OEC - Old European Cut help!

[trednybr]

Hi Everyone,

I am new here! I have been reading so many of your posts and looking at your beautiful rings for so long now I am so excited I can finally be apart of this community! Okay so just yesterday my boyfriend (soon fiancé) took a look at a beautiful 100 year old old european cut round diamond. The diamond is 2.74 carats with a 9.5 diameter so it shows pretty big. It is an H+, VS1+. The reason for the + is that the diamond is not certified. The diamond is beautiful the only thing is that it is a bit chipped on the edge from the original setting that it was in. The price of the diamond is $24,000 but he will give it to us for $22,000. The jeweler told us right away that if we do not feel comfortable whatsoever with buying an uncertified diamond that he would send it over to GIA and have it certified for us. Do you guys think that this is necessary? Also, do you think the chip around the edge of the diamond will be an issue? Any input or thoughts on this situation or the diamond itself would be greatly appreciated as I don't know too much about old european cuts. I have attached the pictures that I do have from my iphone. The first one my bf is holding it.

Thanks guys!

 

[SB621]

Umm yes a cert is 100% necessary as the stats will set the price! Personally i'm not in love with paying 22k for a chipped diamond. have you checked with other antique diamonds vendors such as Jbeg and OWD to see what they have that is similar with pricing?

Do you have a better straight on shot of the diamond. I can't see the facet pattern very well from that shot.

 

[trednybr]

 

[trednybr]

There is the picture of it on my hand. But those are the only two shots I have. I will ask the jeweler to send me a better picture. He did say that if GIA gives it a better rating that he would not raise the price so I guess it doesn't hurt I am just impatient. :O

 

[SB621]

Yeah your picture just doesn't show anything unfortuantely. I would still shop around to see if you can get something better/bigger in your budget through other vendors just to price check your jeweler. You might also want to check to see how bad the chips are. Will they crack down further? Are you going to cover them with a setting? That is my #1 concern.

 

[trednybr]

The setting we would choose for this diamond is double prong so he said he can cover up the tiny chip. From looking on JBEG website under the link for "antique diamonds above 2.5ct" it seems like this diamond is priced pretty low? Something that also concerns me is the 9.5 diameter on a 2.74 ct diamond. Are OEC knows for a big spread? I really appreciate your help.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

What I think is that you should get the GIA cert first. It would help if an independent appraiser could look at it and tell you if the chip can be polished out. A lot of people have bought OEC's here and some have absolutely done girdle rehab for a small cost.

I will tell you that if that stone is really H VS1 without the chip and the chip can be polished out, that is a steal of a deal!!! You aren't going to find that high color and low price at vendors who sell these. I am seeing a 2.3 I VVS2 being sold for $31k! But you absolutely HAVE to have that color and clarity established and you at least need highly magnified excellent pictures of the chip to find out if the chip can be polished out. If the girdle is very thin, you'll want it polished a little to make the girdle a little less thin anyway if you don't want to set it in a bezel. Again, it could be an amazing deal so I would absolutely get more info! (It will be a good deal if that stone comes out as I or J color, too. But how great the deal is depends on an independent assessment.)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The setting we would choose for this diamond is double prong so he said he can cover up the tiny chip. From looking on JBEG website under the link for "antique diamonds above 2.5ct" it seems like this diamond is priced pretty low? Something that also concerns me is the 9.5 diameter on a 2.74 ct diamond. Are OEC knows for a big spread? I really appreciate your help.

Sure, there are some that are not cut deep and have a bigger spread. It also looks like the table is larger so it might even be a transitional. Do not set the stone again without having the girdle worked on or you are going to end up with more chips. Good Old Gold has OEC cutters who can polish out the chip and make the girdle less risky if it is advisable.

 

[trednybr]

I did ask him if he can get rid of the chip and he said that he could but he doesn't want to mess with the roundness of the diamond?

 

[SB621]

1- send the diamond in to get graded. If the stats come back close to what you stated great. Put a hold on it. Then contact GOG to see if they can polish out the chips. If they can send to them. I wouldn't have your local person do it. I would want someone who actually has experience polishing an OEC.

I'm not a fan of covering chips with prongs. You still hit your hand/ ring wrong and you can do further damage. If the chips can't be polished out I would take the diamond to an appraiser or other expert who could tell me if they could pose any future issues.

