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Oh Girls :-(

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Once again thanks ladies, been really nice to read through even MORE replies!
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And Melissa, thanks for clearing that issue up, can see you meant no offense and I''m sorry for jumping on you like that!

Well we''ve had a talk tonight (SO and I) and I actually told him about this site and reading back at all the to-ing and fro-ing and he did look concerned about it. He still said it was money that was stopping him now but that he hadn''t been 100% ready in the past. I explained that I don''t need an expensive ring and am willing to help him out and that the way I''m feeling at the moment I don''t even know if I do want to marry him. Anyway we talked for ages and ages and it was really nice. He didn''t get annoyed and I told him that if he did I would be leaving the conversation and going out until he calmed don. Anyway I feel like we may have a mini break through!! I definitely feel happier! Have got to rush of as we are about to go out with his parents but will update you later!

Thanks girls!!
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Date: 4/3/2009 2:37:13 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
Once again thanks ladies, been really nice to read through even MORE replies!
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And Melissa, thanks for clearing that issue up, can see you meant no offense and I'm sorry for jumping on you like that!


Well we've had a talk tonight (SO and I) and I actually told him about this site and reading back at all the to-ing and fro-ing and he did look concerned about it. He still said it was money that was stopping him now but that he hadn't been 100% ready in the past. I explained that I don't need an expensive ring and am willing to help him out and that the way I'm feeling at the moment I don't even know if I do want to marry him. Anyway we talked for ages and ages and it was really nice. He didn't get annoyed and I told him that if he did I would be leaving the conversation and going out until he calmed don. Anyway I feel like we may have a mini break through!! I definitely feel happier! Have got to rush of as we are about to go out with his parents but will update you later!


Thanks girls!!
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CF I'm so glad you're feeling better, and that you seem to have taken back some control of your life. Doesn't it feel great to know that you won't let another person jerk you around??

I think bf will start acting a little differently once he knows that you will do what's best for you, and he doesn't have all the control in this relationship. Make sure he continues to treat you with the upmost respect!

Keep thinking about the bolded part, it will you a sense of control over your own life.
 
((((((((((((((((HUGS CF)))))))))))))))

You''ll figure it out eventually. Meanwhile, I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
 
Glad to hear that you had a talk with him. Keep us updated!
 
I am glad you hear that the two of you are a having a meaningful discussion too. As the others have said, please keep us updated.
 
I''m also happy you two had this talk, it sounds as though it went very well. Hopefully, no matter which turn this all takes, you will find happiness and peace! I wish you well.
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Wow. This thread takes me back. (Hi guys!)

Chocolatefudge, do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. It seems like you and your bf are in a good place right now, but....just be careful. I was in a very similar relationship with my ex-bf/fi for over 10 years (96-06.) I got very active on PS from 04-06 for similar reasons to yours: I'd been promised an engagement--also on New Year's, like you--in 04, in 05, by birthday deadlines, anniversary deadlines, etc. We finally DID get engaged after a couple of therapist-mandated trial separations...and then I broke it off for good barely a month or so later.

Our experiences are NOT the same, and it sounds like your bf's hold-up is different from that of my ex. But it wasn't until WE broke up that I (and he) were finally able to face that all of the excuses, emotional torture--which is what that kind of leading on/waiting in vain can be, and general delaying BS was not about anything other than him not being ready, not wanting to marry me (or anyone?), and ultimately not being the right person for me. It took me over ten years to figure that out, and another solid year and a half to get over it (as much as you get over things....they change you) but...that was my experience.

Like I said, I pray that your experience is NOT what mine was. It just turned out for me that all of my ex's waiting games were about a central truth that he wasn't honest about--either with me OR with himself: he wasn't ready. He would never be ready. He didn't want to marry me.



