits above the hand?

 

[gregchang35]

Hi Greg!!!!

I have a lot of words to say about this, but I'm at work right now so I won't be able to write out a long response to this until I get home. But I will come back!!

Take another look at my ring thread, btw... My setting has carres in it and I think the Octavia & carres combo is A++++.

I am eager to learn from you, cygnet.

Greg...This is a no brainer...go for it!!!... ..If I were to buy a fancy cut the Octavia is the only one for me!...

The only problem is that I would need to buy a 2.75ct Octavia for it to look like a 2ct RB size...

Thanx DF. Fortunately for me, I think 1-1.2 is going to be about right to make it right for me.

 

[kenny]

Thanx Kenny!

Now, if u can entertain my perception on the height/depth of your ring: do u have a profile hand shot with the Octavia ring? I know it is going to be hard to do as I find it challenging when I do mine. I want to understand how "high" it sits above the hand?

Greg, here's the side view you requested.
For reference the ring size 8.5, Boonering Sidegrooves design, Octavia 1.5 ct, with dimensions 6.59 x 6.57 x 4.87 mm.

FWIW, I asked Bruce to make the culet as close to my skin as possible and this is how he made it.
I wish the culet was even closer to my skin.
I prefer a lower-profile ring, but overall I'm very happy with it.

 

[WinkHPD]

lol Kenny!

I cant talk much about the octacz.
I am going to try it this way and see what Ella thinks.
The CZ version is not exactly the same as the diamond because of the RI difference.
Sorta like the diamond is the cz version on steroids with even more fire.
That is generally the case of any cz optimized or not because of the RI difference.
It does give the general idea and is as good as possible for cz but it isn't diamond.

Karl,

In my conversations with Andrey he has always said to me that we are allowed to answer questions, which you are doing. We are also allowed to correct any misstatements of fact. I will add to what you said about the Octavia having incredible fire. I have never seen one over .85cts which is the size of one I was honored to build a ring for right after they came out and it had a LOT of fire for such a small stone.

I think the only advantage my OctaCZs have is that I can cut them monster big and if your diamond has more fire than a 9mm OctaCZ then it would be such a delightful and stunning thing to see! All you need now is Daddy Warbucks to come along and give you the unlimited budget to buy a monster piece of rough for the 9mm diamond version! That would be worthy of a documentary

Wink

 

[cygnet]

couple of questions:
1) would the octavia work with the current carre eternity? I dont want to make another eternity, as i love the carre.... (a silly idea came into my head= maybe i should get the octavia and then make an asscher eternity???? oh- then i have 2 different sets!!! but that would be ashame as the current set of asscher solitaire and carre eternity will most probably sit in a drawer.
2) would a 1 ct Octavia to replace the 1ct Asscher- i guess it will all depend on the measurements..current asscher is 5.52x5.36
3) Given the carre eternity are F/G colour, and i have an E colour asscher solitaire...which octavia colour would work? i know that the Octavia will be bright and therefore i maybe probably get away with an H???? i also guess that this will be purely dependant on me seeing it in person.
4) since i am in AUS, if and when i do make the decision to change the asscher to octavia, would it be the best to consign it to GOG? i can do loupetroup and diamond bistro, but then there is the issue of international postage
5) i get the sense of guilt of creating the perfect set that i have and now changing it. but my mind keeps going to the octavia.... ad then i look at my current set and i go - i love these too....ugh.

Okay Greg! I am home now and ready to give you my thoughts! First of all, I think your current set is awesome (and the only thing that could make it better IMO is an Octavia! )

1) I absolutely think an Octavia would look good with a carre eternity. In fact, that was one of my first ideas for a band to go with mine... My setting already features carres and I think they complement the Octavia beautifully. I think that Octavias are bold and dynamic, and don't need competition, but carres are quietly elegant and really add a lot to the look without distracting from the presence of an amazing O. The fact that they're also step cuts really helps bring the whole look together. I'll attach some new photos of my rings that show them off a little more clearly. Last week I tried on a few different wedding bands to go with my engagement ring and ended up falling hard for an emerald half eternity. I also tried on a carre eternity, but forgot to take pics because unfortunately the carres in that particular band were just so small that I wasn't thrilled with the look overall. I think larger ones would have been lovely, though! Going to attach pictures of the emerald band though because it still gives you a similar visual, plus you'll get to see more shots of Octavia in profile!




