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Not a good HCA score...what should I do?

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Murr4168

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Edit: Bumping up for Lorelei--here's the new stone we chose http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-27532.htm

Unfortunately my setting won't be ready for a couple of weeks but I'll post pics after her proposes :)


So, I put the numbers of the stone we decided on into the HCA because I am still a little worried about it even though WF said it was a beautiful stone. The HCA score came out as 3.8
with G-VG-G-VG. I was really wanting to see a better score in the light return category. I was looking for a stone with a lot of white sparkle. I don't know whether to keep looking or let my eyes decide. The problem is I won't see it before it's set and he proposes. I don't know what to do now
I know the HCA is just a guideline but I'm still a little freaked out.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-23765.htm#
 

ebonykawai

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
235
Well, don''t freak out, you can keep looking on WF if you want. Just call and let them know you''d like something with a better HCA score, if that''s your concern. I''m assuming nothing''s even been done yet on their end. If you need more time, that''s fine. It''s your money!
 

strmrdr

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23,295
This is why the HCA knocked it down, leakage under the table.
Personaly I wouldnt settle for that kind of performance.

ISGIA13114785.jpg
 

strmrdr

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23,295
Its visible in the 40x picture too.

DI40XGIA13114785.jpg
 

Regular Guy

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5,951
Not sure how far along you are, or how easy it would be to turn around. Some of your concerns had been anticipated. If you''ll turn around, the sooner the better.
 

Murr4168

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Regular Guy---I know I had these inital feelings about this stone. It''s just so stressful looking for stones and I''m ready to just be engaged already! But I also know that we won''t be upgrading for a very long time and I want this to be a stone I''ll be happy with. I trust WF and I know that I will ultimately be happy with this stone. And I also know that there are gorgeous non-ideal stones out there and this just might be one of them. My boyfriend just sent the credit card info late last night so I''m pretty sure we could easily turn around right now. I''ve emailed WF to see what they say. I just have this nagging feeling we could do better. In hindsight I should have never put the numbers in the HCA. If I''d just chosen a stone and never looked back, I think I''d be ok. It''s just scary to actually make a decision, I don''t want to regret it. As I said above, I won''t actually see the stone until it''s set, and by then there will be such an emotional attachment I''m afraid that I wouldn''t return it even if I didn''t LOVE it. Does that make any sense? Sometimes I wish I hadn''t been involved in this process at all! But my boyfriend wanted to be sure I''d love it and I love him for that.

Thanks everyone for their thoughts. I''m going to see what WF has to say.
 

Regular Guy

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Your BATNA, or alternative, could be this one. The cut quality tool here had been mentioned here the other day because primarily, it automates the use of the HCA evaluator. When I ran the numbers the other day, I did not include options below either .75 or SI1. But, since you''d selected an option between .7 and .75 and that''s SI 2 anyway, I revised your original criteria to include what you actually went with. This option is still under budget, based on wire pricing, at $2767.

Now, if your WF friends looked at both, and said they liked the original over this one for any reason....that''s another story.

Best of wishes!
 

ebonykawai

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I don''t know, Murr, I kind of disagree. I think you were perfectly right to put the numbers in the HCA. That''s what it''s there for: to help pick a good stone. I know it''s not easy choosing a good diamond. I changed my mind so many times before I got the one that is now on my finger, I''m certain I drove everyone mad!! But you know, you''re the one that is the consumer and it''s your money that''s being spent. I felt terribly guilty changing my mind the first couple times (LOL), but then I thought "Hey, after all , this is MY money and MY choice." Now I don''t care if I''m being high maintenance. I think jewelers encounter that more than you might think. It''s OK to be picky. You''re allowed to get what you want!

Best of luck, I hope everything works out great.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/16/2007 2:01:05 PM
Author: strmrdr
This is why the HCA knocked it down, leakage under the table.
Personaly I wouldnt settle for that kind of performance.
Agreed. There''s too many better choices out there.
 

Murr4168

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
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Regular Guy--I''ve asked WF to compare the two stones for me. I think that one looks gorgeous!! I feel much better about the HCA score and I think mentally I would feel more comfortable. Thanks!!!
 

Ellen

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Regular Guy

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Ellen, yes. Or this one, still getting an ACA. But it''s a slippery slope. I work best with limits. Only the first option mentioned above is strictly below the $2800 target. If it''s arbitrarily anal, so be it, and the slippery slope could allow several to be considered...all from WF.
 