I would also call adam at OWD. I think he has better pricing and more inventory on OEC's then JbEG. If he can't come up with anything compariable then definitely keep persuing this one. I agree with DS that pricing is great but like I said those chips would bother me. I'm hard on my rings so I would be terrified I would hit my hand and take a chuck of diamond out.

 

[arkieb1]

Agreed get a certificate that will tell you exactly what it is - most jewellers tend to under estimate the colour in particular. The certificate and more pics will also tell you more about the stone and the actual cut of it. With that type of spread for the carat weight it should be more like a very very late OEC more likely a transitional which would explain the bigger table and being not as deep as an OEC. Otherwise its a very shallow OEC which is great for finger coverage but could be lacking in the fire department....

If it comes back with those specs (colour clarity and size wise) and if you can get them to take a decent photo of it to see if its not too badly cut it could be a great deal for that price.

 

[missymoo]

Absolutely get it sent to GIA. Chips are easily polished out by a number of reputable vendors. Worry about the stats and price first!

 

[JulieN]

Send to GIA. If a the chip is VS1+, I would think that it shouldn't make it out of round to polish it out.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Send it to GIA before doing anything else, since he offered.

But I am concerned about the cut. That spread at that weight suggests that the stone is overly shallow, which might make it look hazy and imprecise in the under table area, or other negative optical consequences. I can see some evidence of that in the third image you posted. See how the facets under the table look flat and indistinct?

Do you know the depth measurement?

 

[trednybr]

Sorry for the late response. The jeweler just got back from being away on vacation. We met with him yesterday to look at the diamond again. I asked him for EXACT measurements. The diameter is 9.4 and the depth is 5.1. The diamond has a small table. He said he will sent to GIA as a rush so it will cost $350 dollars to have back in 1-2 days. He said if we take the diamond he won't charge us for the GIA but if we don't, he will.

What do you guys think? I'm starting to get really nervous over this diamond. We even went to Tiffanys right after looking at this diamond and I started to feel like maybe I should get a smaller diamond from Tiffany where I know the quality is great. If we went that route I'd have to size down to a 1.8 carat. I have to say, we have looked at every jeweler, and every diamond store imaginable and I have yet to see a diamonds brilliance even compare to Tiffany's.

I am so torn I'm almost sick over it

 

[Slickk]

I am no expert for sure. But I just love the OEC. I love the cuts and if this comes back from GIA with satisfactory stats, and the price is right for you, I would go this route. Not to knock tiffany at all, but I think this is a more unique, romantic and sentimental ring than just walking into the brick and mortar store and buying one. Just my humble opinion. Again, I love the stone from what little I can see in photos. I'm not all about the numbers, if my eyes love it, then that's whats important (and you've seen it). Good luck. Keep us posted!

 

[Confection10]

Depth seems to be only about 54%. I think it affects so much to appearance that I won't choose it. Price seems to be quite high for that shallow stone. This is only my opinion.

 

[SB621]

If you want an old cut then why not look at Jbeg or OWD to see what they have.

Tiffany diamonds don't actually have a great cut typically. They do have excellent lighting in the store though.

Dont' get discouraged. Just keep looking.

 

[Acinom]

With the help of thd diamond experts here you will surely find a beautiful OEC. Don't get discouraged.

If you really love OEC's, the go for it! But I would follow the advice of the experts here.
I bought my OEC long before I had Pricescope. My jewer had it checked at IGI but by the time the report came back I was just in love with the stone and I was not experienced in reading reports.

My OEC is one of those stones that are 'not so good' on paper and adorable in real life. I am still in love with my stone but I wish I had had some guidance and that I had been less naive

Happy hunting!!!

 

[trednybr]

I am still torn Our jeweler with the "OEC" had sent out the diamond to be recut to get rid of a tiny chip on the edge. The recut brought the diamond size down to 2.6 carat. He then had it sent to GIA as the diamond was not certified before.

Here is what it came back as:

Circular Brilliant
9.05 - 9.07 x 5.0 mm
Carat Weight: 2.60
Color Grade: K
Clarity Grade: VS1
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: none

What do you guys think? The jeweler is willing to set the diamond in a basic setting and let me wear it around for a day. He is doing this because I am unhappy about it coming back as a K but he said it shows very white and I should give it a real chance.

