OEC O/P color?

[nowicanseethemoon]

I'm looking at an OEC that is 2.7 ct. 8.8mm and an O/P color. It's uncertified from OWD. I love, love, love old diamonds with color and don't think an O/P would be too warm for me (I love Meg's O/P from Adam). My concern is that it's an uncertified O/P. How close does Adam usually come to a GIA cert? And is an EGL cert ok for an OEC? I know I can have it sent to me to inspect, but I want to make sure it's a real possibility before going down that road. I've seen the video and am happy to post the link, but since I don't have the diamond on hold, I don't want it snatched away before I decide. Any thoughts?

 

[derbygal]

I can't help you, but if you get this stone, I can't wait to see it set. Love lower colors!

 

[Missy]

Why don't you ask Adam to send it to GIA on your dime and then you can decide. I prefer GIA certs over EGL for any diamond-OEC, OMC, RB etc.

Ginger bought an uncerted stone and had sent it to GIA and it was a bit off but I think Adam gave her a bit of a discount on it.

Good luck!

 

[madelise]

Why don't you see it in person first? Pay for it or whatever hold on your credit card that they do so you can get it shipped out to you. BC even with it being graded whatever color.. It seems like every old cut faces up differently. There are so many GIA Ls and Ms here, but everyone's seems to perform differently. I saw some old cuts upside down, side by side that appeared A is whiter than B, then face up, B is whiter than A. Weird stuff.

 

[SB621]

Hey there

So normally I would never recommend buying a diamond uncerted, but when JustGinger got her O/P "poppy" from Adam at OWD she posted it came uncerted but appraised at the same info or I think perhaps 1 color grade higher. You might want to go back and check her threads, but I definitely remember it came uncerted with no lab report.

Fast forward to a few months ago and I was talking to adam about my AC. He gave me the option of having it certed through the GIA since it is in the same building. He could have just walked it up and I could have paid for the lab report which runs about $100/ per carat. I was impatient so I went without the lab report. I really didn't want to wait the 6 weeks plus. However, Adam told me if I did get a report or appraisal and something was off to call him and he would do a refund as he was SURE it was an O/P VS1 Clarity. Anyhow I have gone to 2 independant appraisers as I really don't want to shell out the $500 + for a lab report and both of them confirmed the specs. Clarity was the same across the board. One appraiser said O/P and the other said N/O. So I would say that Adam is pretty dead on with his assessments and should he prove to be wrong he will work with you I'm sure to make you 100% happy.

EDIT: And to just add if this really concerns you and I'm assuming you have more patience then me- go ahead and just pay for the cert. You won't have to pay for shipping as it is the same bldg. If the report comes back and you are happy with it then have them ship it out to you. If it comes back in left field then you have only lost that $200-$300 and I have a feeling Adam will be bending over backwards for you.

 

[SB621]

Why don't you ask Adam to send it to GIA on your dime and then you can decide. I prefer GIA certs over EGL for any diamond-OEC, OMC, RB etc.

Ginger bought an uncerted stone and had sent it to GIA and it was a bit off but I think Adam gave her a bit of a discount on it.

Good luck!

Really!!! Did she get the report after she bought it. Now I'm really curious! Off to check her threads! Thanks Missy!

 

[Niel]

id look though Megs threads. If i remember hers was uncerted but she had it sent somewhere. I cant remember if it was GIA but i swear she sent it off after she bought it

 

[valmanin]

I can help you!!!

I had that stone (at least I assume it's the same one) at my house for a weekend...well, I actually had it twice. It is GORGEOUS!!! Seriously, I loved it. I just wanted a little bigger. I really had a hard time passing it up though.

Here is the link of all the pictures I took of that stone...