Murr4168

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Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
101
I''m so excited!!! We decided to go with the 0.735 that Regular Guy posted!!! I spoke with Bob and he said that while the 0.74 is a pretty stone, it''s definitely worth it to switch to the H&A stone. And this one is eye clean as well.
I''m much more comfortable with this stone and I can''t wait to see it in person. Thanks!!!!
 

Regular Guy

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Ellen

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strmrdr

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congrates!

Good job RG!
 

Beacon

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I know I might be the slim minority here, BUT....

I just looked at a stone that is only 3.8 on HCA. It was really pretty. I had it next to mine that is 2.4 HCA and there wasn't much different to see. I thought this stone was going to be crappy cause of the bad HCA, but I really liked it. The appraiser I was looking with liked it too. The appraiser said both this 3.8 stone and the 2.4 stone had 95%+ light return. Both were GIA excellent cuts, but as we know, there is wide margin in those GIA excellents.

I would say see it in person and see if it's any good. You can always send it back. If it is a good price maybe it will be a good deal. If not a good price, then maybe throw it back in the pond. But I would give it a chance.

Oops, I just saw that you already decided - nevermind
 

JulieN

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Date: 2/16/2007 8:25:48 PM
Author: Beacon
I know I might be the slim minority here, BUT....

I just looked at a stone that is only 3.8 on HCA. It was really pretty. I had it next to mine that is 2.4 HCA and there wasn''t much different to see. I thought this stone was going to be crappy cause of the bad HCA, but I really liked it. The appraiser I was looking with liked it too. The appraiser said both this 3.8 stone and the 2.4 stone had 95%+ light return. Both were GIA excellent cuts, but as we know, there is wide margin in those GIA excellents.

I would say see it in person and see if it''s any good. You can always send it back. If it is a good price maybe it will be a good deal. If not a good price, then maybe throw it back in the pond. But I would give it a chance.

Oops, I just saw that you already decided - nevermind
And how did he measure that?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 2/16/2007 8:25:48 PM
Author: Beacon
I know I might be the slim minority here, BUT....

I just looked at a stone that is only 3.8 on HCA. It was really pretty. I had it next to mine that is 2.4 HCA and there wasn''t much different to see. I thought this stone was going to be crappy cause of the bad HCA, but I really liked it. The appraiser I was looking with liked it too. The appraiser said both this 3.8 stone and the 2.4 stone had 95%+ light return. Both were GIA excellent cuts, but as we know, there is wide margin in those GIA excellents.

I would say see it in person and see if it''s any good. You can always send it back. If it is a good price maybe it will be a good deal. If not a good price, then maybe throw it back in the pond. But I would give it a chance.

Oops, I just saw that you already decided - nevermind
Beacon do a side by side dirty diamond test - wear the 2 diamonds for a day or 2 in the same environment, or push them into blu tac or whatever you call the stuff you stick poster on the wall with (or grey or white plasticine).

then you will see the difference.
 

Beacon

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Oh boy! Hard to do it - the bad HCA one is locked in the vendor''s safe!

To be sure, I think the 2.4 HCA one was cut better. In the magnified lightbox views we did I could see that. But for me it was very hard to see the difference in the stones when they were just in normal unmagnified lighting. It did not dramatically lower the utility and beauty of the stone the way I feared it would.

Of course, they were perfectly clean - maybe that is the difference!
 

Beacon

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Date: 2/16/2007 8:31:38 PM
Author: JulieN

Date: 2/16/2007 8:25:48 PM
Author: Beacon
I know I might be the slim minority here, BUT....

I just looked at a stone that is only 3.8 on HCA. It was really pretty. I had it next to mine that is 2.4 HCA and there wasn''t much different to see. I thought this stone was going to be crappy cause of the bad HCA, but I really liked it. The appraiser I was looking with liked it too. The appraiser said both this 3.8 stone and the 2.4 stone had 95%+ light return. Both were GIA excellent cuts, but as we know, there is wide margin in those GIA excellents.

I would say see it in person and see if it''s any good. You can always send it back. If it is a good price maybe it will be a good deal. If not a good price, then maybe throw it back in the pond. But I would give it a chance.

