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SI2, deal or dealbreaker? did we make a good choice?

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
hello hello,

The diamond in question is this one.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8246/

Being our first major online shopping experience, I'm excited/nervous and would appreciate all feedback good/bad. At first from the diamxray and ASET I was nervous because the inclusion really showed, however I've been told over and over again that it is eye clean. Apparently the inclusion is in a really good spot so that it is 'hidden' by the culet (from what I'm told). I was also told that it would take the 64x microscope to photograph the inclusion but can be seen with a 10x loupe. I asked about profile shots but didn't hear anything back, do you think that I will be able to see the inclusion from the profile? Anyways, before we pull the trigger I would feel better knowing what you PS-ers think (not just regarding the inclusion but color, stats, price any feedback!)

Here is an additional photo
AVR.jpg
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
the only way to tell if it is eye-clean to your standards is to see it in person. GOG has a good return policy so if you don't like the inclusion, you can return it.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
slg47|1304647663|2913570 said:
the only way to tell if it is eye-clean to your standards is to see it in person. GOG has a good return policy so if you don't like the inclusion, you can return it.
Yes, this is unfortunately the case with SI2. They are real bargains, and you are well ahead of the game buying from a great vendor like GOG -- you can trust their opinion about it being eye clean by their definition. But the only way to know if *you* are ok with its level of eye clean is to see it! I would ship it loose and play around with it. You will know how you feel pretty fast. Then send it back for setting!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,748
ooh what a beauty!


Big ditto getting it shipped out and spending some quality time with it before having it set - you can't ever know with certainty how you feel until your eyes tell you, no matter what the papers and descriptions say.

and I'd ask them to take some off for a nice big open culet once it's been okayed ::)
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Thanks everyone that's answered so far. I think sometimes it really helps hearing from other people the same thing that you've been thinking for a while. It is reassuring knowing that I can return it with only a small amount of money lost on shipping, but it would be great if I don't have to! (Also, since I live in Canada, I have no idea how to go about getting the tax I paid back if I do return it).

Yssie, I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of a large culet, but on the same subject I looked at the diamxray and to me it seems like the inclusion is acting like a culet because it seems to have some sort of kozibe effect going on. I thought it was interesting, not sure if it's good or bad for me, from the pics I can't tell at all. Feel free to weigh in.

Since this is for my future engagement ring bf and I decided that I would help choose the stone and then the setting would be a complete surprise, probably set locally. We've come a long way, from almost buying from big name B&M's to fully custom - I blame pricescope :razz:.

Anyone with SI2's or inclusions similar to this stone please share your experience :)
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,748
nurse|1304650543|2913615 said:
Yssie, I'm not sure if I'm a big fan of a large culet, but on the same subject I looked at the diamxray and to me it seems like the inclusion is acting like a culet because it seems to have some sort of kozibe effect going on. I thought it was interesting, not sure if it's good or bad for me, from the pics I can't tell at all. Feel free to weigh in.

Anyone with SI2's or inclusions similar to this stone please share your experience :)

I see what you mean about it being reflected around the stone.. but I have no idea whether it would be unsightly or even really visible IRL! Your SA could give you some idea of that, though of course it's only an opinion.. Just a thought, maybe something to ask about - if the inclusion is very close to the culet, would cutting an open culet remove some portion of the inclusion, or even make it less noticeable? Assuming polishing it isn't a durability risk b/c of that inclusion or anything like that.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
I am in Canada too and have returned something to the US, it is no problem. When you import the diamond, FedEx (most likely shipper from GOG) will call you and arrange to pay the taxes for you using your credit card. Then when the package arrives it will come with a customs form indicating the taxes you paid when you imported the diamond. Save this form, because on the back of it is a form to complete and instructions you follow to get a refund of your taxes in the event you return the diamond to the US. If you return it, you arrange to send it back and get a note from GOG indicating the refund, and proof on the credit card or bank that you got the refund. You then send your proof along with the customs form to the customs office indicated on the form, and you get a check refunding the taxes within a couple weeks. So it is not immediate, but relatively painless nonetheless.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Only way to tell is to see it in person. Crossing my fingers for you!
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
B/c of the inclusions we've been debating on and off between this one and a 0.61 K VS2. The size is not an issue, I would almost prefer a 0.6x since (1) finger size is a 3/3.5 and (2) I'm really shy and don't feel comfortable attracting a lot of attention with a huge rock on my hand. So I guess we just need to decide between clarity or color. I don't mind the warmth of a K but BF really doesn't like the yellow/brown hue it takes on when looking from the side. The 0.61 is also cheaper by about 1000$ which is considerable in our budget and I would feel terrible if he overspent :( . He seems pretty set on the stone we have reserved now though. GAH! we've been going over this for weeks, sorry for ranting, we both need to just 'man/woman' up and make a decision.

