OMB--Feedback?

[diamondringlover]

I seldom post in threads like this because well I am not a diamond expert at all...but my thoughts on this is you want it, you love it, you can afford it...go for it I think sometimes you just need to go for the gold and do what makes you happy. You will have the diamond for many years and every time you look at it you will feel a little happiness

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am as cheap as you can get and I think that if you love this rock, then in might be worth paying a little more that the internet market value warrants.

My thinking is this:

The new stone is really lovely based on the photo, much more appealing that your present diamond from a cut perspective (sorry!). So although you are paying a little more I do think you are getting an upgrade in cut quality, which, although not reflected in the price of cushions the way it is in RBs, is still valuable in a subjective sense.

Also, the money you paid originally is gone -- the only way you get even one cent of it back is on a trade, and I am willing to bet that any trade you do with your jeweler will be similarly slanted to put some extra in his pocket. Some jewelers will do this -- give you full trade in value but charge more for the new stone than they would on a cash sale. So the value of your diamond is *only* in keeping it or trading it with this dealer. On the free market you would not get even a small fraction of that amount.

In the end, what you are really deciding is if this diamond is worth $3k to you right now, because that is all that is coming out of your pocket. And if the total amount sunk into the diamond is more than its retail value currently, well then think of it as the depreciation of your current stone on the secondary market, or think of it as a rental fee for the enjoyment the rock gave you over the last 4 years. The fact is, upgrade policies take some of the sting out, but consumers always lose money when they upgrade in some way -- the setting, the type of deal you are talking about, getting 2007 value in 2011... etc. But diamonds are not blue chip stocks. It is art and enjoyment. If you liked new cars you would fare even worse as you "upgrade" over the years. So I think you have to think about value a little differently than you would for many other expensive items.

If you feel sure that the new stone is worth $3k, and you are sure you will love it, then get a liberal return policy and send it to a PS expert appraiser to tell you if the cut is good and the stone is safe for peace of mind. Then enjoy!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Nice post, Dreamer!

 

[Haven]

The tides of opinion are turning . . .

I have to admit that I was in a funky, unhappy rut for a bit thinking that this deal wasn't going to go through. I'm not a particularly rational being when it comes to things I find beautiful, and I couldn't grapple with this issue that the new stone is worth more *to me* and that should count for something, darnit!

BUT, when I first posted all the pricing details in this thread I was almost positive that we weren't going to go for it because it seems like a sour deal when it's all laid out in black and white terms.

Now, here I am, planning to go visit the stone tomorrow and see if she still sings to me.

Dreamer--You make some really good points. Your point about any future dealings being on a similar slant is really important. After all--if I pass on this stone, that doesn't mean some other antique cushion that I adore is going to come our way in the future and then our jeweler will suddenly want to give it to us for a price comparable to what's out on the Internet. That was a real doh! moment for me, reading that bit. And I will admit, it made me very happy, which tells me that I really, really want this stone.

I like the comparison you make to cars, that made a lot of sense to me. I'll happily drive my little Civic for as long as it will go, but man am I aching for this new stone!

diamondrnglover-- You have a great attitude towards life!

LA Love--Really good points, both of them. I feel like your insight, and Dreamer's, has given me a rational way to look at the *opposite* side of this issue, the buying side.

Thing2--It is bigger, and I love that part, too! I was a horrible homebuyer, as well. I walked in, fell in love, and told DH to memorize the address because it was his future home. Poor guy.

LGK--God I love your tattoo. The Children's Book is on my lending library shelf in my office and I think of you every time I see the cover! You make really good points that make me feel better about my inability to just let this stone go. Interesting about antique stones look whiter than they rate, I was really surprised that this stone came back an O/P, but then again I know very little.

I'm feeling better about the situation after reading everyone's posts, so thank you. I really adore our jeweler and I think he's wonderful, and a part of this whole thing made me feel a bit that he wasn't willing to negotiate after the specs came in so off. But I really think that he priced the stone just from looking at it and gauging what he can get for it in his market, and I have to respect that. DH and I are going to go in tomorrow and look at the stone again. I think seeing it will help me figure out if I really think it's worth it, and I'm sure you can tell that I'm now really wanting to just go for it.

This stone is so beautiful. Thank you so much for your insight, advice, and ideas, everyone. Feel free to keep 'em coming!

ETA: Gah! I can't visit the stone tomorrow, she's still at GIA. I'll visit her as soon as she's back.

 

[HeartingDiamonds]

Hi there Haven,

I get why you feel the way you do - its rational to expect a renegotiation in asking price because the stone, after all, is not what it was originally thought!