You two own a house together, and I have every reason to believe that he loves you and perhaps hasn't really realized the impact on you of his words, actions, delaying. It sounds like your last conversation was good...just keep up the communication, be good to each other, and be good to YOURSELF. Don't lose yourself here. It's really easy for that to happen while you wait for someone else. Remember what it is that you want from him, and from your relationship. If you find that there are more concessions than joys, then it's time to think. IT should never be more bad than good. Now that I have the benefit of hindsight, I know how genuinely BAD my relationship was, and I took 10 years to figure it out.



Just be honest with yourself. Make sure he's being honest with HIMself. And take care of yourselves and each other. Talking openly like you did is the right track.

Big hugs, and hang in there. My heart aches reading your story--I know that anguish SO WELL. Love shouldn't hurt your spirit like that. Be well. And eat some chocolate fudge--that always helps.
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Date: 4/3/2009 2:37:13 PM
Author: chocolatefudge

Well we''ve had a talk tonight (SO and I) and I actually told him about this site and reading back at all the to-ing and fro-ing and he did look concerned about it. He still said it was money that was stopping him now but that he hadn''t been 100% ready in the past. I explained that I don''t need an expensive ring and am willing to help him out and that the way I''m feeling at the moment I don''t even know if I do want to marry him. Anyway we talked for ages and ages and it was really nice. He didn''t get annoyed and I told him that if he did I would be leaving the conversation and going out until he calmed don. Anyway I feel like we may have a mini break through!! I definitely feel happier! Have got to rush of as we are about to go out with his parents but will update you later!

Thanks girls!!
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Mybe you should show him this thread, CF?
Just a suggestion btw, no responsibility taken!

But he really needs to know how incredibly difficult this ''joyride'' can be. I know it - intimately - and BlueRoses and a whole bunch of other women here. I feel bad for you. Don''t apologetically sweep it under that table for yet another few months,
(''just forget about it for now honey, I''m not sure how I feel!'')
just because he''s actually paying attention to you.

Above all, you must be honest with yourself. That''s by far the hardest bit.
 
Blueroses, thank you so much for sharing your story, it really does help to read about others who have been in a similiar situation.

Don''t know if I have done the right thing but I emailed my boyfriend Freke''s history of my time on PS!! Sent it to him yesterday but am not going to ask him about it. Am just hoping he will read it and take on board what is said. I checked his emails this morning when he had left to go and play fooball and he HAS opened the email but it was also in his trash! So he obvisouly deleted it, but I don''t know whether that was before or after reading.
 
Hey CF! I''ve been just reading this post from the sidelines and wondered how things were going...

I must say I''m a little saddened that your BF put the email in his trash bin. Whether it was before or after is irrelevant to me. I don''t know your BF and I don''t mean to sound critical, but it just seems a little pre-mature to have thrown it out without even discussing it with you first.

I mean, sheesh, he would at least appear more interested in your feelings had he kept it, perhaps called you to come and sit down and read it with him and then maybe, Idunno, DISCUSS???
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I mean, cmon, those were YOUR words, YOUR feelings, YOUR HEART, and he threw it in the trash? I''m so sorry to hear this. Please, whether you do it sooner or later, do ask him what his take was on the email and WHY he deleted it. I may be just getting carried away here, but one would think that a man who cared would have kept the email a little longer, and possibly re-read it with you, and asked you what was really going on in your heart to have compelled you to post these feelings on a public forum and furthermore forward them to him. I''m sure the point was to get his attention.

Like I said, it''s early yet. But if he continues to carry on as though everything is normal and all hunky-dory, then I''d say there is a SERIOUS blatant neglect of your feelings here.

PLEASE, Take care of yourself & your heart first and foremost. You will need that strength to move forward with your life, whether it be with him, or without.

Prayers for wisdom going out to you,

Smooches.
 
Hmm... I''ve only been lurking in this thread CF, but girl- I feel for you!

If he doesn''t bring up the email, well... I''ll really wonder about him! Here you are, in enough pain to pour your heart out to some (albeit nice) folks on the internet, and he is so not fussed about it that he deletes the email. It is just not right in a relationship that is supposed to be heading toward marriage. On the plus side, his response (or lack of) should give you a good idea how he truly feels about the situation. I do not think it is a bad thing for him to know how much he has hurt you by dragging his feet.
 