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...honkers-could-one-of-these-be-the-one.187743/

 

[valmanin]

I'm looking at an OEC that is 2.7 ct. 8.8mm and an O/P color. It's uncertified from OWD. I love, love, love old diamonds with color and don't think an O/P would be too warm for me (I love Meg's O/P from Adam). My concern is that it's an uncertified O/P. How close does Adam usually come to a GIA cert? And is an EGL cert ok for an OEC? I know I can have it sent to me to inspect, but I want to make sure it's a real possibility before going down that road. I've seen the video and am happy to post the link, but since I don't have the diamond on hold, I don't want it snatched away before I decide. Any thoughts?

I had the diamond appraised by a very well respected appraiser who does all the old cuts in town. She pegged it as O/P as well. Of course, it is not GIA, but I stood there with her looking at it lined up with the GIA master stones and it looked right in that range to me. It is definitely warm...I am not gonna lie, but it throws such beautiful colors. The other thing I think I should mention is that there is a little nick in the girdle...like I could feel it with my finger. My appraiser called it an SI2 for that reason and recommended that it be set in a protective mount like a bezel. Adam and "his people" looked at it and disagreed. They felt like the nick didn't touch the surface and therefore, the stone could be set any way I wanted. I think I would have felt most comfortable setting it in a bezel though since I could actually feel the nick...made me nervous.

 

[nowicanseethemoon]

I can help you!!!

I had that stone (at least I assume it's the same one) at my house for a weekend...well, I actually had it twice. It is GORGEOUS!!! Seriously, I loved it. I just wanted a little bigger. I really had a hard time passing it up though.

Here is the link of all the pictures I took of that stone...

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...honkers-could-one-of-these-be-the-one.187743/

Valmanin!!! thank you so much. I loved looking at your pictures and thank you for your assessment. It makes it a lot easier to read through your thread and see it in a variety of lighting conditions. I'm considering a setting from Single Stone like Twoanguinehearts' first setting:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reveal-single-stone-reset-lots-of-pics.179152/

Do you think the chip could be polished out? That makes me nervous too.

SB, I was anxious to hear your thoughts since you've worked with Adam and I absolutely adore your stone.

Neil, Meg sent hers to GiA and they graded it an O/P but I can't see if she said if that was consistent with what Adam said.

Thank you all for your helpful advice. I appreciate you all.

 

[valmanin]

I can help you!!!

I had that stone (at least I assume it's the same one) at my house for a weekend...well, I actually had it twice. It is GORGEOUS!!! Seriously, I loved it. I just wanted a little bigger. I really had a hard time passing it up though.

Here is the link of all the pictures I took of that stone...

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...honkers-could-one-of-these-be-the-one.187743/

Valmanin!!! thank you so much. I loved looking at your pictures and thank you for your assessment. It makes it a lot easier to read through your thread and see it in a variety of lighting conditions. I'm considering a setting from Single Stone like Twoanguinehearts' first setting:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/reveal-single-stone-reset-lots-of-pics.179152/

Do you think the chip could be polished out? That makes me nervous too.

SB, I was anxious to hear your thoughts since you've worked with Adam and I absolutely adore your stone.

Neil, Meg sent hers to GiA and they graded it an O/P but I can't see if she said if that was consistent with what Adam said.

Thank you all for your helpful advice. I appreciate you all.

I deeply that SS setting. I have it in my saved folder.

Adam recommended not polishing the nick out because he did not feel like it needed it. I didn't pursue it any further since I decided to go with my stone.

Honestly I think given the chip/nick or whatever it is, you should have him send it to GIA just for your protection. Heck, it could come back I1 for all we know.

 

[Missy]

Why don't you ask Adam to send it to GIA on your dime and then you can decide. I prefer GIA certs over EGL for any diamond-OEC, OMC, RB etc.

Ginger bought an uncerted stone and had sent it to GIA and it was a bit off but I think Adam gave her a bit of a discount on it.

Good luck!

Really!!! Did she get the report after she bought it. Now I'm really curious! Off to check her threads! Thanks Missy!

