not savvy at ALL and new here please help!

notsavvy · Jun 9, 2004

I am looking into buying a zales octillion. I read that most of you do not agree with zales prices but I am very attracted to the shape of that diamond. Here is the information I have.

Shape: octillion modified brilliant
Measurements: 5.76 x 5.73 x 4.02 mm.
Weight: 0.98 carat

Depth: 70.0%
Table 62%
Girdle: slighty thick, to extremely thick
cutlet: none, abraded

finish
Polish: good
Symmetry: good

Clarity grade: SI (2)
Color grade: Near colorless (G)
Fluorescence: none
Total estimated retail replacement value $10,495

it comes with a platinum mounting weighing at 3.6dwt

and the total cost of the ring would be around $8,500 including insurance. I just wanted to know if this is an ok or good value... also, they told me that they have another diamond on the way which is a VSI (1) color I. Could you guys tell me which would be best to buy? Thanks!

Notsavvy

Rank Amateur · Jun 9, 2004

The "value" is neither OK nor good.

Make like a flock of seagulls and run all night and day - while you can still get away.

Rank Amateur · Jun 9, 2004

You're getting a $4000 diamond and a $1000 setting for $8500.

Ouch.

Does it come with a lab report?

chialea · Jun 9, 2004

I looked at the Zales online store. The octillian shape looks somewhat like the Jubilee or the Regent diamonds.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/jubilee.htm
http://www.goodoldgold.com/regent.htm

there's a comparison of the different squarish shapes here:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jubilee-queen-of-hearts-regent.15983/

this way you can go for the cool shape and for a shallower cut as well -- it will make the diamond look bigger -- as well as a better performing diamond for a much better price! looks like a win all around to me

notsavvy · Jun 9, 2004

Thanks for your replies...

It does have an appraisal report I received a copy of it before purchasing it so that I could do my own research and decide whether to buy or not. The report is from the IGI,

Now you guys say that it is not a good value... so why does it say on the report that it is worth more than 10k?

If I decided to buy this ring anyway, what would be the better diamond to buy? the VSI(1) color I or the SI (2) color G?

notsavvy

researcher · Jun 9, 2004

Most experts will tell you that IGI is extremely lenient, and that they therefore appraise stones for much more than their true value. Can you take the stone to have it independently appraised before purchasing? As for helping you decide on a stone, the only advice I can give is to make sure the "I" faces up white, and that the SI2 is truly eye clean (no visible inclusions). Because IGI doesn't adhere to the same strict grading as the GIA and AGS, your stone can be off by 1-2 colors or 1-2 on clarity. I'm not going to say don't buy this cut if you love it, but proceed with caution! IMO the jubilee is the most beautiful stone I've seen in a while!!!

Lincoln · Jun 10, 2004

Notsavvy - Be careful with the term appraisal. An appraisal is used for insurance purposes, and, unless someone else can help me think, I don't know what else you would ever use it for. Everybody's diamond *should* appraise for a significant amount more than the purchase price. But the real worth (value?) of a diamond is either what you could resell it for or what the same ring would cost elsewhere. The jeweler could provide you with an appraisal of $25k, and you would think you were stealing from them buying it for anything under $10k, but when it's all done and over, that appraisal isn't worth a hill of beans, as my grandpa would say. I would stick with your own research to estimate it's worth, and not the dollar figure from the jewelry store.

Hate to beat up eBay again, but take a look at this listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67726&item=4904113561&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It's appraised value is $3k. At a listing price of $5.50, how can you go wrong? Some lucky bride to be is going to get the suprise of her life...

HollyGo-Lightly · Jun 10, 2004

totally true! Many people I know think they are smart by having their stones appraised for more than it's worth. Sometimes many appraisers have affiliations with Insurance companies like Chubb or Jeweler's Mutual. Just so when you hit a certain premium mark, you pay the higher premium, usually for years and years without ever needing replacement. Even then they make money...?

Note all these jewelers most likely will REPLACE the stone for you (at the appraised value...yeah right!) They will replace the stone's SPECS, but NOT give you the $25K your $10K ring appraised for. THEY will go to a wholesaler they deal with, and get your $10K ring for $7K, and be done with it. Anyone can say that anything is worth anything, but the true value is made by the market.

Try this. Go to various E-Bay sites, diamond selling sites, etc, and see what a Octillion resales for. If you are lucky to find another, note that it WILL NOT be the appraiser's price.

It's like your jeweler saying if he had to sell your stone for any amount of money he would sell it for $15,000. Ok, but will there be a buyer at $15,000? Not likely! If that's what the appraiser says, then sell it to him, and run away with the money before he realizes he's been had!!