However, you also need to factor in this stone's make in this equation. Even with a not-so-great photo, the stone appears white, bright, and has that gorgeous and oh-so-desirable shape. I think that perhaps you were only considering the color in the price?
People do pay a PREMIUM for ideal cuts, H&A, branded cuts etc, every day.

The fact that having the stone certed and coming back as something else HAS NOT changed it in any way. It looks just as lovely to you, does it not? And, just like LGK stated, antique stones are the greatest fakers out there (in a good way, of course ) - I have seen Q/Rs face up like Ks, Js face up like Gs, Ms face up like.. well, you get my drift.

Im a little surprised that your jeweler's rationale for the current asking price is because he paid strongly for it - no dealer would pay for anything based on an old appraisal. However, that is neither here nor there - we are not here to discuss his buying policy, after all .

You are happy with him, get great service from him, you are getting the full value of your initial investment back AND getting a stone you ADORE - surely some would argue that this has some value?

ps: Did I mention that I think the stone's adorable? You, my friend, have been charmed!

 

[Haven]

Grace--Thank you so much for your post. I really value your insight, and I'm so grateful that you took the time to post in this thread.

You are absolutely correct--the certification does not change the diamond, and it did not change the way I feel about this diamond. Not one bit. Upon seeing the stats my first thought was "Strange! I never would have guessed," and my second thought was "Oh, no. How am I going to get DH to understand that the stone is still worth it?"

But then I dug around and thought "Oh, boy. I need some PS advice" because I was frankly very confused. I really trust my jeweler, and so I didn't really know *what* to think when I saw the generally lower prices out there for other similar stones. I'm also extremely cheap, and I have a difficult time parting with money, so I need to convince myself that larger purchases are worth it before I feel good about moving forward.

You make some really keen observations, and you are absolutely correct--I do adore this stone. I've been thinking about it since I saw it, and I've even had one nightmare about it since it was shipped off to GIA. (In the nightmare it came back recut into an elongated step cut--not a bad thing, necessarily, but not that beautiful cushion I fell in love with.)

I think I misrepresented my jeweler's perspective a bit--he bought the stone because he loves it, and he thinks this particular stone is akin to a piece of art. I know this sounds like sales manipulation at work, but it's not--he's had many other cushions over the years that he hasn't described as art to me. He really does have a passion for stones, and he's so kind to include me in some of his more exciting projects by inviting me in to see them while knowing I was not in the market to buy. I do not think he is trying to take advantage of us in any way, but I do want to be prudent and get advice from PS all the same.

Thanks again, Grace, for taking the time to share your insight. I really appreciate it.

 

[dani13]

Hi Haven,

I'm not an expert by any means, but I just wanted to chime in here. I think that if this stone makes you soooo sooo happy, and if you can do it $$-wise, then I would go for it!!! Life is too short, girlie!!! I know you wont regret your decision!!

 

[missy]

Haven, I think the new diamond is just gorgeous and worth the extra 3K honestly. I agree with you that it is nice to have a local jeweler to work with and one who knows your preferences so well. Plus, if you look at it from the perspective that you are actually only spending 3K in cash for that beautiful stone it does seem like a good deal. I wasn't as smart when we bought my stone from our local jeweler (before PS and no upgrade policy) so that money is basically gone. I wish I had the opportunity to trade it in for what we paid and upgrade. Good luck!

 

[february2003bride]

Haven, isn't there a saying "you can't put a price on happiness?" I think that would apply to this diamond. You can afford it, you love it, you WANT it. I think you should go for it.

 

[stargurl78]

Hi Haven,

I'm not an expert by any means, but I just wanted to chime in here. I think that if this stone makes you soooo sooo happy, and if you can do it $$-wise, then I would go for it!!! Life is too short, girlie!!! I know you wont regret your decision!!

I agree with this post 100%. Go for it!

 

[HeartingDiamonds]

Oh Haven, you are sweet, and certainly most welcome! I'm happy to have had the opportunity to chime in.

Thanks for the clarification in regards your jeweler - that helps. We (and I know a lot of dealers who do the same thing) often buy "strongly" for certain pieces that we love. We realize that our profit margin is effectively being flushed down the toilet but if a piece has that "tug," then you just have to close your eyes and make the leap (and I say this both as a businesswoman and a plainclothes jewelry lover).

In my book, its already a HUGE plus that you are getting 100% of your initial investment back. You could consider the $3k a premium for the stone's make and the great service you are getting from your jeweler. The way you feel about it and how much you love it is unquantifiable - cant put a price on that (darn, I hate it when I sound like a Hallmark greeting card).