What do you guys think? And what is a circular brilliant as I've never seen this before? Is it no longer antique style?

 

[madelise]

Can you post pics of the newly recut diamond? K is very white for an OEC. I don't automatically discount going w shallower old cuts bc my e-ring OEC that Jon from GOG hand picked is shallower. But it's case by case and rare. Before you purchase, post pictures please for PSers to give their opinions.

 

[gemmyblond]

Hi trednybr - Have you asked to see the newly-issued GIA report (certificate)? And verified the date as well as the wording of "Circular Brilliant"? I've not heard of those words used to describe a shape/cutting style on a GIA report (but I am the first to admit that my knowledge is modest, at very best!).

GIA began describing certain stones as "Old European Brilliants" on their reports fairly recently (last several years) when the stones meet certain pretty stringent criteria related to table size, overall look, and certain other criteria (which I don't specifically know). But that nomenclature is reserved for a very specific style and set of parameters; if a stone doesn't satisfy all the criteria, GIA may call it "Round Brilliant" even though it may look like an old stone to some people or be considered such.

So this can get confusing since you can have jewelers and consumers both calling a stone an Old European Cut when on the GIA document, it clearly states "Round Brilliant". And yet the stone may not look exactly like (or even that much like) a modern round brilliant cut.

You just want to make sure you're buying what you think you're buying, and that the price you pay is fair for what the stone really is.

Good luck and please post photos if you can.

 

[SB621]

And that ladies and gentlemen is WHY YOU ALWAYS GET A LAB REPORT! If I remember correctly your jewelry said that OEC was an H or better and GIA said K, big color descrepancy right there that impacts pricing. Before I thought he was offering you a pretty good deal if specs checked out. Regardless I still think a K is fine but that is just me. If you want something higher you will need to go down in size probably to go more colorless.

I still think you should take the advise given above and see what JbEG and OWD has in your price range. Then you can make a decision on what you want to do. By seeing other options I think it will be more clear if you want to stick with this diamond or try to find something else.

Edit: Was it a recut or a repolish? If it was a recut did they recut it for a MRB or to stay in line with the OEC? Sorry but I'm confused by your post. I have known in the past that GIA didn't label old cuts as anything other then rounds but I thought it was posted recently that they now ID OEC's etc.

 

[Hera]

Circular brilliant is a first for me! Can you post the GIA report number?

I looked at the picture and I didn't see a discernible pattern but I'll keep an open mind. Please post more pictures especially face up to see the faceting.

Part of the value of old cuts is not only the stats but is how pretty the stone is.

 

[trednybr]

here's the GIA report - Thanks so much everyone for your input. I am going to see it this week and will take tons of pics.

 

[trednybr]

 

[CharmyPoo]

A 2.7 ct H VS1 at 23K would have been a fantastic price even with small chips. A K makes the price about average.

The seller actually sounds like a good one with what he has done for you. Would he be willing to lower the price?

I have never seen Circular Brilliant before and your photos don't allow us to evaluate the facet pattern of the diamond. However, you have seen the diamond yourself and if you feel it is beautiful - it may be worth considering.

 

[soxfan]

A 2.7 ct H VS1 at 23K would have been a fantastic price even with small chips. A K makes the price about average.

The seller actually sounds like a good one with what he has done for you. Would he be willing to lower the price?

I have never seen Circular Brilliant before and your photos don't allow us to evaluate the facet pattern of the diamond. However, you have seen the diamond yourself and if you feel it is beautiful - it may be worth considering.

Since it came back as a K (which is still beautiful, I have a K round) try to talk him down. But first, DEFINITELY call the vendors that SB suggested. There may be a better deal out there. Good luck!

 

[nowicanseethemoon]

I can't read the measurements in the report. Can you post them?

 

[SB621]

I can't read the measurements in the report. Can you post them?

I think it looks like 9.05x9.07x5.00mm.

OP truly it sounds to me like you are already emotionally invested in this diamond so it really doesn't matter what we say. Try to take a step back and logically work this out as emotional purchases as usually the ones most ppl regret.

1- See what else is out there for pricing. This way when you talk to your jeweler if he negotiates the price down you know roughly what else like it is selling for. Why pay 24k when Joe Diamonds is selling something similar for 20k?
2- I would call GIA about the classification and ask for more information.
3- I would find out if it was a recut or a repolish.