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Octavia Performance vs Size

Gorp512

Rough_Rock
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Hello all,

Lurker finally coming from the shadows to inquire among the community.

So I believe it's coming up on time to propose.

Graduate school has me on a limited and fairly tight budget (5-6k) and my gf would like a solitare asscher. After searching online, I came across the Octavia and am really amazed by its brilliance. I would ideally like the biggest possible stone but am aiming for around 1c. I'm really looking for a well performing and well cut diamond and will sacrifice size for something that sings.

I was just wondering if I'm totally out of the loop looking for an Octavia in this budget range. And for anyone with work experience with this cut, if you could pass along any guidance on concessions I could make to get the best possible diamond. Almost kismit, I'll be up in Long Island in July and plan to swing by GoG to take a look at the stones myself. Wish me luck and thanks for all your help!!!!! I'm sure it's been said before, but the invaluabilty of this site is immeasurable!
 

diamondseeker2006

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With that budget, I highly recommend going with a regular asscher and not an Octavia. Octavia's sell at a price premium for their specialty cut, and asschers in general face up small. So you need to go as large as your budget allows, and you simply get more size from a regular asscher. I am a big fan of GOG's specialty cuts and have one (AVR), but I have also bought a regular asscher. Good Old Gold is also good at picking regular asschers. Here is the video they made for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7SBfNGxTFE&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&index=2

I will add that I feel if a person wants an asscher, you should get an asscher. An Octavia is not the same. They are very special stones, but I do not feel that someone who wants an asscher is necessarily going to be happy with a smaller Octavia substitution. I would not.

Just a quick price comparison for 1 ct asscher and Octavia:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.03-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-1136003 (two color grades higher, $3k+ less)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-search/1.02-the_octavia_asscher--AGS-I-VS1-diamond-stock-11537-cert- (5.7mm square or .2mm larger than the regular asscher)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.32-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-298346 (same color, 5.8mm, and $2k less)

I am not necessarily recommending those two specific asschers, but I am trying to give you an idea of the size difference and why I think you need to focus only on regular generic asschers (not Octavias or GOG signature asschers).
 

lambskin

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Does your GF know about Octavia ? Why not mention it or take her along?
 

Gorp512

Rough_Rock
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Thanks!

That is quite the difference.

I mentioned the Octavia to her and she is open to it, but we are both admittedly very new at this whole thing.

We plan to go into town this weekend to look at settings and stones. Is there any ideal specs I should be looking at for an asscher to ensure a well performing stone???

I'll be sure to keep posting my findings and research!
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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My 2.30ct Octavia is only 7.3mm in diameter, but if you decide to buy her an Octavia she will be one of the very few person on earth sporting the cut. I think there are < 40 Octavias cut by Yoram.
 

Dancing Fire

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diamondseeker2006|1464318190|4036767 said:
Just a quick price comparison for 1 ct asscher and Octavia:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/1.03-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-1136003 (two color grades higher, $3k+ less)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-search/1.02-the_octavia_asscher--AGS-I-VS1-diamond-stock-11537-cert- (5.7mm square or .2mm larger than the regular asscher)
DS
Hummm, strange...I thought an Octavia would face up a lot smaller compared to a regular asscher of the same weight?... :confused:
75% VS 67.5% in depth... :confused:
 

kenny

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KarlK, the creator of the Octavia, has gone on record stating the Octavia is similar in face up size to a well-cut generic asscher.
Also he's explained the reasons they cost more per carat than a generic.
IIRC Karl donates part of his proceeds to a shelter for battered women.

Since I own two rounds with top cut, Whiteflash ACA and Solasfera, I know good light performance.
For a few years I also wore a generic asscher from GOG with superb cut.

We own two Octavias and IMO their light performance blows generic asschers out of the water.
The high crown assures that, unlike even the best-cut rounds, the astonishing light performance continues even pretty far off-axis.
IOW, you don't have to fling your wrist up and look into the diamond straight down on axis to get see a fireworks show.
Off axis is how we usually see our diamonds.

