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Not loving my avr choice, need help problem solving

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
You may remember me from here [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/si2-deal-or-dealbreaker-did-we-make-a-good-choice.160323/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/si2-deal-or-dealbreaker-did-we-make-a-good-choice.160323/[/URL]

I've been meaning to post an update earlier but work has been distracting/busy. Long story short the diamond is not eye clean to my standards. The stone is indeed gorgeous no doubt but I can almost always make out the inclusion and in certain lighting it is obvious from more than a full arms length away. I found out I'm cursed with myopic hawkeyes and so maybe it's not noticeable to most others . My initial reaction was " guh!!! *heart break*. I was reallllly hoping this would be it. I will be honest my bf and I were a little upset that this was described to us as eye clean since to us (and our jeweller) it isn't HOWEVER since then I have gotten over the drama queen part and am now at the "ok it happened, now what do I do?" To be fair, I was warned about the risks of buying a si2 on the other post so I guess I deserve a few " I told you so's". Eye clean is very subjective, I took a risk and it unfortunately didn't pan out.

My bf wants to just do a return and start over locally but I really wanted an august vintage stone. So far these are my options, which one would you choose or suggest another alternative.

1. Keep what I have and wait to upgrade (it really is a nice stone and if I don't focus directly on the middle I can't always see the feather, at other times I'm just like woah, it's so obvious)

2. Exchange for a diff AVR ( budget is tight, rising prices don't help neither does limited selection there are only about 2 other AVRs that I would consider unfortunately none of them are higher than si1)

3. Exchange for a AVC ( another cut that I also like, however all stones in my price range are k-l and even though I love the warmth of a I I've never seen a K or L and am nervous)

4. Return, cut my losses start over locally- I have no idea where to begin looking for vintage style stones though

I don't really want to deal with the trouble of shipping stones across the border much more so I want to be super picky aka anal about my next purchase.

Please offer your sage advice. Thank you :)
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,748
I think realistically you have two choices to be happy with your purchase, at this point:

1. Return and choose a different AVC/AVR of a higher clarity, even if that means smaller/lower coloured, *ship it out to inspect in-person*, then and only then have it set - you might even be able to salvage and reuse your current setting, depending on what you choose as a replacement.

2. Return and start over locally/online. Real antiques are often high clarity but lower colour, from what I've found, though, so that doesn't really solve your dilemma - although I don't know what precisely is out there right now, you might find exactly what you're looking for!


An SI1 might meet your requirements - I would not dismiss them out of hand, but you should definitely plan on seeing whatever you choose in-person unless it's VS1+ I think.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,805
There are a few advantages to getting an AVR over an antique stone (trade-in is a big one). The obvious thing is that it will be better cut and likely face up slightly larger than an old stone. I just don't even try to get stones under VS because inclusions bother me, but it does look like the two most likely substitutes are SI1's. Are these the two?

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8243/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8236/

I would just ask them if either of these is really, really eyeclean, and if not, then that rules out an AV round unless you want to wait until they get more in. I'd probably ask when they expect to get some new ones. I don't see any AVC's that would work. I'd be afraid to go too low in color and I think you might have to go to VS2 for clarity with those to be happy.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Yes, I am glad you put the drama queen away ;)) SI2 stones are priced the way they are for a reason. For some, eye clean at 10 inches on casual inspection is fine! For you its not, at least with this stone. So you took a risk and it did not pay off, so return it, get your taxes back (you saved your customs forms I hope, the process is really easy).

I would consider one of the SI1s that were suggested. And Si1 is NOT an Si2, it is a world of difference, and to me both options look highly likely to be eye clean. Have it sent over, knowing there is a possibility it won't be ok with you. I know you don't *want* to deal with potentially returning another stone, but the cost and time is small potatoes compared to the PITA it will be trying to find a nice antique stone in Canada. I suspect you will be ok with once of those SI1s though.

OR tell Jon what you want and wait for the next AVR drop. Sometimes it is worth waiting for what you want!

Yup, it is a process. But you want an unusual stone, so you gotta take your lumps and deal with the challenges that entials m'dear!
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
I would also call Mark at ERD and ask him about sourcing you one of his antique style cushions too! They look really good from the pictures we have seen, are priced lower than AVCs, and he might have a better selection of higher color/clarity stones for you.
 