Sarah, I think I may be misremembering...I think she got a PS approved appraiser to check the diamond out instead of getting a GIA cert. In any case it was a bit different but Adam made her happy. That's what I think happened but my memory is a bit fuzzy (again I have to blame it on lack of sleep which is a chronic problem for me because I am up before dawn most days ).

nowicanseethemoon, wishing you luck in finding the stone of your dreams! Adam is a doll to work with and if anyone can help you he can!

 

[madelise]

Why don't you ask Adam to send it to GIA on your dime and then you can decide. I prefer GIA certs over EGL for any diamond-OEC, OMC, RB etc.

Ginger bought an uncerted stone and had sent it to GIA and it was a bit off but I think Adam gave her a bit of a discount on it.

Good luck!

Really!!! Did she get the report after she bought it. Now I'm really curious! Off to check her threads! Thanks Missy!

Sarah, I think I may be misremembering...I think she got a PS approved appraiser to check the diamond out instead of getting a GIA cert. In any case it was a bit different but Adam made her happy. That's what I think happened but my memory is a bit fuzzy (again I have to blame it on lack of sleep which is a chronic problem for me because I am up before dawn most days ).

nowicanseethemoon, wishing you luck in finding the stone of your dreams! Adam is a doll to work with and if anyone can help you he can!

Hm, I remember there was some discrepancy and thought it was Ginger, too..

 

[justginger]

Yes, Adam stated that my stone was an L. Neil placed it at an O/P. My GIA-level appraiser here called it an M. I think both of those gradings are accurate in their own ways - O/P from the bottom, M from the top (which is exactly the two manners they were graded).

The pricing I received from Adam was ridiculously low if it had been an L, and still low for an O/P according to the reasonable expected retail value according to Neil. In fact, it was about 22% lower than what Neil said was a fair price, so yes, I was pleased with the transaction (plus Adam's doting customer service).

If I were you, I *would* have an independent grading though, for an uncerted stone. As you can see by my experience, it could theoretically be three grades lower than an O/P and you want to know what you're signing up for.

 

[nowicanseethemoon]

Yes, Adam stated that my stone was an L. Neil placed it at an O/P. My GIA-level appraiser here called it an M. I think both of those gradings are accurate in their own ways - O/P from the bottom, M from the top (which is exactly the two manners they were graded).

The pricing I received from Adam was ridiculously low if it had been an L, and still low for an O/P according to the reasonable expected retail value according to Neil. In fact, it was about 22% lower than what Neil said was a fair price, so yes, I was pleased with the transaction (plus Adam's doting customer service).

If I were you, I *would* have an independent grading though, for an uncerted stone. As you can see by my experience, it could theoretically be three grades lower than an O/P and you want to know what you're signing up for.

Thanks Ginger. Would you just get an appraisal (Neil is within driving distance for me) or would you pay to have GIA look at it?

 

[justginger]

Yes, Adam stated that my stone was an L. Neil placed it at an O/P. My GIA-level appraiser here called it an M. I think both of those gradings are accurate in their own ways - O/P from the bottom, M from the top (which is exactly the two manners they were graded).

The pricing I received from Adam was ridiculously low if it had been an L, and still low for an O/P according to the reasonable expected retail value according to Neil. In fact, it was about 22% lower than what Neil said was a fair price, so yes, I was pleased with the transaction (plus Adam's doting customer service).

If I were you, I *would* have an independent grading though, for an uncerted stone. As you can see by my experience, it could theoretically be three grades lower than an O/P and you want to know what you're signing up for.

Thanks Ginger. Would you just get an appraisal (Neil is within driving distance for me) or would you pay to have GIA look at it?

I personally chose the appraiser route because I knew Neil would be a tough grader, and would be able to offer me a) an experienced opinion on how my stone compared to the thousands of others he's seen, and b) an estimate of fair retail pricing. If I had been purchasing a MRB, where the 4 Cs are pretty much all that impact the value, the GIA cert would have been sufficient - I could have plugged those figures into the PS search engine and seen what sort of retail prices were coming back, and get a feel for retail that way. Antique stones are a different kettle of fish - I wanted an experienced professional to tell me I was purchasing a comparably beautiful stone for a fair price.

