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Older GIA reports

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sna77

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 2, 2006
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Should it be a red flag if a GIA report is older?

If I were looking at 2 similar diamonds and one had a report from 2002, would that mean that its likely been passed over for a number of years for a reason? Any rules of thumb here?

Thanks!
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
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2,398
Hi sna77. That''s a great question! I wondered about that myself. I saw a diamond at at store in NYC that was to-die-for: 2.12 carats, E VS1, EX/EX, Ideal cut. But they wanted $58K for it. The cert was from Nov 02, and I think no one was buying the stone because of the ridiculous price, not because there was anything wrong with the stone. The store had additional proportion details for the stone, and it looked FABULOUS through the idealscope. It seemed to just be the price.

My guess is that the answer could go either way. A diamond may simply have been overpriced or it didn''t have the right exposure. The other thing to think about though is that the GIA certs have changed recently and now give a cut grade along with more proportion details. I know that when I was looking for a stone, I stayed away from the older GIA certs unless the vendor could tell me what the crown and pavilion angles were. Afterall, diamond pricing is so dependent on cut and no one wants to pay too much.

It''s a great question!
 

sna77

Brilliant_Rock
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Date: 11/27/2006 11:45:23 AM
Author: starryeyed
Hi sna77. That''s a great question! I wondered about that myself. I saw a diamond at at store in NYC that was to-die-for: 2.12 carats, E VS1, EX/EX, Ideal cut. But they wanted $58K for it. The cert was from Nov 02, and I think no one was buying the stone because of the ridiculous price, not because there was anything wrong with the stone. The store had additional proportion details for the stone, and it looked FABULOUS through the idealscope. It seemed to just be the price.

My guess is that the answer could go either way. A diamond may simply have been overpriced or it didn''t have the right exposure. The other thing to think about though is that the GIA certs have changed recently and now give a cut grade along with more proportion details. I know that when I was looking for a stone, I stayed away from the older GIA certs unless the vendor could tell me what the crown and pavilion angles were. Afterall, diamond pricing is so dependent on cut and no one wants to pay too much.

It''s a great question!
haa, glad i asked something wasn''t dumb for once!
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
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2,398
You''re funny! I DOUBT any of your questions are dumb! Is there a stone that you saw in particular with an older cert? If so, list what you know and maybe some of the experts will chime in.

Another possible scenario is that the diamond was pre-owned. I can see why you''d wonder, for sure.
 

knuman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
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41
I had the same dilemma - and in the end I went for the one with the newer GIA report (2006 compared to 2004). Apart from the cut grade it also had the diamond angles (in particular the crown and pavilion), which was pretty crucial in my opinion.

One thing you can always do is ask the vendor for the crown and pavilion angles if the certificate does not have it. You can use those numbers for the HCA. You can also take those numbers to GIA''s website and they have this free page where you can insert those figures and it will tell you how GIA would have graded the cut of that diamond. I didn''t find out about this service until after I chose the one with the newer report, and I''m glad I did - because even though the other diamond (with the 2004 report) was graded as an "Ideal Cut" on the vendor''s website, GIA would have only graded it "Very Good".

You should also ask if the diamond has been bought previously or been put into a ring before etc.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
it definitely is something to think about but not necessarily a red flag. especially if it''s something of a really nice nature or very expensive it''s possible a dealer held onto it as an investment stone and wanted to ride the ever escalating prices of the large and high clarity stones (like flawless and VVS)
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
It may be advisable to ask the seller about Garry''s trade up possibility. Our policy with trade-ups is to send the original diamond back to the lab once it''s unmounted for re-grading and a new document. Why? It''s nice to keep the report up-to-date, but there''s another important reason: If something happened to adversely influence the clarity grade while it was worn in the setting the original grading report is no longer accurate. Rare...rare...rare...but possible.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Aug 15, 2000
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14,683
Date: 11/28/2006 2:12:40 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
It may be advisable to ask the seller about Garry''s trade up possibility. Our policy with trade-ups is to send the original diamond back to the lab once it''s unmounted for re-grading and a new document. Why? It''s nice to keep the report up-to-date, but there''s another important reason: If something happened to adversely influence the clarity grade while it was worn in the setting the original grading report is no longer accurate. Rare...rare...rare...but possible.
not to mention the often improved grade on 10 or 15 year old stones John


Most of the older stones I know of that have been regraded came back better.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 11/28/2006 4:08:57 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 11/28/2006 2:12:40 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
It may be advisable to ask the seller about Garry''s trade up possibility. Our policy with trade-ups is to send the original diamond back to the lab once it''s unmounted for re-grading and a new document. Why? It''s nice to keep the report up-to-date, but there''s another important reason: If something happened to adversely influence the clarity grade while it was worn in the setting the original grading report is no longer accurate. Rare...rare...rare...but possible.
not to mention the often improved grade on 10 or 15 year old stones John


Most of the older stones I know of that have been regraded came back better.
I was going to mention that Gary but then i was afraid of someone jumping on me and accusing me of being dishonest or something :)
 

jaz464

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
2,022
Date: 11/28/2006 4:08:57 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 11/28/2006 2:12:40 AM
Author: JohnQuixote
It may be advisable to ask the seller about Garry''s trade up possibility. Our policy with trade-ups is to send the original diamond back to the lab once it''s unmounted for re-grading and a new document. Why? It''s nice to keep the report up-to-date, but there''s another important reason: If something happened to adversely influence the clarity grade while it was worn in the setting the original grading report is no longer accurate. Rare...rare...rare...but possible.
not to mention the often improved grade on 10 or 15 year old stones John


Most of the older stones I know of that have been regraded came back better.
Why is that? Has grading loosened up in the last 10-15 years? I just always thought grading has gotten more accurate through the years.
 
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