CharmyPoo

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
7,007
I am a bit biased but I usually just avoid feathers - I find them much more obvious than most other inclusions. I saw diamonds in the VS range with feathers and the inclusion were really obvious to me. Based on those experiences, I have completely written off diamonds with feathers ... yes, a bit biased.
 

aries2

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 9, 2005
Messages
66
Hi Nurse! I'm so sorry you're having such a tough time! I feel your pain/frustration as I had a tough time finding a stone within my criteria as well. I would not settle because it will end up bugging you forever. This is such a special item and you want it to be up to your specs and feel good...well, great about it! I know you're trying to save $$$ by going SI2 but I highly suggest going with at least an eye clean SI1. They do exist; I have one and I am super picky. As others have posted you must make sure it eye clean to your standards though. From personal experience, I recommend buying online, as you'll get a better deal and better quality; just all around more for your $$$. The stones sold in my local shops could in no way match what I was able to find online. Ask to speak with one of the top persons at the shop and tell them your story. Let them know that you want an eye clean stone from whatever distance you consider acceptable. I know that Good Old Gold has AVRs and their stones come with some very helpful documentation.

I am so excited for you that you're looking for an August Vintage Round! I have been lusting after this cut ever since I happened upon in my diamond search. I just love the chunky flashes of light it gives off and its unique cut. It's so dreamy and romantic! I would be willing to sacrifice color in order to meet your other criteria. A well cut stone will help hide body color..although perhaps less so in an AVR than in a modern RB because the AVR has chunkier facets, but it will still help. Perhaps look for a stone with medium blue fluorescence to help cancel out some of the body color; however, it would only help in lighting conditions with UV light (sunlight, compact fluorescent light bulbs, any type of UV lighting). In your case I would first ask the vendor to inspect it for you and then I would have it shipped so you can see it in person and decide. It really is a process and takes a long time and tons of research to find the one. IF you can afford to wait with the price increases of diamonds, then wait for the right one. Don't settle for something that you're not comfortable with though! Good luck : )
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Thank you all for the advice. I would respond to each of you individually however I'm just tap tap tapping away on my phone while I wait for my Internet to get fixed. I had originally written off the si clarity due to my experience but because of what some of you said I'll try to keep an open mind. Yes the two stones diamondseeker mentioned are the ones I'm considering. I'm being overly cautious though because they are si1 and I've been told the crystals are carbon spots (boo hoo).

Canuck gal thanks for your suggestion, oddly enough though I don't want a D colored stone.

Dreamer I will call erd tomorrow I didn't know they had antique cushions. The website doesn't show anything suitable for me and my budget but I'll give them a try anyways, thanks.

Yssie the stone isn't set so luckily I don't have to worry about that.

New AVCs aren't expected until mid next month. I guess worst case scenario is I cross my fingers and wait (I'm soo impatient though :( ) there was a L colored cushion that I was looking at but has since been snatched up by a lucky buyer. I managed to see an L in person today and I don't mind the warmth but am worried it would look odd with white melee.

Thank you again for replying. Getting feedback helps me stay positive.
 

Kasey3

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
386
I was at GOG yesterday as I was looking at an M colored AVR, I currently have an M colored AVC that is an SI2-I am in the same situation as you-I love the stone but hate the inclusions ! IMO the AVR showed less body color than the AVC, they were about the same size. I looked at the AVR for about an hour-on my hand, on my daughters hand, from the side, by the window, ect.The final test was next to melee. We placed the stone on a setting with pave and it looked great-the setting even had a halo so the stone was surrounded by melee and it looked fine. I looked at it in many lighting conditions and I thought it looked great. I could definately see the stone's color when I look at it from the side, but I think its beautiful and adds to the charm of the stone. I have seen the AVCs and AVRs in many colors and I have loved all of them! They are gorgeous-I even saw the 5ct J AVC (my dream stone) its a beauty! I previously owned an I AVC and I traded it in for the M and I actually like the M color better because it picks up so many colors-the blues and greens mixed with the warm are just gorgeous!

I hope you find a stone that makes you happy.
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Aries2 thanks for your condolences. I was thinking on maybe waiting it out but your mention at rising prices is making me double think. The august vintage line is fairly limited in my price range though I don't think I've seen any with flour sadly. If you don't mind sharing, what type of inclusion/location was the eye clean si1 that you found?

Kasey thanks for sharing your experience. I was worried about having a warm stone with whiter melee. I think you are right though, it will look fine as long as you love the warmth. Do you know what color melee it was ? Also what kind of diamond did you end up exchanging yours for? I'm curious to know if you had to jump to vs clarity or found a nice si1 that you like.
 

Kasey3

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
386
Hi Nurse. I believe that the melee were G and honestly I tried to see a color difference but couldn'tand I looked in all different lighting. When I bought the M AVC I told Jon I was worried about setting it with pave/melee and he kept saying don't worry it will look great-I never took it out of the solitare setting to re-set because I knew I could not live with the inclusions and that I would trade it when I found something I like-but after seeing the M OEC in a halo yesterday I know that Jon was correct.

