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not savvy at ALL and new here please help!

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On 6/10/2004 4:27:59 PM robbe wrote:


sorry, forgot to your name aljdewey


aljdewey

...always the same song...didn't you know that igi splits the grades when they appraise diamonds that are mounted in the jewelry item? when you see h-i, si1-2, it means they split these grades because the stone is mounted. look in the comment section where it says 'graded as mounting permits'. of course, how in the world could you have known...right?
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Robbe.....You're saying IGI has to "split" gradings on mounted stones? Why? Gee, my appraiser was able to give an accurate *single* grading to mounted stones. If IGI is so qualified, why can't they do so?

Yes, always the same song, and will continue to be so as long as you keep suggesting that IGI in the US is on par with AGS/GIA....which is ISN'T.

You've been quite clear that you believe they are comparable. I respect your right to believe that personally if you choose. However, just because you believe it does not make it so, and in fact, a *significant* majority of experts flat out disagree with your assessment. Many of them have commented on the VERY lax grading of IGI in the US.
 
aljdewey,
only trouble is, what i say here is based on stones, many stones...thousands of them. what you say is based on what someone said that another said ect ect...
one of the igi owners that i know quite well told me some time ago the following: how people perceive a company sometimes depends on a first single experience. he said for example some people fly delta ailines for the first time, and during this flight one flight attendant doesn't serve you well and this reflects on delta airlines, a 20-thousand people company. the first time traveller will never fly delta again, just because of this one incident.

the other day i read in the newspaper: volkswagen calls 45-thousand cars back to the factory because there is a mnufacturing error! do you think these owners will ever buy volkswagen again?

i don't know you and i am trying to understand what it is you are saying.
according to your shopping experience, you were victim of what i call a professional negative incident. the result is your opinion.

i repeat i work with this company very regularly, increasingly with the usa branch as well lately and i insist: they are reliable. it is your opinion that is 'conditioned' and outdated.

regards, robbe
 
The 88 cut is exactly what I would consider rather than the zales. If they have a better quality rock for about the same amount of money, I would LOVE to get that one. Now, I went to the website and they only have a store in Florida, I am in California
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furthermore, concerning your question
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my appraiser was able to give an accurate *single* grading to mounted stones. If IGI is so qualified, why can't they do so?
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because any pro will tell you there is no such thing as "accurate single grading" to mounted stones. your appraiser is at fault if he or she does that. a qualified appraiser shall not single-grade mounted goods.

robbe
 
Robbe,
I think it's great that you agree with IGI gradings. However, two stones that I took to an independent appraiser were graded lower in both color and clarity than was stated on the cert. When I went to the same appraiser with a GIA graded stone it was on the money (actually, he said my "I" looked more like an "H"). Obviously, there are people who agree with the IGI or the company would not exist. And it isn't as though we're saying that ALL IGI graded stones are not graded as stringently as GIA or AGS stones. What we are saying--or at least what I'm saying--is you need to be careful. It's the same with EGL certs. There are some that are great, others that are considered by some to be too lenient. I personally am the type to want the harshest grading and "criticism" about a stone I am considering spending $18000 on because I don't want to find out later that, when compared to stones of the same color/clarity, mine looks worse than average. All in all people should just pick a stone that really speaks to them, but until you have seen enough diamonds to weed the good from the bad it's nice to know there are companies that can help with the process and make sure you're getting what you're paying for.
 
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On 6/10/2004 4:26:32 PM robbe wrote:


chialea,

i would define 'fair' as reasonable, honest, decent when comparing to other retail outlets.


moremoremore,

it's robbe, sweety, not robbie.