If, after a 2nd visit, you love her just the same or more, I say bring her home (dunno, she looks like a girl diamond to me)!

 

[Haven]

So much wonderful advice and feedback, thank you everyone! I will be back later when I have more time.

 

[february2003bride]

bumpity bump- any updates?

 

[rosetta]

haven, it looks like you're going for this stone. i fully appreciate why, it's gorgeous. and your jeweller knows it.

i must admit, if i were you, i wouldn't.

it just grates on me too much, having to pay the same amount on an O-P SI1 stone, that i would have to pay for what i originally thought was a J/VS1 stone. i think that stone is several thousand $ overpriced.

i was in a similar position to you once, i walked away from a STUNNING stone thought to be H/I and turned out to be J/K. The jeweller even offered to lower the price for me, but not enough for my liking. i knew there were other stones out there, and there certainly were.

i don't regret my decision, as part of my delight in owning a luxury item is knowing i paid a fair price for it, and not over the odds.

looking forward to seeing what you decide!

 

[Haven]

No updates, yet. I'm still waiting to go back in and see her again. She should be back from GIA this week, I'm assuming.

Rosetta--I was JUST going through your old posts looking for a thread about the beautiful three-stone ring in your avatar. I love the swooping lines of the prongs and just had to see more. Does it have its own thread? It should! What a beautiful ring.

I appreciate your feedback. A part of me feels exactly as you do, and another part of me feels like I love it too much to pass up the opportunity. I do believe that my jeweler priced the stone at what he knew he could get for it, regardless of the stats. I understand that, too.

I'm going to go in when she comes back and look at her again, and to be honest--if I still love her as much as I did the first time I saw her, I'm going for it. I'm looking at it as paying for a premium cut, as Grace said, and maybe even a bit of premium service that I do love getting while working with my jeweler.

We will see. I cannot wait to see her again, to be honest. It's been a bit of a roller coaster--he called me about the stone, I was skeptical, then I saw her and fell in love, then the specs came back so off from what we expected, and that's where this thread came in. If I'm totally honest, I'm pretty sure I'm going to love her all the same and we're going to move forward with the deal. THEN, I'm going to need a lot of help setting this baby!

I do appreciate everyone's honest feedback. I was 99% certain that everyone would advise me to pass on the stone after I posted the details, so I'm really grateful that so many people came in and gave me their honest advice.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. It's difficult to explain how something sings to your heart and frankly, you owe no one an explanation on that.

I have bought and traded several stones through the years. A couple of trades back, I had a stone for about ten years. I had been dealing with the same jeweler for years as well. I found another stone that he had that I wanted. I knew my then current stone had greatly appreciated throughout that ten year period. His policy was 100% buyback but no appreciation. I just knew that he was going to make a ton on that first stone on resell AND make money on the stone I was buying. I came up with a figure that I thought was somewhat fair to me and still hugely fair to him. Even though I wanted the new stone, I felt that I could continue to be happy with the one I had - after all, I had been happy with it for ten years! I presented my argument and was ready to walk. It was turned down and I did walk. Hubby and I went across the street for breakfast and the jeweler was going to check some figures. I told him we would be in the area for about an hour and that if he found he could negotiate a bit to call my cell. He did call - and we went back. I in no way got appreciation in the amount of the increase but I got something. He said he had valued my return business. I felt we both gave a bit and were both winners - some is better than none! A year later, I went back and bought my current stone - no haggles on my part because it hadn't been long enough to make any real appreciation. He again appreciated my return business and I appreciated feeling that I had gotten a fair shake from him. It made a huge difference to me even though I liked and respected him immensely. However, business is business - for him and for me.

For me, diamonds have been emotional purchases. I love them so and have a hard time separating my heart from my head. I also fall prone to thinking that another deal or another chance may never come along. My husband kept saying 'don't let him know how badly you want that stone and be prepared to walk if the deal doesn't make you feel good'. For once in my jewelry purchases, I felt that I had control in the situation instead of being a heart beating bowl of jelly!

