OEC experts, please help evaluate the cut on this OEC

[Kim N]

I know this OEC has some obstruction. How bad do you consider it to be? Would it be worth a pavilion-only recut?

If you have any thoughts on that or on other aspects of the cut of this OEC, please do share!

Thanks in advance!

 

[ForteKitty]

You might want to have a cutter inspect the diamond in person. I don't think any of us regular posters are qualified to make that kind of judgement.

 

[Kim N]

Good point, FK. I was going to do that, and of course, I want to avoid a recut if possible.

What do you think of the cut as-is?

 

[ForteKitty]

I think it looks pretty nice. Looks like it's currently bezel set? That might have contributed to the slight obstruction. Have you seen it in person?

 

[ForteKitty]

I have noticed something tho. Not sure if it's tilted in the pictures, but it looks like some of the crown angles might be longer than the others, giving it an off center shape. It's more noticeable in certain pics.

 

[Kim N]

Yes, it's currently bezel-set, and I have it in my possession right now. However, I have a very inexperienced eye when it comes to old cuts, so I really don't know how to evaluate cut on my own. So I can use all the help I can get on that! I do know that I can see the obstruction in person, but it varies how much I see it and in what lighting I see it. I guess I'm looking for, Yes, this is a good stone, keep it! Or no, you can do better.

Actually, Dreamer mentioned that too, that a bezel setting could contribute to obstruction. How open does a setting need to be to not contribute to obstruction? Do the sides need to not be covered at all?

 

[ForteKitty]

I don't think there is a formula. Two nearly identical proportioned european cuts can react totally different to being bezeled. I spent some time sticking several loose oecs into tin foil, and was surprised at how different they all looked. (was trying to figure out which to bezel into a pendant) My 3.78ct can be completely covered and still performs extremely well. My 2ct didn't fare as well.

It's pretty, and looks like a later european cut. However, only you can say if the obstruction bothers you. If it bothers you even a tiny bit now, it'll bother you a lot more in the future.

 

[Kim N]

Ah, okay. It's too bad if the bezel is contributing to the obstruction—my first love is simple solitaires with beautiful (mostly closed) baskets.

I know what you mean about bothering me more as time goes on. The thing is, as you may know, I've been searching for a deal, and this was a pretty good deal. It's been hard for me to find the right size in my budget.

I think the setting is authentically vintage. If the bezel is causing performance problems, what are your thoughts on re-setting original pieces?

 

[ForteKitty]

I'm pretty averse to tearing apart an authentic vintage piece, so I'd leave it alone. Obstruction doesn't really bother me, and I expect to see it in older diamonds. If I wanted a perfect diamond, I'd buy an H&A.

 

[Kim N]

Very true. But I do wonder if it'll bother me more over time. So I guess I'm mainly struggling with weighing the performance/obstruction issue against the deal aspect.

 

[Mara]

Is it in a ring or a pendant? Can you get some more pics?

For a ring stone I would want a stone you can do more with in terms of setting. Some old stones just don't look good in a bezel.

It's only a great deal if it's really what you want. If you have to talk yourself into it, I would keep looking.

 

[Demelza]

Ah, okay. It's too bad if the bezel is contributing to the obstruction—my first love is simple solitaires with beautiful (mostly closed) baskets.

I know what you mean about bothering me more as time goes on. The thing is, as you may know, I've been searching for a deal, and this was a pretty good deal. It's been hard for me to find the right size in my budget.

I think the setting is authentically vintage. If the bezel is causing performance problems, what are your thoughts on re-setting original pieces?

I'm with FK -- I would also be very loathe to take apart an authentic vintage piece assuming it's in good condition and beautifully made. That would also significantly impact how good of a deal you're getting since a well-made new mounting can cost in the thousands. I would say you should return it if you don't like it enough as is.

I think the diamond looks very pretty, but I do see the obstruction. What percentage of the time are you seeing it?

 

[Kim N]

Thanks, Mara and Dem. I appreciate your input as, along with FK and Dreamer, you all have my favorite OECs on PS.

The bezel ring that it's in is likely authentic vintage, in good condition, and gorgeous, so I too would prefer not to change it. On the other hand, I also want the stone to perform as best as it can.

I believe the deal I got was good even just for the diamond alone, and with the beautiful mounting included, I think it was an even better deal.

I have some other pics, but these are the best ones showing the obstruction. I just got it, so I haven't had a chance to really wear it in lots of different environments yet, but the obstruction seemed to show up so readily when I was taking the pictures that I got worried about the cut quality. I do love the diamond and ring, but I'm coming from always having had a perfect H&A, so I'm trying to adjust and not expect perfection.

 

[junebug17]

I'm wondering if some of the darkness you're seeing in the pics could be camera reflection? Just a thought, since you mentioned it seems more pronounced in pics.

I think it looks like a pretty stone! Am interested in hearing what you think of it in various lighting conditions. Would love to see more pics too.

 

[Enerchi]

Exciting Kim! You are so close to the diamond your wishing for!,

Someone suggested taking a white piece of cardboard and poking the camera lens thru it, so you eliminate camera reflection in the diamond. Maybe it was Kenny?? Can you try that then post new pics w the camera shielded in white cardboard or paper? It may look completely different then!

Good luck!

 

[Demelza]

Thanks, Mara and Dem. I appreciate your input as, along with FK and Dreamer, you all have my favorite OECs on PS.