...always the same song...didn't you know that igi splits the grades when they appraise diamonds that are mounted in the jewelry item? when you see h-i, si1-2, it means they split these grades because the stone is mounted. look in the comment section where it says 'graded as mounting permits'. of course, how in the world could you have known...right?


vtigger86

what i am saying is for example when my italian clients convert my gia goods into igi, the grades are either similar or equal. additionally, some experts on this forum have already agreed previously with me that gia is often inconsistent in its grading results. this last point is a fact: my latest funny experience of 2 weeks ago: i had received i1 clarity from gia for a stone that i had selected as si1. i had requested a recheck but they wouldn't change it. i sent it back a second time after one month: i got si1 right away the second time. this is one out of many experiences with gia that i don't have with igi. pointless to send back for gambling, but when you know your stuff you would quickly find gia is not as consistent.

they are only human.


regards to y'all, robbe
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robbe,
i agree with you, all labs have certain consistancy problems. because when you send in the same stone back for a regrade, they are viewed by different pairs of eyes each time. what was your clients thinking, why in anybodys right mind would want to convert a GIA cert into a IGI cert? just to devalue the stone ? one thing about IGI, i have to agree with you,about their consistancy. they are consistantly over grading stones by color and clairty. i went into a mall store, and looked at some IGI stones, i'm far from an expert, but couldn't even fool me ,they are not even close to on par with gia or ags.
 
vtigger86


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"what was your clients thinking, why in anybodys right mind would want to convert a GIA cert into a IGI cert? just to devalue the stone ?"


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you seem not to be aware of the fact that igi is very respected in europe, italy especially.


additionally, europeans like their stones sealed. this is often the problem in europe with gia certed diamonds which are not sealed in a secured plastic container.




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"i went into a mall store, and looked at some IGI stones, i'm far from an expert, but couldn't even fool me ,they are not even close to on par with gia or ags."


-----------
you said it: "i'm far from an expert"


the remaining of your statements indeed proof so...


sadly, you too have a 'conditioned' mindset & interpretation on this matter.




robbe
 
well, whatever your name is, don't call me sweety.

Let's move on....
 


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On 6/10/2004 6:19:46 PM robbe wrote:











aljdewey,
only trouble is, what i say here is based on stones, many stones...thousands of them. what you say is based on what someone said that another said ect ect...

i don't know you and i am trying to understand what it is you are saying.



i repeat i work with this company very regularly, increasingly with the usa branch as well lately and i insist: they are reliable.
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Robbe, I don't know why this hasn't percolated through yet, but I'm more than willing to try again.



The initial comment was (paraphrased) "MOST experts don't hold IGI in very high regard because their gradings are extremely lenient." You said that's not true. It *is* true. I don't say it's true because of my personal experience with them, so my comments are *not* based on one stone or one pair of stones. I understand your point.....an isolated incident doesn't make a case....and I agree with that premise. But you mistakenly think that we're talking about an isolated incident.



Do a search of the threads here. Many of the vendors and appraisers have also commented on the lack of reliability of IGI grading reports. Because they are vendors and appraisers, they TOO see *thousands* of stones.....so we aren't talking about one isolated event. In fact, I'd wager a guess that because these vendors and appraisers do business in the U.S. only, they have far more experience with the U.S. operations than your admittedly limited (although increasing) dealings with the U.S. operations.



Don't take my word for it. Call five respected appraisers in the U.S. and ask them what they think of IGI paper. Call ten. The results won't be good, believe me. There's a reason mall stores with average goods choose to run their less than stellar stones through IGI.....because they know they'll get inflated results.



I have no basis to dispute your assertion that their European labs are reliable; I don't have experience there. But even if you're right that they are reliable and well-reputed in Europe, that doesn't mean the US labs meet the same standard......and they don't. It doesn't matter how many thousand of stones you see in Europe. What I put stock in is the many vendors and appraisers here in the US who also see thousands of stones who also hold the IGI US operation in poor regard.

 
It's quite simple.
I'm no expert, that's why I rely on certs.
I'm no expert, so I seek the opinions of other people.
If more people say that IGI certs are less reliable, I have to believe it.
Good reputation has to be earned, through applying strict standards over a long period. If IGI is having such a hard time getting the trust of people at this forum, it speaks volume of the company.
If someone tells me that Delta is bad, I will take it with a pinch of salt. If another tells me that Delta is bad... I will start to question. If yet another person tells me that Delta is bad, I will have to start believing.