I have to agree with the other two girls-see does he bring it up first but if he doesn''t, I''d really wonder. It would annoy me that he put it in trash without actually discussing the email with you. Hopefully he''ll bring it up with you after football.
 
Please keep us posted as to what happens when he gets home. Right now, I am furious to read that he put it in the trash. I choked on my morning cereal. It''s a serious e-mail from you, his beloved -- I cannot imagine anyone putting an e-mail like that in the trash. It tells me that he considers your emotions "spam." Let''s see what happens, but I have to say, either way, I''m pretty shocked.
 
Ok, he came home from football and never mentioned it- but then, neither did I. I''d been out and bought plants this morning for the garden and had planted them but when my boyfriend got home he said there weren''t many so we went out and he bought me some more. And right now he''s currently digging up the ones I put in (because they weren''t great) and is now making me a decorative border, shaping all the lawn and making it look really nice. I think he was hoping to come in and relax but has not complained once about doing this work for me. I''m so happy with how it''s looking already and this is just one example of how he DOES treat me really well- it''s only ever marriage talk that seems to divide us!

Don''t know what to do about the email!! For all I know he did read it and then got rid of it, or maybe he didn''t read it at all and just deleted it when he realised what it was. I don''t know whether it''s embarassed him and so he got rid of it. I know he''s seen me coming on here before and has said, "Are you saying horrible things about me?"

Don''t want him to come in and us to get into a fight about the email and marriage AGAIN! Am going to give him a few more weeks following our talk yesterday (or was it the day before?) and see how things go. We talked about a couple of options for paying for the ring and he did seem visibly relieved at these so will see how things go.
 
CF, sending many hugs your way!!!

I am slightly concerned that he put the e-mail in the trash and has yet to say anything. Communication is so vital in any relationship and I wish he would have at least acknowledged the e-mail (not even gotten into a big talk about it, but just let you know he got and read it). I can see where you don''t want to bring it up and get into an argument (especially when he''s doing swet things for you) but just make sure you''re not going to bottle up your feelings and end up resentful towards him. I''ve done that in past relationships and I''ve learned that I''m the type of person who has to bring things up and get them out in the open or else things just get worse. If you''re content with not talking to him about it right now though, that''s your decision and I''m wishing you all the best. Just make sure that YOU are being heard and that YOUR needs are being met!

Much luck!
 
CF, please don''t sweep this under the rug. And for that matter, please don''t equate BF giving up an afternoon of relaxation with spending 5 years waiting in anguish for a commitment. That''s 1,850 days that you''ve spent being stressed over his lack of action, and all the other insensitive things he''s done.

By giving him a few weeks, you''re essentially letting it go, and if you do confront him about it then, he''ll probably say that he didn''t remember receiving it, and you''ll be upset again. I''d say give it a few DAYS, and then see what he says about it.
 
I have to say I completely agree with brooklyngirl. I didn''t think about the fact that in a few weeks he can very easily say he didn''t remember getting it. At some point, you really should let him know exactly how you feel and have a conversation about it. 1,850 days is a long time!
 
Date: 4/5/2009 2:25:30 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
CF, please don''t sweep this under the rug. And for that matter, please don''t equate BF giving up an afternoon of relaxation with spending 5 years waiting in anguish for a commitment. That''s 1,850 days that you''ve spent being stressed over his lack of action, and all the other insensitive things he''s done.


By giving him a few weeks, you''re essentially letting it go, and if you do confront him about it then, he''ll probably say that he didn''t remember receiving it, and you''ll be upset again. I''d say give it a few DAYS, and then see what he says about it.
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I agree with Brooklyngirl one afternoon of planting doesn''t make up for throwing out an email about your feelings and time line. I hope one of you brings this up and can talk about it since it''s obviously not going to just go away.
 