Yssie, It would be amazing if the inclusion was right in the culet and I could just chop it off. From my emails though I read that the main inclusion is a feather and the others are tiny clouds/crystals. I'm not sure exactly where it's located but I probably wouldn't want to expose the feather to the surface would I?


Dreamer_D, thanks for explaining the return process! I had no idea where to begin.

Gypsy- Thanks! I'm crossing my fingers too, BF is making his final decision today and hopefully I'll have my very first bling to look at next week! pretty excited :D :D :D
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
I have owned a K color stone and found it to be noticably more tinted than J color stones I have owned. I think it would be noticable compared to the I you are considering.

Perhaps have them both sent to you loose to view? Then return the one you dont want? Set the one you keep locally to save the hassel of cross border shipping?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Are you set on a AVR? I ask because there is not much in that price range available right now from them :blackeye:
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Dreamer_D|1304702083|2914049 said:
Are you set on a AVR? I ask because there is not much in that price range available right now from them :blackeye:
I am not necessarily set on AVR, but really want an OEC cut stone. I just decided going with GOG because they got great reviews, and seems like a 'safer' bet considering my knowledge and experience. I know I will pay a premium, but I feel like I am guaranteed a quality rock that will perform amazingly and also a great return policy if I don't like it.

I did look at other places like old world diamonds but honestly felt overwhelmed. I had no idea where to begin looking at stones and how to translate their stats into how well they will perform. I did contemplate this stone for a while http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=645&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=7 but the EGL cert made me nervous.

unfortunately like you said, their selection in my price range is very limited and they just added new stock so if I want to take my chances I'll probably have to wait another few months or more (I don't think they restock very frequently) :(

Dreamer_D - when you had to return your stone, did you ship via Canada Post and how much on average did it cost you? (shipping/insurance/etc). GOG charges 100$ for international shipping so assuming it will be similar or a little less?
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
nurse|1304703948|2914084 said:
Dreamer_D|1304702083|2914049 said:
Are you set on a AVR? I ask because there is not much in that price range available right now from them :blackeye:
I am not necessarily set on AVR, but really want an OEC cut stone. I just decided going with GOG because they got great reviews, and seems like a 'safer' bet considering my knowledge and experience. I know I will pay a premium, but I feel like I am guaranteed a quality rock that will perform amazingly and also a great return policy if I don't like it...[snip]

unfortunately like you said, their selection in my price range is very limited and they just added new stock so if I want to take my chances I'll probably have to wait another few months or more (I don't think they restock very frequently) :(

Dreamer_D - when you had to return your stone, did you ship via Canada Post and how much on average did it cost you? (shipping/insurance/etc). GOG charges 100$ for international shipping so assuming it will be similar or a little less?
I returned something of lessor value, so this is a different case. You would need to use GOGs FedEx account to ship back to them (talk to them about this) and their insurance, because you cannot get insurance for jewelry or loose stones shipping internationally from Canada with Canada post that are over $1000 in value. Whenever I have sent something to the US to a vendor -- have done with two different vendors -- they have given me a shipping label and instructions on how to use it to ship via FedEx. It is not totally simple, but not totally hard either, and IMO worth it to figure it out to buy something from the US where you get good value for your money. But talk to GOG about this before you buy it to make sure they can accommodate you on return shipping.

So if you want an old cut stone, I agree that an AVR is the best way to go. Here is my concern for you -- I have been where you are wanting to get the best stone I can for my money. And to do that I have tried SI2 diamonds and I have tried K color diamonds, and for *me*, neither worked out. That may not be the case for you at all! You might love the slight warmth of a K color stone (it is not yellow at all, but is warm), or you might not be a nearsighted eagle eye like I am and might not see the inclusion in the SI2 (I prefer an SI2 inclusion that is prongable over one supposedly "hidden" by facets as I suspect that such inclusions are visible some times in some lights). But my instinct on this type of thing is to WAIT to find something that is mind clean for you, like an I Si1 in the size you want, or a J even, or else spend more to get something you really want. That is my lesson learned. Since you are worrying about the inclusion, my concern is that it might bug you and you will hunt for it. Same for K color, since you mention apprehension there too. Finding a "mind clean" stone is much harder than finding an eye clean stone remember!