Robbe can place is trust in ICI if he wants. I'm certainly placing my money on AGS and GIA. Most consumers don't buy diamonds everyday. Why should we place out hard-earned money on a diamond certified by IGI when we can get one certified by AGS or GIA?
 
Methinks robbe has a vested interest in maintaining high markups for his inventory. This can be the only reason for advocating $7500+/ct for such ordinary (and that's generous) goods. He also seems a little too close to IGI for comfort as well.

His advice should be taken with several grains of salt just as the advice from the amateurs should be.
 
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On 6/10/2004 6:22:41 PM notsavvy wrote:

The 88 cut is exactly what I would consider rather than the zales. If they have a better quality rock for about the same amount of money, I would LOVE to get that one. Now, I went to the website and they only have a store in Florida, I am in California
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I have had this issue as well when trying to contact them regarding selling stones in NYC. They should also sell stone in Las Vegas (as they have some sort of store out there as well). If possible, see if you can call their number and speak to a representative to possibly ship a stone with your specs for viewing to an appraiser near you, or see if viewing their stones from their Las Vegas location is possible for you.

I only mention 88 because it is a VERY similar cut to the Octillion, and before you spend your hard earned money, you should see the competition before making a decision, either way. Good luck with the 88 search, and if you still encounter resistance, then head for the place that sells the stone you like!

After all, prices are worth only what we are willing to pay...and if it's worth it to you, buy it and enjoy it!
 
Not Savvy,

Just thought I'd jump in to say you can definitely do better than the diamond you mentioned particularly in terms of price and cut. Don't rush such a purchase. I've been lurking for months here so I can better understand exactly what kind of diamond to buy that will be right for me.

Best of luck and hang in there!
 
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On 6/11/2004 5:21:02 AM robbe wrote:


vtigger86

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'what was your clients thinking, why in anybodys right mind would want to convert a GIA cert into a IGI cert? just to devalue the stone ?'

------------

you seem not to be aware of the fact that igi is very respected in europe, italy especially.

additionally, europeans like their stones sealed. this is often the problem in europe with gia certed diamonds which are not sealed in a secured plastic container.


-----------

'i went into a mall store, and looked at some IGI stones, i'm far from an expert, but couldn't even fool me ,they are not even close to on par with gia or ags.'

-----------
you said it: 'i'm far from an expert'

the remaining of your statements indeed proof so...

sadly, you too have a 'conditioned' mindset & interpretation on this matter.


robbe
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Click to expand...


robbe,

im not brain washed about IGI stones. every stone has it's price if cheap enough. as for their certs, my wife lost an IGI cert(a stone she bought long time ago) and she was upset. i told her there's nothing to be upset about because for what its worth you could of use it for toilet tissue. you are about the only EXPERT on here that thinks so highly of IGI. if they are so strict on grading more people should be brain washed by now.
 
I just wanted to say that I think it's time we all stop the IGI debate and get back to helping notsavvy choose a diamond. With all the advice given, let's post some example pics and comparison specs for stones from other vendors, as well as comment on the stone notsavvy posted. Again, the specs of this stone were:

Shape: octillion modified brilliant
Measurements: 5.76 x 5.73 x 4.02 mm.
Weight: 0.98 carat

Depth: 70.0%
Table 62%
Girdle: slighty thick, to extremely thick
cutlet: none, abraded

finish
Polish: good
Symmetry: good

Clarity grade: SI (2)
Color grade: Near colorless (G)
Fluorescence: none
Total estimated retail replacement value $10,495

it comes with a platinum mounting weighing at 3.6dwt

and the total cost of the ring would be around $8,500 including insurance.
 
vtigger86


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"i told her there's nothing to be upset about because for what its worth you could of use it for toilet tissue"


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you are confusing gemology and scatology...




robbe
 
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Whether IGI is good or not is not the issue anymore. You guys took it too seriously
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and pretty much started a discussion about it *lol* I appreciate you trying to help, but I didn't want people against each other.