So if I were you, I'd take a drive to visit Neil. Others would inevitably disagree, as to them a diamond REQUIRES a GIA cert.

 

[Dreamer_D]

My understanding is that pricing of diamonds per carat does not change much when you are talking about O/P and more tinted (until you hit the fancy range and prices go up again). So, it is not *as* important to get a lab report with a diamond estimated and priced appropriately at the O/P range than it would be if the seller was trying to sell the stone as being in the K-M range.

ETA: Of course clarity is another story and a VS1 is much more expensive than a VS2 or lower. So, me personally, I would want a lab report for such a large purchase. I don't really understand why Adam doesn't get the reports anyway. The only reason for a vendor NOT to get reports is to get a little more money from consumers (bad reason) or to move inventory faster (maybe true). But I don't get the feeling his inventory moves so fast that he cannot support the GIA wait time. Also, the wait time for vendors is not as long as for regular consumers.... so all this is to say I don't really trust big time main stream vendors who try to sell expensive diamonds without a lab report. So I would ask for one.

 

[SB621]

ETA: Of course clarity is another story and a VS1 is much more expensive than a VS2 or lower. So, me personally, I would want a lab report for such a large purchase. I don't really understand why Adam doesn't get the reports anyway. The only reason for a vendor NOT to get reports is to get a little more money from consumers (bad reason) or to move inventory faster (maybe true). But I don't get the feeling his inventory moves so fast that he cannot support the GIA wait time. Also, the wait time for vendors is not as long as for regular consumers.... so all this is to say I don't really trust big time main stream vendors who try to sell expensive diamonds without a lab report. So I would ask for one.

To address this Dreamer, from my experience talking to Adam the vast majority does come with either EGL or GIA reports. Out of the 8 AC's I was looking at only the AC I ended up purchasing didn't have a lab report as It had recently come in. Since his pricing was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than anyone else I personally don't care if the lab report comes with it or not. I could pay out of pocket for the report and still be well under the pricing from other places. With Adam if the report came back in my favor (better than expected) there would be no price difference. If he came back negatively then you have a 30 day return policy + I know he would still honor a return way outside that window if the description was wrong.

To most ppl a report is another safety net on their purchase. I would rather pay less for a diamond without a report then have it certed on my own dime vs. buying a diamond with a report that has a premium on top of that. However with all that said I would only do it from a responsible vendor who has an excellent return policy. I get not everyone would. And I would also just add I would only do this for an old cut diamond where the personality of it means more to me than the 4 C's. A modern I completely understand the comfort of a report more.

Sorry off my tangent now!

 

[nowicanseethemoon]

I personally chose the appraiser route because I knew Neil would be a tough grader, and would be able to offer me a) an experienced opinion on how my stone compared to the thousands of others he's seen, and b) an estimate of fair retail pricing. If I had been purchasing a MRB, where the 4 Cs are pretty much all that impact the value, the GIA cert would have been sufficient - I could have plugged those figures into the PS search engine and seen what sort of retail prices were coming back, and get a feel for retail that way. Antique stones are a different kettle of fish - I wanted an experienced professional to tell me I was purchasing a comparably beautiful stone for a fair price.

So if I were you, I'd take a drive to visit Neil. Others would inevitably disagree, as to them a diamond REQUIRES a GIA cert.

Ginger, this makes sense to me. Fair retail pricing is a big question, although from what I've seen from other online vendors, Adam's price is very competitive.

 

[Enerchi]

Not meaning to throw a wrench into your plans, but I was just in Chicago this week,I dropped off a ring for resizing for my DD the day before we met PSers there, and he has a pretty good stock of loose OEC's/OMC's but are not up on his website.

If you are still interested in pursuing a further search, you may want to contact Ilya as well (www.diamondzonejewelry.com) and give him your specs --- there were plenty to choose from!! He regularly acquires loose stones, so it is an evolving inventory and I sure enjoyed seeing the stones!