How fortunate you are that you will go to GOG and see the Octavia for yourself.
 

diamondseeker2006

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DF: I actually surprised at the diameters, too. Might have just been the stones I used. But from my prior search, most regular asschers faced up around 5.5mm at 1 ct.

Kenny: his budget is under $6k. That won't get much at all in an Octavia, probably .80 which is going to be really small.
 

kenny

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diamondseeker2006|1464323996|4036797 said:
Kenny: his budget is under $6k. That won't get much at all in an Octavia, probably .80 which is going to be really small.
Every buyer of the Octavia could have had a larger generic.
We knew this but we turned down those larger asschers.
Must be a reason.

I'd rather have a 0.80 Octavia than whatever carat generic asscher the same budget would provide.
The light performance is that good.

OP, don't listen to anyone in this thread, myself included.
Go to GOG and see what you see.
 

Dancing Fire

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Kenny is our Octavia ambassador. .. :)) he can tell you anything you wanna know about the Octavia cut... :wink2:
 

kenny

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Dancing Fire|1464324210|4036800 said:
Kenny is our Octavia ambassador. .. :)) he can tell you anything you wanna know about the Octavia cut... :wink2:
Contrary to what Leon Mege states about Pricescope on his website (that we're paid shills) I've never received a penny from GOG or from Karl or the Octavia's cutter Yoram.
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="kenny|

We own two Octavias and IMO their light performance blows generic asschers out of the water.
The high crown assures that, unlike even the best-cut rounds, the astonishing light performance continues even pretty far off-axis.
IOW, you don't have to fling your wrist up and look into the diamond straight down on axis to get see a fireworks show.
Off axis is how we usually see our diamonds.

[/quote]

Kenny
I can attest that statement!...I often see sparkles coming from its pavil.
 

Dancing Fire

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kenny|1464324354|4036801 said:
Dancing Fire|1464324210|4036800 said:
Kenny is our Octavia ambassador. .. :)) he can tell you anything you wanna know about the Octavia cut... :wink2:
Contrary to what Leon Mege states about Pricescope on his website (that we're paid shills) I've never received a penny from GOG or from Karl or the Octavia's cutter Yoram.
Neither have I, In fact they love emptying my wallet... ;(
 

kenny

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Dancing Fire|1464325420|4036816 said:
kenny|1464324354|4036801 said:
Dancing Fire|1464324210|4036800 said:
Kenny is our Octavia ambassador. .. :)) he can tell you anything you wanna know about the Octavia cut... :wink2:
Contrary to what Leon Mege states about Pricescope on his website (that we're paid shills) I've never received a penny from GOG or from Karl or the Octavia's cutter Yoram.
Neither have I, In fact they love emptying my wallet... ;(
DF, I love you dearly but your quotes often do not work.

If you leave the ] instead of deleting it, your quotes will work.

Notice in your previous post your quote of me starts, "[quote="kenny|

It should start [quote="kenny|]

IOW, stop deleting the ]
 

diamondseeker2006

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Kenny, the least expensive Octavia GOG has is $8200 and the OPs budget is $6k or less. His gf asked for an asscher. I appreciate the artistry of cut and design of the stone and it seems to appeal to men, because more men have one here than women. If he decides to take her to GOG to let her see what a custom cut .70 Octavia would potentially look like versus a 1 ct asscher, then that way we'd know for sure what her preferences are. If he plans on surprising her, then I think he needs to stick with an asscher, which is what she has indicated she wants. However, if he wants a small Octavia for his own band, that would be great!!!
 

diamondseeker2006

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Karl_K

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kenny|1464323741|4036796 said:
KarlK, the creator of the Octavia, has gone on record stating the Octavia is similar in face up size to a well-cut generic asscher.
Also he's explained the reasons they cost more per carat than a generic.
IIRC Karl donates part of his proceeds to a shelter for battered women.
Look at the mm measurements for step cuts not so much the depth.
2 asschers cuts both 65% depths and same weight can vary more than 25+% in mm spread while one with a depth of 75% can have greater mm spread than one with 65% depth.
There are some flat step cuts out there with high spread that the performance suffers on so just going for max spread is not a great idea but using the mm measurements for comparison once you determine they are well cut should be taken into consideration over depth percentages.