Date: 4/5/2009 2:25:30 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
CF, please don''t sweep this under the rug. And for that matter, please don''t equate BF giving up an afternoon of relaxation with spending 5 years waiting in anguish for a commitment. That''s 1,850 days that you''ve spent being stressed over his lack of action, and all the other insensitive things he''s done.


By giving him a few weeks, you''re essentially letting it go, and if you do confront him about it then, he''ll probably say that he didn''t remember receiving it, and you''ll be upset again. I''d say give it a few DAYS, and then see what he says about it.
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I agree with brooklyngirl. He at least deserves to acknowledge that he received the email. I would give him a few days to bring it up but I would definitely mention it to him otherwise. I know that you don''t want to bring up the marriage thing again and start another riff but with all the talks you two have had, you still don''t seem to be any closer or any the wiser as to what''s holding him up. I would just hate to see you leave it another few weeks and have another few weeks of not knowing.
 
Date: 4/5/2009 1:24:34 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
I''d been out and bought plants this morning for the garden and had planted them but when my boyfriend got home he said there weren''t many so we went out and he bought me some more. And right now he''s currently digging up the ones I put in (because they weren''t great) and is now making me a decorative border, shaping all the lawn and making it look really nice. I think he was hoping to come in and relax but has not complained once about doing this work for me. I''m so happy with how it''s looking already and this is just one example of how he DOES treat me really well.
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Call me Debbie Downer but there''s another way to interpret his behavior today that is anything but "treating you well".
* control freak -- his way or no way
* perfectionistic -- your selections & work aren''t up to snuff
* diminishes your achievements by un-doing & re-doing what you''ve done
* prefers to work alone, shutting you out of your own project

Just another way to look at the same scenario -- that isn''t about how much he loves you etc ... but about getting his own needs met with you the passive, if slightly undermined & criticized beneficiary.
 
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SO just got out of the shower and was makign me a dirnk so I called to him, "Did you get my email?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Did you read it?"
He said, "No."
I said, "Why?"
"Because I deleted it."
"Why?"
"I didn''t want to read it."
"Why?"
"Because I''ve been horrible, and I''ve realised I''ve done and said horrible things and I was too embarassed to read it."



So, what do you think?
 

Date: 4/5/2009 4:01:32 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
SO just got out of the shower and was makign me a dirnk so I called to him, ''Did you get my email?''
He said, ''Yes.''
I said, ''Did you read it?''
He said, ''No.''
I said, ''Why?''
''Because I deleted it.''
''Why?''
''I didn''t want to read it.''
''Why?''
''Because I''ve been horrible, and I''ve realised I''ve done and said horrible things and I was too embarassed to read it.''



So, what do you think?
Click to expand...

My personal reaction to this was to sigh with frustration. Was anything said after that by either of you? If he TRULY realizes that he''s said and done horrible things and is TRULY embarassed, what does he plan to do about it? In my opinion, he shouldn''t have deleted the email, even if he was embarrased because those were YOUR thoughts and feelings. It seems like an excuse to get out of discussing what has happened and what will happen in the future. Of course I may be wrong and hope I am, BUT I have to say that trashing someone''s email because you''re too embarrased to read it is disrespectful, as is not doing anything to apologize or fix the situation.

 
I think we''ve all been embarrassed at how we''ve treated others at some point, but it''s important to acknowledge and learn from the mistakes we make in our relationships or we''ll never grow. I think if he really wanted to make amends for his past behavior he would really face it and not just hit the delete button because it was too hard to read.
 
I''m still reeling over the fact that CF referred to that talk of a couple of days ago as a "mini breakthrough". A breakthrough is when a concrete plan has been made and decisions are formed. This relationship has deteriorated to the point where CF is so relieved that she can even "mention" the word marriage without the BF storming off as a mini breakthrough. That''s just sad.

I wonder if CF really sees how much she is modifying her behavior to make things "work" with the BF? It''s called walking on eggshells when you don''t act on what you really want to do (bring up subjects that are important to you, or talk about them) out of fear of how the other person will "react".
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All I read is how CF would do this, or say this, or act like this, but........................doesn''t, because she doesn''t want to pay for being true to herself with the negative reaction she knows will occur from this guy who is so sweet.
 