For example, for $1000 more you could have this stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8236/ I know budgets, don't worry, but I also know sometimes it is worth stretching if you can to get something that is perfect, rather than compromising, especially with an e-ring.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
nurse|1304703948|2914084 said:
I did look at other places like old world diamonds but honestly felt overwhelmed. I had no idea where to begin looking at stones and how to translate their stats into how well they will perform. I did contemplate this stone for a while http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=645&SHAPE=EU&PAGE=7 but the EGL cert made me nervous.
EGL certs are very common with old stones, and though there are issues with EGL, with old stones I personally think this is less of a concern. Not sure how others feel. There have been many happy PS buyers from OWD, and there are some good old cut experts here on PS who could help you pick. OWD will also make a video of the stone, which will help a lot in assessing things. Maybe start a thread telling them your budget and preferences and linking some options, then see what comes up? I am not saying you should not buy from GOG or buy the SI2 you are considering -- I totally think it is worth seeing in person! -- but you could also explore OWD and options there to keep things open which you assess the GOG stone?
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Dreamer_D|1304705074|2914107 said:
nurse|1304703948|2914084 said:
Dreamer_D|1304702083|2914049 said:
So if you want an old cut stone, I agree that an AVR is the best way to go. Here is my concern for you -- I have been where you are wanting to get the best stone I can for my money. And to do that I have tried SI2 diamonds and I have tried K color diamonds, and for *me*, neither worked out. That may not be the case for you at all! You might love the slight warmth of a K color stone (it is not yellow at all, but is warm), or you might not be a nearsighted eagle eye like I am and might not see the inclusion in the SI2 (I prefer an SI2 inclusion that is prongable over one supposedly "hidden" by facets as I suspect that such inclusions are visible some times in some lights). But my instinct on this type of thing is to WAIT to find something that is mind clean for you, like an I Si1 in the size you want, or a J even, or else spend more to get something you really want. That is my lesson learned. Since you are worrying about the inclusion, my concern is that it might bug you and you will hunt for it. Same for K color, since you mention apprehension there too. Finding a "mind clean" stone is much harder than finding an eye clean stone remember!

For example, for $1000 more you could have this stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8236/ I know budgets, don't worry, but I also know sometimes it is worth stretching if you can to get something that is perfect, rather than compromising, especially with an e-ring.
Those are some good points, there are some si1 AVRs up but I think maybe too pricey for us. Our budget is about 5000$ when all is said and done (HST/shipping/setting). and so even with the stone we have now I feel like I am cutting it close. At the same time I really agree with your point about a little extra money will be worth it if it means it will be perfect for us!

Thanks so much for helping me out with this btw, it really helps being able to bounce ideas and options around. I will definitely keep the OWD you suggested in mind but probably won't bother them until we decided to buy/not buy. I would hate for someone to do all this work if they don't need to. BF is going to talk to the jeweller today and I'll see what the thinks when he gets home from work!
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
What setting are you getting? You can afford a mind clean stone if you get a simpler setting. That would be my choice, as the diamond is the most important part of the package.
 

Amys Bling

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
11,025
Dreamer_D|1304750156|2914633 said:
What setting are you getting? You can afford a mind clean stone if you get a simpler setting. That would be my choice, as the diamond is the most important part of the package.
I tend to agree with this... If my budget was tight I would go with a simple solitaire setting first (spend around 200 to 400 max) and put the rest to the stone. Then for an anniversary, or even a "birthday, anniversary, Christmas" gift one year ask for a setting more to your liking. This way you can have your cake and eat it too!!!
 

firemouse0747

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
7
Hello Nurse,

I know what your going through with deciding on purchasing a SI2 without physically seeing the stone; however, I recently bought a SI2 RB, 1.11, F, H&A from GOG a couple months ago: http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7732/ and wanted to share my experience working with GOG.

I would like to start by agreeing with everyone on PS that GOG is a stellar store that goes out of their way to reassure your happy with your purchase. I spent several months researching GOG and other online stores and after seeing how much information GOG makes available to you via the internet I decided to go with them. In addition, their store policies (i.e. return and trade-up policies) also put my mind at ease.

When I first saw my stone I was really hesitant to purchase it because when you look at the enlarged microscope images, the main inclusion looked like the Grand Canyon. I decided to inquire about the stone on PS and GOG and I reserved the stone so lurkers didnt pounce and take it from underneath me. Everyone on PS reassured me it was a great stone and the only person that could decide on how noticeable the inclusion stood out was only myself. I truly believe the same should be true for you too.

The following day I emailed GOG and Sarah quickly replied and stated that the stone was definitely eye clean from nine inches and even when held a couple inches from her eyes the inclusion was VERY hard to see because of its location within the facet structure. I also inquired about being eye clean from the side profile and she reassured me it was. I asked about the microscope pictures with how much magnification was used and she stated that it was taken between 40-65x magnification. She further stated that even though the stone was "eye clean" you could see the inclusion with a 10x loupe as you would with any SI2 included stone.