The stone I am looking at is a VVS which I know is over kill but it just happens to be the stone I like. I wasn't looking for that level of clarity as I have some perfectly clean SII stones. I would not hesitate to but an SII again.

If you look in the AVC thread you will see some warm stones set with melee. They are all stunning. One person has a K in a halo and it is divine! One of my favorites. I never would have considered an I or M colored stone if it weren't for pricesope and all of the gorgeous low colored stones that the members have posted. I have learned that I like the warmer colored chunky faceted stones the best!
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Waiting one more month is nothing! It would take you longer to source something locally.

You might also call Leon Mege/ Perry about sourcing an antique cushion. I think they are very similar to the ones ERD offers. Not sure if Perry/Leon will sell a diamond without a setting, but they might. Worth a try.

Personally, I would not go for an L color with a halo or melee, but it is really a personal preference thing. Hard to know how you would feel until you tried it, and that is a gamble. Might pay off though!
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Update:

I have found some options and I'm feeling pretty good about them !

My top choice is
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8206/
What do you think in regards to aset/idealscope inclusions?? Color aside is there anyhthing that I should be worried about, double check on?

I was able to see some L/M stones in person and it turns out I really really like the extra warmth :) so I'm thrilled.
I'm also really excited about a cushion too, and I like how this one is really square. The vs1 clarity may be overkill but I'm wary due to my past experience.

My other option is this
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8236/
It's basically a slightly larger version of what I have now with slightly better clarity. The inclusions are dark crystals though and while I've been told that it's 100% eye clean I'm nervous especially since they are under the table. I'm leaning more towards the vs stone because it seems like less of a risk

Please let me know which of these two you prefer (or other options) !

Thanks!
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
Yssie|1307152894|2937399 said:
I think realistically you have two choices to be happy with your purchase, at this point:

1. Return and choose a different AVC/AVR of a higher clarity, even if that means smaller/lower coloured, *ship it out to inspect in-person*, then and only then have it set - you might even be able to salvage and reuse your current setting, depending on what you choose as a replacement.

2. Return and start over locally/online. Real antiques are often high clarity but lower colour, from what I've found, though, so that doesn't really solve your dilemma - although I don't know what precisely is out there right now, you might find exactly what you're looking for!


An SI1 might meet your requirements - I would not dismiss them out of hand, but you should definitely plan on seeing whatever you choose in-person unless it's VS1+ I think.

My suggestion us #1 of Yssie's choices. You may need to drop size to get the color cut and clarity you want but it will be eyeclean. You can always go with a vendor with a great upgrade policy and upgrade for an anniversary.
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
Nurse- you seem to be pretty clarity sensitive. I like the .88 stone better personally and I would be nervous the second stone would have inclusions that are visible to you.
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
I feel the same way Amys Bling, def very clarity sensitive. Do you think the Aset/imagescope photos are okay? Also how about natural and indented natural inclusions near the girdle?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,805
You don't need to worry about inclusions at all on a VS1! And August Vintage stones are cut for excellent light performance, so these stones are all beautiful! You do need to realize that the AVC is a tiny bit smaller than the round even though the weight is higher (maybe not even noticeable, but I wanted to be sure you noticed the measurements). I think they are both beautiful stones, but I also prefer VS clarity.
 

HopeDream

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
2,146
I have a 0.77 VS2 AVC and love it. I'm quite picky about eye cleanliness and I'm sure you'll be pleased with a VS1 clarity, especialy because the inclusion is near the girdle - you won't notice it unless you loup it. I like the square shape of my AVC especially that it's more unique than the typical RB.
 

Kasey3

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
386
I am happy to hear that you love the warmer stones-aren't they fabulous? I hope you love your new stone.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
For *me* I would go with the I color and take the chance on the clarity. As I said, SI1 is not Si2, especially under 1ct. But an I is also not an L, and for me I would opt for the near colorless stone having personally owned a K and not liked it.

Do you have the option of having them both sent to you to see?
 

nkarma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
636
Nurse,

I went through the EXACT same issue almost 2 years ago with an AVC and had the EXACT same feelings as you. I ordered an SI1 and I too have hawkeyes and saw an inclusion (actually the reflection of one). I too was working with a limited budget and very anxious to get my diamond especially given that as you said there are a very limited quantity which only come in once a month and who knows if it will meet your specs and budget.