Oops, I just saw that you already decided - nevermind
And how did he measure that?
Let''s see if I get this right: it was with a little bell shaped instrument that had 3 different colors on it, blue, red and green. I am sorry I forget what this is called. You peer into the magnified top of this thing and see the colors the diamond produces.

Hopefully this is the test that caused the appraiser to make the light return comments, otherwise it was a different test and I cannot be sure which test it was.
 

Fly Girl

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Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
7,312
Date: 2/16/2007 8:33:25 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 2/16/2007 8:25:48 PM
Author: Beacon
I know I might be the slim minority here, BUT....

I just looked at a stone that is only 3.8 on HCA. It was really pretty. I had it next to mine that is 2.4 HCA and there wasn''t much different to see. I thought this stone was going to be crappy cause of the bad HCA, but I really liked it. The appraiser I was looking with liked it too. The appraiser said both this 3.8 stone and the 2.4 stone had 95%+ light return. Both were GIA excellent cuts, but as we know, there is wide margin in those GIA excellents.

I would say see it in person and see if it''s any good. You can always send it back. If it is a good price maybe it will be a good deal. If not a good price, then maybe throw it back in the pond. But I would give it a chance.

Oops, I just saw that you already decided - nevermind
Beacon do a side by side dirty diamond test - wear the 2 diamonds for a day or 2 in the same environment, or push them into blu tac or whatever you call the stuff you stick poster on the wall with (or grey or white plasticine).

then you will see the difference.
My 1.50 F VS2 has an HCA of 2.8 (Good, Ex, Ex, Ex). It taught me years ago to keep it very clean. Every night it goes to bed in an ammonia-water bath. Otherwise, after a day or two it looks like a glob of dried handcream (which is probably because that is what it is covered with). Now from PS I''m realizing that I do this to compensate for the light return which apparently goes downhill very quickly.

I was comparing my stone to a 1.50 H SI1 Lazare Kaplan the other day, and my stone was doing pretty well. I could see a difference, but it wasn''t huge. Given that it would cost me many thousands of dollars to upgrade cut (and lose two color grades and one clarity grade) I decided to stick with my stone for now.

I''m don''t think it makes sense to spend a lot of extra money to upgrade to ideal cut just to wear a dirty diamond. That said, if buying new, I will be looking for ideal cut from now on.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
15,183
Date: 2/16/2007 8:46:05 PM
Author: Beacon

Date: 2/16/2007 8:31:38 PM
Author: JulieN


Date: 2/16/2007 8:25:48 PM
Author: Beacon
I know I might be the slim minority here, BUT....

I just looked at a stone that is only 3.8 on HCA. It was really pretty. I had it next to mine that is 2.4 HCA and there wasn''t much different to see. I thought this stone was going to be crappy cause of the bad HCA, but I really liked it. The appraiser I was looking with liked it too. The appraiser said both this 3.8 stone and the 2.4 stone had 95%+ light return. Both were GIA excellent cuts, but as we know, there is wide margin in those GIA excellents.

I would say see it in person and see if it''s any good. You can always send it back. If it is a good price maybe it will be a good deal. If not a good price, then maybe throw it back in the pond. But I would give it a chance.

Oops, I just saw that you already decided - nevermind
And how did he measure that?
Let''s see if I get this right: it was with a little bell shaped instrument that had 3 different colors on it, blue, red and green. I am sorry I forget what this is called. You peer into the magnified top of this thing and see the colors the diamond produces.

Hopefully this is the test that caused the appraiser to make the light return comments, otherwise it was a different test and I cannot be sure which test it was.
\Bad science

it is not a quantification instrument
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
My first question would be define 95%+ light return because it don''t exist.
If it did such a diamond would have no visible contrast and look like doggy doo.
 

tanalasta

Shiny_Rock
Premium
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Dec 28, 2006
Messages
323
Congratulations!


You rarely go wrong with an ACA. And if it''s eye clean ... you really saved money by choosing an SI2.

Show us the completed setting/e-ring when it''s done ;-)
 

MiniMouse

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Nov 30, 2004
Messages
1,015
Murr, you bumped for Lorelei, and I''m sure she''''ll be here soon - must be feeding the horses, the cats, the rabbits, the husband (not necessarily in that order, otherwise poor husband!)

RG, you picked a winner there, take a bow!
 

Lorelei

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Hehehe Min! I am here and good morning, the hungry horde is fed except for me! Thanks for the bumperooney Murr and Ira has done you proud!!!!
 
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