2) I guess this one's already been answered but yes, they face up about the same as well-cut generics.

3) If your carres are F/G, I think you'd have little to no problem with an H! Mine is a J and rarely looks like one. My sidestones are actually D/E. I asked for H/I, but I didn't get it. My guess is that Jeff Cooper just probably doesn't even supply lower colored side stones. My color perception is excellent and I can absolutely see the difference between the J and D/Es, but it's not obvious in most lighting environments. Since you already have F/G stones, I doubt any color difference you end up with will be as dramatic as mine.

4) You've already gotten good advice on this point, it seems.

5) Don't feel guilty. Your current set is wonderful, but you're clearly fixated on Octavias (and for good reason, they're incredible). It sounds like you've been wanting one for a long time now and that little nagging feeling probably isn't going to go away until you have one. Honestly, it's an absolute delight to wear one every day and I feel special and fortunate to have one. They're rare and beautiful and I've never seen a diamond that outperforms mine-- and mine's just 6mm! By now I've tried on a lot of fancy diamond jewelry, but I am always happy to come back to my Octavia. Not really for the sentimental reasons or anything like that, but more just because it's flat-out prettier. They're special and you're special and you deserve one.

 

[gregchang35]

Cygnet

thank you for your input... i agree that the carre cuts are just amazing. they do give a certain amount of bling without it being over stated. And i think the Octavia is just divine! Thanx for posting the pic of your O with that eternity. Do you have a profile shot of both of them? I just want to get an appreciation of the height difference as the O has a higher crown than the A. If i were to go with the O, the height of the entire stone is approx 4.3mm; including the setting maybe 4.5mm. Currently, my A is 3.77mm but with the setting about 4mm. The carre eternity is 2mm high. So the A sits about 2mm higher. Aesthetically, they look amazing together- the height, colour, width etc. i am posting a pic for reference. It is THE FOREVER SET... Given that they are sitting beautifully together for me, i just want to make sure that the O and the carre will sit together nicely, especially with the height difference. The number say that the O solitaire will be another 0.5mm higher. if you have a profile shot of the eternity with the O that would be great. it is damn hard to take a photo with your non dominant hand! this is the best that i can do for my profile shot.


BTW- i do like the bezelled half eternity with emerald cuts set in the EW direction that you have there (woofmama has one but i think she has longer emerald cuts in an EW direction) it goes really well with the set. potentially completing the set...

You enable really well!!! Thanx!

 

[gregchang35]

Kenny,

Thank you so much for that photo... it helps put things into perspective. Can i ask another couple of favours of you, pls????
if not that is ok. (Sorry for wordy long post)

I am pretty sure that if i were to get the O (it is only a matter of time, really), i am certain to have it set like yours. Do you mind if i copy that? i just want to make sure that you are Ok with it...O'wise i will have it set in a similar tension setting that i have currently.

The next favour is 2 fold and the explanation to follow i) - can you pls take a profile photo of the entire ring itself, ie not on your hand? i want to get an understanding of the entire size/ shape of the ring so i can do the next bit
ii)- do you think you can draw/ adobe paint a 2mm ring around it to mimic my eternity height? if not i will print your profile shot of your ring not on your hand and draw out that 2mm ring.

Reason for the request:
Being the ring design that it is, it will be elliptical in shape. As explained in a previous post reply to cygnet's post, i am trying to determine how much tolerance i can have with the height of the octavia in your setting, sitting next to my carre eternity which has a height of 2mm. In the photo that i have posted, the height discrepancy is at the top end of the ring- where the diamond sits, is at most 1mm depending on how i have my fingers- in a clenched position or open position. That discrepancy is tolerable and aesthetically, it looks right! There is also a little height discrepancy between the 2 rings which is to be expected as one is elliptical and the other is circular. it occurs around the 2 oclock to the 10 oclock position of the solitaire. the discrepancy is about <.05. That is hardly noticeable during day to day wear.

From your pic and dimension of your O, i would hazard a guess that the setting height is about 5mm. The O that i am thinking will not be as large as that- including the setting it may be about 4.5mm; the eternity is 2mm. So, i am trying to picture this discrepancy of 2.5mm. I can only do it on paper and since you have the design that i am going to us, i am hoping that you can help with the picture.

I am hoping that it makes sense...

 

[kenny]

Greg, I can take a full profile pic, but tomorrow.
It's bedtime now.

Night night.