My best advice for you is BE PATIENT and don't settle (on color, clarity, or cut). I don't think it is an option for you to keep the stone since really your diamond should be perfect given how much money you spent on it and how much time you will be staring at it. You will have this ring for the rest of your life or at least a couple of years if you plan to upgrade. So what is a month or two to wait for the perfect one? I had to wait a few very painful and long weeks for a new AVC but it was SO worth it as I spend a good 10 min/day even a couple of years later staring at it in awe.

You really can't find anything that compares to an August Vintage and if that is what you want, be patient and your perfect one will come.

P.S. I honestly don't think anyone at GOG was trying to deceive you with the being 'eye-clean.' They likely have different standards and eye sight than you.
P.P.S. I have an L AVC and it is bright white 98% of the time and I heart the slight warmth on a vintage cut.
 

nkarma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
636
nurse|1307481755|2940121 said:
Update:

I have found some options and I'm feeling pretty good about them !

My top choice is
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8206/
What do you think in regards to aset/idealscope inclusions?? Color aside is there anyhthing that I should be worried about, double check on?

I was able to see some L/M stones in person and it turns out I really really like the extra warmth :) so I'm thrilled.
I'm also really excited about a cushion too, and I like how this one is really square. The vs1 clarity may be overkill but I'm wary due to my past experience.

My other option is this
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8236/
It's basically a slightly larger version of what I have now with slightly better clarity. The inclusions are dark crystals though and while I've been told that it's 100% eye clean I'm nervous especially since they are under the table. I'm leaning more towards the vs stone because it seems like less of a risk

Please let me know which of these two you prefer (or other options) !

Thanks!
Like I said in my previous post, I wouldn't make a hasty decision just so you can have the diamond now. The only question you should be answering for either of these stones is...What cut do I want (AVR or AVC)? What color do I want? If neither of these stones match that answer then don't get either.

Also, if you look at the microscopic pic of the stone you have, you will see that the feather is quite large. If you look at the microscopic of the 0.78 I SI1 AVR, the inclusions are much smaller. Since that is a very zoomed in pic, it is unlikely you will be able to see inclusions of that size in real life, imho. If you do purchase the stone and for some reason can see inclusions, then you can always easily return it.
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Hi again
Diamondseeker I did notice the size diff but luckily it's no issue with me, the 0.88 is actual very similar sized ti the stone I'm returning. I have size 3.5 fingers and prefer the look of "smaller" stones ( a sin in the pricescope world I know ! :p )

Hopedream I'm also fond of the square avc shape. I also love the flowery facets if an oec! I can't say if I have a pref for either.

Kasey thanks! I hope I love it too whatever it ends up being :) it's nice to hear back from someone that also likes warm stones

Dreamer_d it's been great hearing your thoughts and experience and has really helped me develop my own ! Like I said already I've really WARMED (cheesy pun intended) up to the J-K-L range after seeing a few in person. The way my Jewellery explained it to me is that there really are no 'right' or 'wrong' diamond color only the one you prefer. I think marketing has made the warmer colors socially taboo and people automatically assume because a D diamond is so much more expensive it HAS to better which I personally disagree with.

Oh and I don't think we do gave the option of shipping both but if we could it would def be the best way to make a decision ! If only the accepted credit cards across the border.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
nurse|1307579836|2941164 said:
Dreamer_d it's been great hearing your thoughts and experience and has really helped me develop my own ! Like I said already I've really WARMED (cheesy pun intended) up to the J-K-L range after seeing a few in person. The way my Jewellery explained it to me is that there really are no 'right' or 'wrong' diamond color only the one you prefer. I think marketing has made the warmer colors socially taboo and people automatically assume because a D diamond is so much more expensive it HAS to better which I personally disagree with.

Oh and I don't think we do gave the option of shipping both but if we could it would def be the best way to make a decision ! If only the accepted credit cards across the border.
Oh you are totally right about diamond color! I own a J now. First had a J, then to ge ta larger stone I got a K, and after about 6-8 months living with it founs *for me* the tint was not what I wanted. Then I got a similar sized G Si2, which has an inclusion visible to my eyes. Finally got a J VS1 and I am happy. Discovering your own preferences *can* be a bit of an exploration. My only suggestion is that if you want this to be the forever stone, then do what you can to make sure you are totally happy with all of its characteristics -- color, clarity, cut, size. If you are fine with an upgrade or an exchange later on, then it is so much less of an issue, but from my experience, the whole upgrade/exchange process is not all that fun. Always wanting something else.