The bezel ring that it's in is likely authentic vintage, in good condition, and gorgeous, so I too would prefer not to change it. On the other hand, I also want the stone to perform as best as it can.

I believe the deal I got was good even just for the diamond alone, and with the beautiful mounting included, I think it was an even better deal.

I have some other pics, but these are the best ones showing the obstruction. I just got it, so I haven't had a chance to really wear it in lots of different environments yet, but the obstruction seemed to show up so readily when I was taking the pictures that I got worried about the cut quality. I do love the diamond and ring, but I'm coming from always having had a perfect H&A, so I'm trying to adjust and not expect perfection.

Do you see the obstruction as readily in real life or is it mostly in pictures?

 

[yssie]

1. I'm not an expert

2. What type of bezel is it? Post a side pic? With a high crown like that an unobtrustive sort of bezel with an open back that doesn't have much vetical height beyond the girdle is going to have far less effect than a more closed-in type.
IMO from the pics it looks pretty clear that most of the darkness in the crown and mains is b/c of camera reflection like june suggested. The LGFs do look to be "leaking" (letting light escape) but like FK said that could be exaggerated by the bezel.. I think it's pretty in the pics, but I don't look for for MRB-style precision of light return in antiques. Ditto PPs - it's whether your eyes like what you see that counts!

And this is where I differ I personally have no problem with dismantling antiques and creating new heirlooms, so... I'd say if you think it'd benefit from a different sort of setting then go for it!

 

[Kim N]

Posting from my phone right now, so I'll try to upload more pics tonight Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Enerchi and Yssie. To quickly answer Dem's question, I do see the obstruction in person, but not in all lighting, but sometimes it's pretty obvious that it's there. I'm bringing it to an old cut jeweler today to see what they think.

 

[Kim N]

Okay, just got back from the jeweler. They said it's a very pretty stone and would not merit a recut, and a more open setting would not result in a significant change in performance. Additionally, it was sold to me as a K VS2, but they thought it was an M SI2 by GIA standards. I do see a visible table inclusion. Not sure what to do now; it's not as good of a deal as I thought it was.

 

[ForteKitty]

How many mm, and how much did you pay? Did the listing state the specs were based on GIA grading? I always expect diamonds to be a few grades off. If you want a GIA graded diamond, you should be looking at ones with an existing report. Or adjust your bid price to account for the difference.

 

[Kim N]

The listing's specs were from a GG appraiser, and I'm okay with non-GIA graded diamonds, but I was hoping for more like L SI1 or something. It is about 9.1mm, and I paid about $18k. I was just not expecting the clarity to be that low.

 

[Enerchi]

If you like the diamond for what it is, and what your eyes see, and you'd like to keep it, using that appraisal info I would contact the seller and try to negotiate a lower price. You did not get what you thought you were buying, so to speak. Would you feel better if the price was reduced?

If not, and you are not happy, then you have reason to return it.

How are you feeling about it? The diamond is not the sum of its stats tho. If you love it for what you see, then keep it! its only us crazies on PS that get caught up with the details!

 

[ForteKitty]

Unfortunately, GG appraisals are rarely just one grade off in both color and clarity. They are usually at least 2 grades off.

Can you try to get a picture of the inclusion? How visible is it?

 

[Kim N]

Enerchi, you're right, I know most of what matters is what I see, so I'm taking it around today and viewing it in lots of environments. I do find it beautiful. I'm still thinking about whether a price reduction would affect my opinion of it. And I'm definitely one of the PS crazies who gets caught up in the details!

FK, hmm, I didn't know that. I'll post a pic of the inclusion.

ETA: It's not letting me attach the pic from my phone. I'll try again later.

 

[Kim N]

Here's the best picture I have of the inclusion on the table.

 

[ForteKitty]

That looks like it'd be pretty small in person. The cut looks pretty good!

 

[junebug17]

That looks like it'd be pretty small in person. The cut looks pretty good!

I agree - I'm thinking this wouldn't be noticeable at a normal viewing distance?

 

[Kim N]

Yeah, it is pretty small in person, but it's black, so it's visible to the naked eye because I know where to find it, and I have hawk eyes. I do have about 10 days left to think about it.

So the cut looks good to you in that pic? I have a few others here. The last two are from handshots.

 

[Kim N]

I'm wondering if some of the darkness you're seeing in the pics could be camera reflection? Just a thought, since you mentioned it seems more pronounced in pics.

I think it looks like a pretty stone! Am interested in hearing what you think of it in various lighting conditions. Would love to see more pics too.

Missed responding to this earlier, junebug, but you're right that a lot of it is camera reflection. I don't know if the overcast sky the day I took those pics had something to do with it too, but today it was sunny and I didn't see as much darkness. In fluorescent office lighting it was only a little dark, and it does wonderfully with spot lighting (but spot lighting makes all diamonds look good).

 

[Demelza]

Okay, just got back from the jeweler. They said it's a very pretty stone and would not merit a recut, and a more open setting would not result in a significant change in performance. Additionally, it was sold to me as a K VS2, but they thought it was an M SI2 by GIA standards. I do see a visible table inclusion. Not sure what to do now; it's not as good of a deal as I thought it was.

Is the person who told you this someone you know and trust? For a purchase this large, I would have the stone checked out by an independent appraiser who really knows old cuts well. When I bought my stone, I had it sent to Dave Atlas to make certain that I was getting the deal I thought I was. It was great peace of mind. Also, if you get an appraisal saying it isn't as represented, you could work on getting a partial refund if you decide you'd like to keep it.