Anyway, I went to another webpage where they told me that the rock I looked at was worth $2,254
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or so. Thanks Robbe, but if so many people are saying the rock is not worth what IGI says, then, I think I'll go with that... no offense though; I appreciate your encouragement.

Also, I called back and they told me that the total price of the ring would be $7,300 and not the $8500 I had mentioned. They even said they'd throw in a discount and lifetime warranty and cleaning and polishing. *lol* I know it's still not good, but I just thought I'd mention it.

NotSavvy
 
Good choice, notsavvy!
Have you found another stone you like or a cut that you are now considering?
 
Even though a lot of people here consider it a stop sign shape, I cannot say that I see it that way. I love the shape and so does my girlfriend. I found out she loved it by her sister, so I had to go check it out and I can't deny that I loved the shape also. So, the other shape I would consider is the 88. It must have the same shape, and setting... or at least a very similar setting.
 
If you do decide to go with an octillion, just make sure Zales will let you take the stone to an independent appraiser before you purchase it to verify the lab report. While I would not go by the word of the IGI, I would also not pass up a stone I really loved just because I am suspicious of the company that certified it. Is there a money back guarantee or anything at Zales? I think the 88 would be a great choice otherwise!
 
I may not have had the amount of experiance with various labs that some have had, but in my diamond shopping I frequently sit and examine as many as 50 to 100 stones at a suppliers with various certs. I have probably seen over 1,000 stones this year.
My general experiance with GIA, AGS, IGI and HRD certs is that GIA are not as consistent in my opinion.
Given that GIA graded diamonds sell for a premium above the last 2 certs, it often seems strange that GIA has such a premium position.
Even if IGI was more generous on grading, and I think if that is true then it is less apparent than the general consensus, then the pricing differential in the market makes IGI stones a good safe buy.

Now I need to state that it maybe that if I did see the diamonds on a microscope and not with only a loupe, that I might agree more with GIA clarity grades, but the rules do state that clarity is graded with a loupe and a microscope is used only to locaate inclusions.
 
I am not sure if they have a money back guarantee.. they have a 30 return policy and a 90 day exchange one though.

I would not mind getting the 88... too bad it's not too accessible. I am in kind of a hurry, I want to propose by her bday which is in about a month.
 
You might want to go ahead and purchase a Zales stone then, take it to an independent appraiser, see what he/she has to say about it (including an appropriate amount to pay), and if it's not too bad of a deal, buy it. If it's really what your G/F's heart is set on and you're sure she wouldn't like something like the AMAZING jubilee better, there's not much you can do. I knew that, by getting a princess, my stone wouldn't be as brilliant as some RB's, but I really wanted it to be SQUARE square so we just found the best princess in our price range that we could :-)
 
Well, I had an extended conversation with my soon to be sister in law, and they have had a subscription to some wedding magazines where they look at different rings, and the only ring that I have seen on there that she loved was the octillion. There were some squares with the cut corners but that's just definitely not the same. Yes, they may be more brilliant, but you can definitely tell that it's a different shape. I hope I can get a good deal, I really want her to be happy with it. Of course the ring is not the most important thing, but I do want her to have one, and I do want her to be happy with it
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I'll try what you said, go to the Zales and take it to an independent appraiser, see what they say. But then, since Zales has the exclusivity for the shape, should it also be considered a bit more expensive?
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I went back to the store and took some pictures of the ring. I wanted to post the pictures on here even though I was a little iffy about it, but for some reason every time I try to post it, it gives me an error
confused.gif
Does anyone know why it does that?
 
You need to attach the file first, it might be too big of a file, or it's a file format that isn't accepted.
 
you can also try changing the name of the file -- no spaces or special characters, and make it unique, so it doesn't conflict with other files already on the system.
 


xcloseupx.jpg
 
hmmmm, that was weird... it only posted one, and I actually included 5 or 6. It won't let me post more than one for some reason
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(




rings+043.jpg
 
That looks alright, just at a glance. I've only ever seen one in person before and even then I didn't get a close look.
 
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