GOG will not accept a credit card from Canada? How strange! It could be worth thinking about getting a cash advance from the cc, even though you would pay interest, to see both stones to be sure of your choice, but on the other hand, maybe you don't need to see both to know!
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
nkarma|1307510327|2940530 said:
nurse|1307481755|2940121 said:
Update:

Thanks!
Like I said in my previous post, I wouldn't make a hasty decision just so you can have the diamond now. The only question you should be answering for either of these stones is...What cut do I want (AVR or AVC)? What color do I want? If neither of these stones match that answer then don't get either.

Also, if you look at the microscopic pic of the stone you have, you will see that the feather is quite large. If you look at the microscopic of the 0.78 I SI1 AVR, the inclusions are much smaller. Since that is a very zoomed in pic, it is unlikely you will be able to see inclusions of that size in real life, imho. If you do purchase the stone and for some reason can see inclusions, then you can always easily return it.
Hi thanks for your input!

I am def willing to wait but am having a hard time deciding whether it is 'worth' the risk of prices rising. I feel like I took gamble and lost and now I'm super cautious! I have decided to return my old one and just need to figure out what to replace it with. In terms of cut, I'd honestly be happy with any! In terms of color - after seeing some warm stones I'm confident that I like the warmer colors. I'm sort of excited at the idea of having something unique ( it's one if the reasons why I love these august vintage stones, ok they arn't that unique on pricescope but I think you know what I mean :p ) and I think the warmth will go great with my slightly tanned olive skin !

The inclusions in the 0.78 are carbon spots and so my biggest concern is that they will look like pepper flakes despite being so much smaller than the feather of my si2.
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Dreamer_D|1307580684|2941175 said:
Oh you are totally right about diamond color! I own a J now. First had a J, then to ge ta larger stone I got a K, and after about 6-8 months living with it founs *for me* the tint was not what I wanted. Then I got a similar sized G Si2, which has an inclusion visible to my eyes. Finally got a J VS1 and I am happy. Discovering your own preferences *can* be a bit of an exploration. My only suggestion is that if you want this to be the forever stone, then do what you can to make sure you are totally happy with all of its characteristics -- color, clarity, cut, size. If you are fine with an upgrade or an exchange later on, then it is so much less of an issue, but from my experience, the whole upgrade/exchange process is not all that fun. Always wanting something else.

GOG will not accept a credit card from Canada? How strange! It could be worth thinking about getting a cash advance from the cc, even though you would pay interest, to see both stones to be sure of your choice, but on the other hand, maybe you don't need to see both to know!
Im glad you found a stone that makes you happy!!
On their website it says international orders bankwire only. Maybe if you were a repeat customer or did a special request they would but I just never thought it was an option. I also just check GoG - the avc/AVRs are selling well apparently! All the stones i was considering including the 0.78 I si1 oec and a .96 L vs2 cushion have been reserved. So I guess that helps me narrow my choice and no longer have to think about shipping both.

I'm glad I reserved the 0.88 when I did. It's also almost 1k less than my other choice so that doesn't hurt either especially with my modest budget :p
 

nkarma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
636
nurse|1307581153|2941182 said:
nkarma|1307510327|2940530 said:
nurse|1307481755|2940121 said:
Update:

Thanks!
Like I said in my previous post, I wouldn't make a hasty decision just so you can have the diamond now. The only question you should be answering for either of these stones is...What cut do I want (AVR or AVC)? What color do I want? If neither of these stones match that answer then don't get either.

Also, if you look at the microscopic pic of the stone you have, you will see that the feather is quite large. If you look at the microscopic of the 0.78 I SI1 AVR, the inclusions are much smaller. Since that is a very zoomed in pic, it is unlikely you will be able to see inclusions of that size in real life, imho. If you do purchase the stone and for some reason can see inclusions, then you can always easily return it.
Hi thanks for your input!

I am def willing to wait but am having a hard time deciding whether it is 'worth' the risk of prices rising. I feel like I took gamble and lost and now I'm super cautious! I have decided to return my old one and just need to figure out what to replace it with. In terms of cut, I'd honestly be happy with any! In terms of color - after seeing some warm stones I'm confident that I like the warmer colors. I'm sort of excited at the idea of having something unique ( it's one if the reasons why I love these august vintage stones, ok they arn't that unique on pricescope but I think you know what I mean :p ) and I think the warmth will go great with my slightly tanned olive skin !

The inclusions in the 0.78 are carbon spots and so my biggest concern is that they will look like pepper flakes despite being so much smaller than the feather of my si2.
I do know exactly what you mean about unique cut. I haven't been paying attention too much to price increases. Crazy that they are changing that significantly so quickly. I also have a perma tanned olive skin (Italian heritage) and the warmer colored stones does look really great with it.
 
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