The point of all this rambling is this: I love the shape of the new stone as well as the faceting. I'm a little hung on the color difference and think that should somehow be accounted for to you. If it were one color grade, OK. There is quite a bit of difference. I seriously doubt that he bought it on a J color basis. I don't know what his thoughts are on being able to move your current stone and that might be where HE gets hung up on price. If he credits you 12k and has to hang onto the stone for several months, his profit margin gets eaten away. The stones are two different animals as well - different 'shape' and faceting pattern so we're not really comparing apples to apples. That might account for some of the pricing difference as well. I would certainly want a no questions asked return window that would allow you to find an appraiser and to live with the stone in different environments as well to make absolute certain that you're sure of the color. Diamonds are such changelings - particularly when it comes to color! I just wanted to share my experience with you in hopes that it would give you food for thought IF you wanted to pursue negotiating with your jeweler a bit more. I had never done that in my life and frankly, I hope I'll never be in the position again where I think it's necessary. Considering my set of facts, it just seemed very important to me to get back something over my original purchase price that one time. In a hundred other scenarios, it would probably be denied and rightfully so - there was no policy that supported my request. 100% buy back seems to be a generous policy in and of itself today from all that I have read.

Lastly, if all reason escapes you and you get the stone and give him 3k, enjoy it! You've walked away and thought about it. You've sought the advice of others. Sometimes our wants just trump all else and that's OK too. I think we're only charged with trying to make good, informed decisions. You've done that and if you just can't walk away from it, bring it home and take tons of pics for us!!

Good luck - in the grand scheme of life these aren't such critical things. In the grand scheme of the moment, they're all we can think about!

 

[brellymom]

I agree with those who say "go for it" - as long as you can afford it. BUT I would get the full story behind the stone - that's part of what would make me feel better about the premium - to be able to talk about it only having been in two families its whole life, who wore it, etc - hopefully the jeweler can share that or find it out for you. That would be cool! I also like using my local jeweler, and frankly, that's worth a bit of a premium to me as well. Let us know what you decide - it is an absolutely lovely stone!

 

[packrat]

If I had the money, I would do it too, just based off that picture on the first page. Can't wait to see the setting idea thread-it will be so fun!

 

[Miscka]

Haven, for what its worth, I hope you go for it!!! I have a low-color OEC that I bought from the lovely JbEG as my ering, and I have never ever once regretted the color. In fact, I love it more for it and I agree with LGK and Grace when they say that old stones face up great for low colors and that there is a definite uncertable "desirability" factor in cut.

Keep us posted!

 

[rosetta]

No updates, yet. I'm still waiting to go back in and see her again. She should be back from GIA this week, I'm assuming.

Rosetta--I was JUST going through your old posts looking for a thread about the beautiful three-stone ring in your avatar. I love the swooping lines of the prongs and just had to see more. Does it have its own thread? It should! What a beautiful ring.

I appreciate your feedback. A part of me feels exactly as you do, and another part of me feels like I love it too much to pass up the opportunity. I do believe that my jeweler priced the stone at what he knew he could get for it, regardless of the stats. I understand that, too.

I'm going to go in when she comes back and look at her again, and to be honest--if I still love her as much as I did the first time I saw her, I'm going for it. I'm looking at it as paying for a premium cut, as Grace said, and maybe even a bit of premium service that I do love getting while working with my jeweler.

We will see. I cannot wait to see her again, to be honest. It's been a bit of a roller coaster--he called me about the stone, I was skeptical, then I saw her and fell in love, then the specs came back so off from what we expected, and that's where this thread came in. If I'm totally honest, I'm pretty sure I'm going to love her all the same and we're going to move forward with the deal. THEN, I'm going to need a lot of help setting this baby!

I do appreciate everyone's honest feedback. I was 99% certain that everyone would advise me to pass on the stone after I posted the details, so I'm really grateful that so many people came in and gave me their honest advice.

sorry haven, i don't have a thread on my 3 stone (my bad) thank you for your kind compliments.

but here is a vendor photo of the side view.

i really recommend unplated white gold for warm stones, it really suits it (mine is a J)

 

[MissGotRocks]

Not to threadjack Rosetta but could you take some pictures of your ring and start another thread in SMTB? We'd love to see some up close pictures of your ring!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Haven, I have wasted money changing my mind about diamonds and jewelry over time, so it's not the worst thing to pay a premium for something you really love.

BUT, I would STILL go in there by yourself, look at it and if you REALLY want it, tell him you really love it but your husband just can't deal with the price not being negotiated since the color came back significantly lower than stated before. Thank him and walk out. I'd be willing to bet money that he will call you back. Selling to you is an easy, immediate sale. He doesn't know how long it will take to sell it at his current asking price. Whatever you do, don't just go in without trying to negotiate the price. I've done this on buying cars and ALWAYS have negotiated down the price well beyond the first couple of offers on their side.