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

seriously- you are making a huge mistake. all of us diamond psychos are really into cut quality as well as getting the most out of our money. If you want the zales ring...I can live with that (lol)...what I can't live with is an IGI appraisal. What's going to happen is that you're going to buy the stone and you're going to be able to return it if you get it certed by GIA and it comes back different...then Zales will not refund your money when it does, and you will have to chose from tons of cr*ppy stones with worthless certs. They are a little looney, but DiamondBrokersofFlorida.com (Jan and Brad on that 'other' forum...have an octillion cut just like that)...ALso, the jubilee will kick your zale's stone's a**...LOL...You've probably worked hard for your money...now make it work for you by not basically giving it away to Zales!!!

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

oops...I meant IGI cert

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

a little pleasure reading for you...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-zales-issue-again.15750/

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

hmmm...look familiar?

(let's see if this link works)

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41064&highlight=Our+Newest+Diamond

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

they are priced like ideal cut rounds....which is still cheaper than zales...I believe (not really sure) that our good friend Wink can also get them???

Rank Amateur · Jun 10, 2004

----------------
On 6/10/2004 11:38:37 AM moremoremore wrote:

hmmm...look familiar?

(let's see if this link works)

http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41064&highlight=Our+Newest+Diamond----------------

Is 70% depth common for these stones? That combined with the overly thick girdle means you'd be buying a real fatty.

notsavvy · Jun 10, 2004

Everyone, thank you for your comments, I will consider each and every one.

and like I said, I really love the shape of the diamond, but seeing that there are others making the same shape

( http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41064&highlight=Our+Newest+Diamond---------------- )

Does anyone know where I could buy one like that, with a setting similar to the one at zales... and does anyone know what the estimated price would be? Thanks!

verticalhorizon · Jun 10, 2004

OMG... that price!

There are other companies that make an octillion (8 equal sided) cut. One is Fabrikant & Sons. This is the cutter, not the jeweler. I recommend that you work with a good jeweler like GOG who can possibly track it down for you. I think there may be one other.

I think, like others here, that the octillion sorta looks like a Stop Sign. That's just my opinion. I don't mean to rain on your parade but do you really want that to be your symbol of commitment?

Also, and more seriously, at the 1ct mark, an octillion will look pretty much like an RB unless you're seriously looking at it.

You may want to consider putting that money to better use getting a larger RB or a square shape like Jubilee, Lucere, Regent, etc. These also come at someone of a premium, but no where near what Zales is charging and they'll all be far better quality.

To put it in perspective (somewhat) you can probably get a 1ct D VVS2 for $10k or alternatively a 1.6ct I VS1 for $10k. Don't believe their trumped up price. I know they try to entice you with their THREE Certifications (IGI, GemEx and Gemprint). What you really want in hand is something from AGS, GIA and then an report from an independent appraiser that YOU pick.

Whiteflash and NiceIce can work wonders with RBs and Princess cuts. For more fancies, GOG is the way to go.

verticalhorizon · Jun 10, 2004

...and as far as the octillion from Diamond Brokers of Florida? Look how old that thread is. Just about all of those posts were from Sept-October 2003.

just-ice · Jun 10, 2004

"I would stick with your own research to estimate it's worth, and not the dollar figure from the jewelry store.

Hate to beat up eBay again, but take a look at this listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67726&item=4904113561&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It's appraised value is $3k. At a listing price of $5.50, how can you go wrong? Some lucky bride to be is going to get the suprise of her life..."

From that ebay page.
10 times magnified...
We promise...
"U GET WHAT U SEE"
Yuck............I see Eye-barf!

verticalhorizon · Jun 10, 2004

I almost want to bid on that just to see if what "U get what U see."

Lincoln · Jun 10, 2004

Not to detract from N. Savvy's post, but I looked at the feedback on that eBay seller, and granted it looks as though there's some buddy bidding, most of the buyers seem to be quite happy (??). I can't figure it out.

robbe · Jun 10, 2004

-moremoremore is right when he says "all of us diamond psychos are really into cut quality as well as getting the most out of our money.".

-he is wrong though when says "Most experts will tell you that IGI is extremely lenient".

i am an expert (sorry folks, i really am) and i am saying they are on the same lign as gia & hrd & ags.

-vertical horizon says "consider putting that money to better use getting a larger RB or a square shape like Jubilee, Lucere, Regent, etc. These also come at someone of a premium, but no where near what Zales is charging and they'll all be far better quality."... keyword is "consider" : let me advise you to consider what you like, first & foremost!

you, private consumers, be careful: this forum is not the holy bible. there are posts which are right, some are wrong, some are lies, some are opinions and as you all know opinions can defer.

on a personal note, i strongly believe zales is selling at fair prices. i also believe the octillion is very nice looking, but that's a question of taste and nothing else.

good luck, robbe

chialea · Jun 10, 2004

robbe, how would you define "fair"?