But - if this is the stone of your dreams, then sorry to confuse you.

 

[Dreamer_D]

ETA: Of course clarity is another story and a VS1 is much more expensive than a VS2 or lower. So, me personally, I would want a lab report for such a large purchase. I don't really understand why Adam doesn't get the reports anyway. The only reason for a vendor NOT to get reports is to get a little more money from consumers (bad reason) or to move inventory faster (maybe true). But I don't get the feeling his inventory moves so fast that he cannot support the GIA wait time. Also, the wait time for vendors is not as long as for regular consumers.... so all this is to say I don't really trust big time main stream vendors who try to sell expensive diamonds without a lab report. So I would ask for one.

To address this Dreamer, from my experience talking to Adam the vast majority does come with either EGL or GIA reports. Out of the 8 AC's I was looking at only the AC I ended up purchasing didn't have a lab report as It had recently come in. Since his pricing was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than anyone else I personally don't care if the lab report comes with it or not. I could pay out of pocket for the report and still be well under the pricing from other places. With Adam if the report came back in my favor (better than expected) there would be no price difference. If he came back negatively then you have a 30 day return policy + I know he would still honor a return way outside that window if the description was wrong.

To most ppl a report is another safety net on their purchase. I would rather pay less for a diamond without a report then have it certed on my own dime vs. buying a diamond with a report that has a premium on top of that. However with all that said I would only do it from a responsible vendor who has an excellent return policy. I get not everyone would. And I would also just add I would only do this for an old cut diamond where the personality of it means more to me than the 4 C's. A modern I completely understand the comfort of a report more.

Sorry off my tangent now!

I can totally respect your decision-making. Knowing all the sides of this i ssue, consumers can make their own informed decisions, which is what PS is all about!

 

[nowicanseethemoon]

Not meaning to throw a wrench into your plans, but I was just in Chicago this week,I dropped off a ring for resizing for my DD the day before we met PSers there, and he has a pretty good stock of loose OEC's/OMC's but are not up on his website.

If you are still interested in pursuing a further search, you may want to contact Ilya as well (www.diamondzonejewelry.com) and give him your specs --- there were plenty to choose from!! He regularly acquires loose stones, so it is an evolving inventory and I sure enjoyed seeing the stones!

But - if this is the stone of your dreams, then sorry to confuse you.

Oooh, I would never have considered Diamond Zone. I'll email him and see - you just never know do you

 

[WinkHPD]

I'm looking at an OEC that is 2.7 ct. 8.8mm and an O/P color. It's uncertified from OWD. I love, love, love old diamonds with color and don't think an O/P would be too warm for me (I love Meg's O/P from Adam). My concern is that it's an uncertified O/P. How close does Adam usually come to a GIA cert? And is an EGL cert ok for an OEC? I know I can have it sent to me to inspect, but I want to make sure it's a real possibility before going down that road. I've seen the video and am happy to post the link, but since I don't have the diamond on hold, I don't want it snatched away before I decide. Any thoughts?

I have read the thread and see the multitude of responses and have only one thing to add.

See the stone.

It sounds like it is speaking to you and deserves to be seen. If you love it, knowing the reputation of the vendor and your own preference for old diamonds with color it is probably NOT an issue that it have a cert, but if you get one, an EGL is never ok since you never know what you are truly getting.

In these "lower" colors (I hate it that we jewelers are always trying to convince you that the warmer colors are not as good, why should we decide what you like???) the pricing varies little with one or even two color grades. It varies more with the clarity, and even these are normally small changes in the warmer colors.

My comment really though is this. These are older diamonds and are not easily replaced with like kind and quality if they are lost or damaged. The paper is not nearly as important as the look and whether or not it speaks to you and asks to be taken home. Look at it. If you love it, keep it. If you do not, or are not sure, send it back. At best, you find a new friend. At worst, you loose a little postage.