 

[LGK]

Haven, I have wasted money changing my mind about diamonds and jewelry over time, so it's not the worst thing to pay a premium for something you really love.

BUT, I would STILL go in there by yourself, look at it and if you REALLY want it, tell him you really love it but your husband just can't deal with the price not being negotiated since the color came back significantly lower than stated before. Thank him and walk out. I'd be willing to bet money that he will call you back. Selling to you is an easy, immediate sale. He doesn't know how long it will take to sell it at his current asking price. Whatever you do, don't just go in without trying to negotiate the price. I've done this on buying cars and ALWAYS have negotiated down the price well beyond the first couple of offers on their side.

Ditto. It is worth trying; worst he can say is no. I don't think that the price is unreasonable considering how much you love the stone... antique cuts certainly do vary a LOT in look, and if you find one that speaks to you, that is worth paying for IMO! (Thanks for the kind words about my ink BTW , I really need to get it touched up- I tanned over it last summer and some of the gold is harder to see now!)

 

[Haven]

Great advice, DS, I will definitely do that.
My husband is also pretty adamant that there should be some negotiation, and he'll come in with me, too. He's better at that sort of thing than I am, anyway.

I haven't yet decided if I want to trade in my entire e-ring, or just the stone. The plus of the entire e-ring is that our jeweler will also give us a credit for what we paid for the setting, which is nice. I know some will only give a partial credit to account for labor. I don't think I need a second eternity band, which is what my e-ring setting would become if I kept it, but it's something to think about. I'd actually rather trade it in and get another band to wear with my new solitaire.

Now I'm just so anxious to see the stone again!

 

[Haven]

Rosetta--Your three stone beauty really deserves a thread of her own! PLEASE! Pretty please?

 

[surfingartist]

I can't wait to hear what you decide after reading the whole thread! Please keep us posted as to your decision

(I too am getting a cushion in 2 days!!!)

Haven, if I understand you correctly, the $3000 plus your diamond was the deal when everyone thought the antique stone was J VS, right? Well they cannot possibly think you would pay $3000 extra once they see the cert says O-P color???? I feel like with the price your old stone would bring now, they'd still be getting the better deal with an even trade from a financial standpoint. However, I understand the temptation to pay extra just because you love the new stone.

And I have to say, it is exactly the shape antique cushion that I love! So hold on to the hope you can get it, but they HAVE to come down on the price with the color and clarity going down every significantly.

(No vendors that I know of allow more than the original purchase price for trade-ins. There does come a point where it just isn't financially wise to trade in a stone that has been owned for years. In those cases, I think people should just reset the original stone and buy a new one if it's current value is worth far more than they originally paid.)

Oh my God- so are you saying that if I pay 2k today, that at best I will never get more than 2k back- ever? What if I sold it to someone else (and not my original vendor)? Please say it isn't so!!

I'm no expert on upgrade policies, but I do believe that is the case. I haven't heard about anything different in the threads.
I think the general idea is that it is difficult to ever recoup what you paid for your stone if you sell it privately or to another jewelry, but I could be wrong.
It's a good thing we buy diamonds because we love them, and not because we're looking for a good investment.

 

[Haven]

Surfingartist--I can't wait to see your cushion!

Everyone--Thank you so much for your insight and advice. I really appreciate all of it.

I wanted to come back and give everyone an update. The stone arrived back yesterday, so I went to see her as soon as I finished teaching.

She's still beautiful. Gorgeous. I love her.

DH came to the jeweler as well, and we spent a lot of time talking about the stone and the setting and the cost. We ended up settling on a total price including the handmade setting that we're really comfortable paying. Now I just have to wait for the setting to be made and finished, which is going to be difficult.

I drew up an idea for a setting and my jeweler is going to use it as a guide. The shank is going to be in rose gold, and the head will be in platinum. He's going to put single cuts in as the surprise stones. I really want the stone to be the centerpiece of the ring, so I'm excited about the ornate basket on a simple solitaire shank. I've never had a handmade ring before, so that is exciting, too.

I can't wait to see the finished product! It's a terrible drawing, but it's the best I could do.

 

[sillyberry]

OOOHHHH!!! I'm so excited for you!!!

 

[Fly Girl]

I wanted to come back and give everyone an update. The stone arrived back yesterday, so I went to see her as soon as I finished teaching.

She's still beautiful. Gorgeous. I love her.

We ended up settling on a total price including the handmade setting that we're really comfortable paying.

Excellent!! I've been following this thread and just wanted to drop in and say how exciting for you!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Very exciting!!! The ring design looks beautiful!