While I do donate to shelters when I can, it was the discontinued octacz that the entire design fee was paid to a woman's shelter and not to me.
 

misskittycat

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OoohShiny

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Dancing Fire|1464325101|4036812 said:
kenny said:
We own two Octavias and IMO their light performance blows generic asschers out of the water.
The high crown assures that, unlike even the best-cut rounds, the astonishing light performance continues even pretty far off-axis.
IOW, you don't have to fling your wrist up and look into the diamond straight down on axis to get see a fireworks show.
Off axis is how we usually see our diamonds.
Kenny
I can attest that statement!...I often see sparkles coming from its pavil.
I hate you both - it will be a lonnnnng time till I can get one :blackeye:
 

Gorp512

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Thanks so much! Since I will be right by GoG, I will surely swing by even to just take a look. I am happy to hear they have good traditional asschers, as well.
 

arkieb1

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I think the best thing to do is go and take a look at them, a couple of people I know have seen them and actually prefer standard well cut asschers but they are not into precision cuts like most of the people are here. I don't think you would go wrong with either from GOG. I think you need to determine what you do and don't like and the only way you can do that is by going and trying on or looking at both.
 

OoohShiny

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I agree with this ^^^

Seeing in person is the only real way to tell if one likes the different cuts of individual diamonds, IMHO.

And if the Octavia wins over the other, GOG can see what they might be able to do with regards to cutting a new stone to the available budget. :)
 

diamondseeker2006

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If you are ready to buy at that time, you actually need to make an appointment, tell them your budget, and ask them to call in regular asschers for you to look at as well as an Octavia. They don't stock many in the store but do call them in for you to see (or video) when you are ready to buy.
 

pyramid

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Love that 1.20 Octavia. Have to agree with Diamondseeker though better to get a larger stone for a woman. I would like the 1.20 Octavia but then I am an addicted to diamonds person. I used to think the Octavia looked better for men, with the high crown and angles but I have had a change of heart and like the Octavia now for women too. If she has not seen it though I would not buy her it as women sometimes like the shape as much as the extra sparkle if they want a fancy cut diamond to start with (providing the normal shaped asscher is well cut too with enough light return.)
 

Gorp512

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Again, so many thanks.

Would anyone here be able to recommend a jeweler in the Philadelphia area that is experienced with well performing asschers????
 

teobdl

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IMO off axis sparkle is the most alluring feature of Octavia's because diamond cuts generally don't do it well. As some one said above, people see diamonds off axis the great majority of the time. Having never seen an octavia I can't attest to this feature (ETAS doesn't lie though) but if I were in the market I would be sure to make my decision having compared diamonds from a variety of viewing angles.

Another thing to consider is that even though face Up edge to edge area is smaller than other diamonds, the viewable surface area of an Octavia is probably greater than others when viewed off axis because of the high crown.
 

Diamond_Hawk

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kenny|1464324205|4036798 said:
OP, don't listen to anyone in this thread, myself included.
Go to GOG and see what you see.
This made me smile

and then when followed up by the back and forth from everyone here - just terrific.

OP - a lot of people passionately working to help you here. Cool, isn't it?
 

diamondseeker2006

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Gorp512|1464362787|4036968 said:
Again, so many thanks.

Would anyone here be able to recommend a jeweler in the Philadelphia area that is experienced with well performing asschers????
Seriously, that is extremely unlikely anywhere. Number one, almost no jewelers will have a selection of asschers in stock since they are not a top seller. And finding a jeweler that specializes in well cut asschers is like finding the needle in the haystack. Good Old Gold is where you need to go for asschers. But again, you have to have an appointment and ask for them to call some good ones in for you to choose from.
 
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