My mind still wasnt at ease because I couldnt personally see the stone so I decided to call GOG and I spoke with Charles who reassured me everything Sarah had orginally described. I then described the setting that I wanted the stone set in (custom micro pave GOG Petite Tiffany Novo with delicate prongs) and Charles said it would look beautiful.

Knowing GOG's store policies and the reputation from customer reviews via the internet and PS, I decided to purchase the stone and setting. Three weeks later, the little box arrived at my door and when I opened the box I could not be happier!! I opened the box afraid to see a the Grand Canyon and I couldnt even notice the inclusion. The quality of the stone and location of the inclusion nicely hid it. Everything Sarah and Charles said was true and with my eyes, it was perfect! When the light hits the stone it sparkles like a disco ball and I have shown many people the ring and no one has picked out the inclusion! They just comment how white and sparkly it is.

I am confident that you will be happy with your purchase and I would highly recommend working with GOG! Good luck and please post pictures of the final product once you make your decision!
 

marcy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
23,949
It really looks like a lovely diamond and if GOG says it's eye clean I would certainly believe them.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
marcy|1304786846|2914832 said:
It really looks like a lovely diamond and if GOG says it's eye clean I would certainly believe them.
I believe them too FWIW!

My only concern is that the OP might have a different preference for eye clean than is the technical definition.
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Dreamer_D|1304750156|2914633 said:
What setting are you getting? You can afford a mind clean stone if you get a simpler setting. That would be my choice, as the diamond is the most important part of the package.
The setting is all up to my bf, I showed him the designs I like and the rest is a surprise. The settings I chose were fairly simple though, one of them being a plain cathedral shank in a four prong double claw basket. I also liked the idea of having a small amount of pave on the sides (about 3/4 melee each side)

It will be set locally by a B&M (BF refuses to do the online thing) and so will probably end up paying more for that. C'est la vie.
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Firemouse, thank you so much for sharing your story!! Even though this doesn't guarantee that I will have the same experience as you, I am a little more hopeful :) Both of our inclusions are feathers, however if yours is the grand canyon, I feel like mine is the grand canyon, titanic and Hindenburg combined haha! Judging by the inclusion plots anyways. Anyways we decided to pull the trigger and with smooth customs/shipping I'll be oogling my stone next week!
 

nurse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 15, 2011
Messages
32
Dreamer_D|1304801622|2915034 said:
marcy|1304786846|2914832 said:
It really looks like a lovely diamond and if GOG says it's eye clean I would certainly believe them.
I believe them too FWIW!

My only concern is that the OP might have a different preference for eye clean than is the technical definition.

Thanks guys,

I honestly won't be able to tell if I'm going to be picky or not until I see the stone. From all that I've read about GOG I don't believe they would purposely mislead me but like Dreamer_D mentioned, eye clean is apparently very subjective. I honestly do not think I will be too picky but I'm reserving my right as a woman's prerogative to change my mind :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
nurse|1304814528|2915170 said:
Dreamer_D|1304801622|2915034 said:
marcy|1304786846|2914832 said:
It really looks like a lovely diamond and if GOG says it's eye clean I would certainly believe them.
I believe them too FWIW!

My only concern is that the OP might have a different preference for eye clean than is the technical definition.

Thanks guys,

I honestly won't be able to tell if I'm going to be picky or not until I see the stone. From all that I've read about GOG I don't believe they would purposely mislead me but like Dreamer_D mentioned, eye clean is apparently very subjective. I honestly do not think I will be too picky but I'm reserving my right as a woman's prerogative to change my mind :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
sounds good...keeping fingers crossed for you! I hope it works out!
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
slg47|1304814621|2915173 said:
nurse|1304814528|2915170 said:
Dreamer_D|1304801622|2915034 said:
marcy|1304786846|2914832 said:
It really looks like a lovely diamond and if GOG says it's eye clean I would certainly believe them.
I believe them too FWIW!

My only concern is that the OP might have a different preference for eye clean than is the technical definition.

Thanks guys,

I honestly won't be able to tell if I'm going to be picky or not until I see the stone. From all that I've read about GOG I don't believe they would purposely mislead me but like Dreamer_D mentioned, eye clean is apparently very subjective. I honestly do not think I will be too picky but I'm reserving my right as a woman's prerogative to change my mind :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
sounds good...keeping fingers crossed for you! I hope it works out!
Me too!

I would love to find a truly eye-clean *to me* SI2, it is such great value. I hope this is it for you!
 
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