I think he needs to go back and read it. Face the facts dude. He did a lot of F-ed up stuff to you, our dear CF, and he need to come to terms with his actions. It''s called taking responsibility. None of which I''ve seen yet.

You can''t hold him down and make him read it, but yes these are your thoughts and feelings, and probably some of your darkest moments and he needs to witness them for himself. Without you having to tell him face to face and having you both get emotional and upset about it. He''s the cause of you feeling like this. Embarrassment is a good first step, but he needs to acknowledge that he''s acted like an @$$ and think about how to make it better. He needs to confront his actions. I wouldn''t let him go about his merry way until he does.

What do you want his reaction to be? Do you want him to grovel for your forgiveness? Propose on the spot? To tell you that he doesn''t deserve you?

Or just say, "I''ve done terrible terrible things to you. You have given up so much for me, and I''ve kept taking and taking and taking. I need to give back. I love you with all of my heart, and I want to spend the rest of our lives together. But I''ve done these things over years, and I would never expect for you to forgive me overnight, so I need to prove to you that I can be worthy of you. But if you don''t feel like you can forgive me, I will understand..." Because that might be a start...
 
Coming from FI''s mouth. "If a guy really wants to be with a woman, he will do anything that is within his power to marry her."

My heart breaks for you CF, because I so want you to be happy. I have no doubt that your BF treats you well other than this issue, and I have no doubt that he loves you. That still doesn''t change the fact that he does not want to get married.
 
Date: 4/5/2009 4:01:32 PM
Author: chocolatefudge
SO just got out of the shower and was makign me a dirnk so I called to him, ''Did you get my email?''

He said, ''Yes.''

I said, ''Did you read it?''

He said, ''No.''

I said, ''Why?''

''Because I deleted it.''

''Why?''

''I didn''t want to read it.''

''Why?

''Because I''ve been horrible, and I''ve realised I''ve done and said horrible things and I was too embarassed to read it.''




So, what do you think?
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1. I think he''s incredibly immature.
2. I think he values his own comfort over your feelings.
3. I think he''s taking the easy way out, unless he is willing to confront his behavior and how it affects you in some other way -- i.e., by allowing you to tell him about it without him getting defensive.
4. So... has he addressed what he will do to quit being horrible?
 
CF, this is ridiculous. It''s the most emotionally immature response I''ve ever heard of. I have also hurt people in the past, including FI, and I am not proud of some of the things I''ve said and done, but I''ve always owned up to them. If he can''t confront and own up to having hurt you, he''s not ready for a serious relationship, let alone marriage. He needs to read that e-mail multiple times, reflect on it, really get to the bottom of why he''s acted the way he''s acted, and then have a long, serious and totally honest conversation about it thereafter that lets you know once and for all where he stands on marriage and a timeline. But, and I am really sorry to say this, from his behavior today, I am not hopeful that he is capable of the amount of reflection and honesty needed to move you guys forward. An emotionally mature person for whom the relationship with you is a top priority would not act in the way your SO acted today. I know I sound really harsh, but I am just shell-shocked at his reaction to the e-mail after being in a relationship with you for 8 years.
 
CF, if you think your BF is great other than the marriage thing, then that is okay! If he says that he realizes that he has been horrible, he probably does. And it''s okay to give him a little time to process everything. I think you should figure out a time that you would both be comfortable talking about a timeline again, and let him know that it is the last time, ever, with him, that you will be willing to do so. Your heart cannot take another disappointment (or lie) and you don''t deserve it. If he is sincere about his intentions and is truly sorry, he will do what needs to be done. I know the calvary here on PS is already circling the wagons, but you have to do what is right for you, and forcing a lot of rough convos in a short amount of time rarely produces the desired results. So, relax, breath a little, and when you are both in a good place, go from there, and figure out when to have the convo to set a ''real'' timeline.


Good luck!
 
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