Wink

 

[Enerchi]

^^^^^

Yay!! I hope you find something you like!
HEre is the eBay link to a ring I have seen IRL --- AND LOVED!!! we all tried this on! I'll include my pics as well as his link (and look at the price!! OMG!! $11950 for a 2.63 OEC measuring 8.6 - 8.7mm??? YA --- that baby was Sa-WEEET IRL!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-69ct-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-VINTAGE-ART-DECO-ENGAGEMENT-RING-ANTIQUE-LARGE-/151105636645?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item232e990925

my pics below and in the full hand shot, its the 2nd down on the middle finger, leaning to the left... it was BEAUTIFUL and warm white and HUGE IRL!

Call Ilya - what the heck!

 

[nowicanseethemoon]

Wink - thank you for the excellent advice. I agree that seeing it is the only way to really know, and if I like it, a certificate doesn't really change that.

Enerchi - That's the exact link Ilya sent me! I can't really tell from the photos - what's the faceting like? I don't see the lovely flower facets under the table. Are they there? It does look very white in the hand shot. My guy and I are going to be in Chicago in a couple of weeks. It might be worth a trip to DZ to see it in person. Although, I still love the OEC from OWD - the faceting is awesome (and from what I've read and seen from Valmanin, it's a fireball).

 

[Enerchi]

Oh my! If you get a chance to go and meet with Ilya - that would be sooo much fun for you to see it in person!! YAY!!! honestly, I saw so many stones and I was in diamond heaven, that I truly can't be too specific other than it seemed to be a well balanced, symmetrical stone with a small culet and I don't believe there were any visible inclusions to MY eye ... but I'm going on memory from being immersed in a total bling haze!

It read as a very white/warm white stone, seemed pretty decently large on as far down my size 8 ring finger I could get it to go! It had a lot of life to it and really pleased me - I think rubyshoes and Quaddio were also quite impressed by it, but ... DORY! "just keep swimming"!!!

Can he ship it to you to inspect? even the setting was gorgeous and we all loved the NS/EW prongs. It was a beauty, that's for sure!
I'm also thinking you are getting some of my iphone/ollo clip black reflection in those pics... wanted to point that out so you don't dismiss it without seeing it in person.

 

[SB621]

ETA: Of course clarity is another story and a VS1 is much more expensive than a VS2 or lower. So, me personally, I would want a lab report for such a large purchase. I don't really understand why Adam doesn't get the reports anyway. The only reason for a vendor NOT to get reports is to get a little more money from consumers (bad reason) or to move inventory faster (maybe true). But I don't get the feeling his inventory moves so fast that he cannot support the GIA wait time. Also, the wait time for vendors is not as long as for regular consumers.... so all this is to say I don't really trust big time main stream vendors who try to sell expensive diamonds without a lab report. So I would ask for one.

To address this Dreamer, from my experience talking to Adam the vast majority does come with either EGL or GIA reports. Out of the 8 AC's I was looking at only the AC I ended up purchasing didn't have a lab report as It had recently come in. Since his pricing was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than anyone else I personally don't care if the lab report comes with it or not. I could pay out of pocket for the report and still be well under the pricing from other places. With Adam if the report came back in my favor (better than expected) there would be no price difference. If he came back negatively then you have a 30 day return policy + I know he would still honor a return way outside that window if the description was wrong.

To most ppl a report is another safety net on their purchase. I would rather pay less for a diamond without a report then have it certed on my own dime vs. buying a diamond with a report that has a premium on top of that. However with all that said I would only do it from a responsible vendor who has an excellent return policy. I get not everyone would. And I would also just add I would only do this for an old cut diamond where the personality of it means more to me than the 4 C's. A modern I completely understand the comfort of a report more.

Sorry off my tangent now!

I can totally respect your decision-making. Knowing all the sides of this i ssue, consumers can make their own informed decisions, which is what PS is all about!

Exactly! It is all about what each consumer is comfortable with.