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

eh hem...robbie....SHE, not HE...wait, let me check.....YES, still a girl! LOL

hehehehehe

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

and that is not my quote..."he is wrong though when says "Most experts will tell you that IGI is extremely lenient"". But I do agree with the quote.

moremoremore · Jun 10, 2004

oh robbie- give me a break

Nicrez · Jun 10, 2004

Have you considered a 88 cut, which is basically an 8 sided cut as well. It is offered in a very limited scope f sales, but may be just what you are looking for. Also, bargain the price down, as I believe it has limited publicity in the US, and could very well bode well for them to give you an excellent deal for this AMAZING stone (I saw it in person in St. Thomas ,USVI), so you can tell people about it and drum up business for them...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/anyone-heard-of-the-88-diamond.13961/}

Also, as someone mentioned check out the (although I am NOT a fan of DBoF!!) their 8 sided version. I would say before you spend your money, compare apples to apples. There are other alternatives, find them, compare them, see their differences, and then make an informed decision. good luck and I hope you find the perfect stone!

aljdewey · Jun 10, 2004

="padding-bottom:0;marginTop:0;marginBottom:0;">----------------
On 6/10/2004 1:41:08 PM robbe wrote:

-he is wrong though when says 'Most experts will tell you that IGI is extremely lenient'.

i am an expert (sorry folks, i really am) and i am saying they are on the same lign as gia & hrd & ags.

----------------[/quote]

Robbe, sorry to disagree with you, but his statement "MOST experts would tell you IGI is really lenient" is a correct one.

You may be an expert, but you do not constitute MOST....you constitute ONE. One expert who thinks IGI is on par.....and you think that because you are referring to your experience in Europe. This has been pointed out to you before.

Several other (as in MOST) experts DO agree that IGI here in the US isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The IGI paper found in the US at mall stores, etc. is NOT the same thing as you experience in Europe.....I'm sorry, but real labs don't grade a diamond "F/G"....it's one or the other.

Lastly, I am the dubious owner of a set of earrings (purchased from Zales before I knew anything about diamonds) that came with an IGI "certification"....color F/G and I1. The diamonds are actually I color! That's not what I'd consider accurate grading.

Dancing Fire · Jun 10, 2004

----------------
On 6/10/2004 1:41:08 PM robbe wrote:

-moremoremore is right when he says 'all of us diamond psychos are really into cut quality as well as getting the most out of our money.'.

-he is wrong though when says 'Most experts will tell you that IGI is extremely lenient'.

i am an expert (sorry folks, i really am) and i am saying they are on the same lign as gia & hrd & ags.

-vertical horizon says 'consider putting that money to better use getting a larger RB or a square shape like Jubilee, Lucere, Regent, etc. These also come at someone of a premium, but no where near what Zales is charging and they'll all be far better quality.'... keyword is 'consider' : let me advise you to consider what you like, first & foremost!

you, private consumers, be careful: this forum is not the holy bible. there are posts which are right, some are wrong, some are lies, some are opinions and as you all know opinions can defer.

on a personal note, i strongly believe zales is selling at fair prices. i also believe the octillion is very nice looking, but that's a question of taste and nothing else.

good luck, robbe
----------------

Robbe,
This got to be a joke, if what you're saying is true- that IGI certs is on the same level as GIA and AGS, then we all can get rich over night. Just buy those IGI stones and have them recertified by either AGS or GIA, and then sell them for a lot higher premium .

robbe · Jun 10, 2004

chialea,

i would define 'fair' as reasonable, honest, decent when comparing to other retail outlets.

moremoremore,

it's robbe, sweety, not robbie.

...always the same song...didn't you know that igi splits the grades when they appraise diamonds that are mounted in the jewelry item? when you see h-i, si1-2, it means they split these grades because the stone is mounted. look in the comment section where it says "graded as mounting permits". of course, how in the world could you have known...right?

vtigger86

what i am saying is for example when my italian clients convert my gia goods into igi, the grades are either similar or equal. additionally, some experts on this forum have already agreed previously with me that gia is often inconsistent in its grading results. this last point is a fact: my latest funny experience of 2 weeks ago: i had received i1 clarity from gia for a stone that i had selected as si1. i had requested a recheck but they wouldn't change it. i sent it back a second time after one month: i got si1 right away the second time. this is one out of many experiences with gia that i don't have with igi. pointless to send back for gambling, but when you know your stuff you would quickly find gia is not as consistent.

they are only human.

regards to y'all, robbe

robbe · Jun 10, 2004

sorry, forgot to your name aljdewey

aljdewey

...always the same song...didn't you know that igi splits the grades when they appraise diamonds that are mounted in the jewelry item? when you see h-i, si1-2, it means they split these grades because the stone is mounted. look in the comment section where it says "graded as mounting permits". of course, how in the world could you have known...right?

not savvy at ALL and new here please help!

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