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Non branded H & A

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antcap51

Rough_Rock
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Mar 21, 2007
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Looked at a stone the other day the dealer said it would classify as a h & a. The GIA has it graded excellent in cut, polish, and symmetry. Looking through the h & a view - looks great to me- all hearts and arrows alligned. i am interested in the h & a cut so if I can find a non branded one that would be nice to save some $. Anything else i should look for to confirm that this could qualify to as h & a?


One more thing- do crown and pav angles influence the h & a?

This info is
crown ang -35
pav ang- 41.2
table - 57
depth-62.2

ct-2.04
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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The hearts are an important part of H&A, those need to fit the criteria and are a telling part of whether a diamond qualifies or not. I will post a useful link for you shortly. There are many important factors as to whether a diamond meets H&A standards, many diamonds can display this pattern but not be actual H&A diamonds. Also the internal symmetry of a diamond is very important for this type of cut. Just because a dealer says a diamond is a H&A cut doesn't necessarily make it so, read the link provided and this should help.

This link should answer your questions and the sub topics at the left of the page.

https://www.pricescope.com/hearts_indx.asp
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Here is the criteria for judging the hearts:
http://www.pricescope.com/hearts_grading_hearts.asp
heart001.jpg

Here's the criteria for the arrows:
http://www.pricescope.com/hearts_grading_arrows.asp

More info:
http://www.pricescope.com/hearts_phony.asp
badh.jpg

bada.jpg
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Argh! You caught me while I was still editing.
3.gif
I had to submit (save) it while typing so that all my "hard work" will not get lost.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 3/28/2007 8:36:29 AM
Author: Chrono
Argh! You caught me while I was still editing.
3.gif
I had to submit (save) it while typing so that all my 'hard work' will not get lost.
Sorry Chronie, that is a hazard, we are always on fire when we post at the same time it seems!!!!
41.gif
41.gif
41.gif
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
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In fairness to the seller, there is no official definition of how tight the patterns should be in order to be called "H&A."Your dealer is defining them as such so by his standards they are. You would need to have H&A photos to know if they qualify by other peoples' standards, if that is something which matters to you (it may not). The definitions Chrono posted are quite strict, which we feel is appropriate if a premium is being charged, but not everyone feels this way and no one is obligated to conform to those standards.

Some thoughts:

1. Readers should know that just because a diamond shows a H&A pattern (no matter how precise) does not mean it has premium light return. Light return is far more important. This diamond has good basic proportions so we can predict that it’s a good performer, but an ideal-scope or ASET image is helpful in terms of verifying performance, where H&A photos show only optical symmetry/craftsmanship.

2. In diamonds with top light return the benefits of precise optical symmetry are contrast and consistency in performance. Diamonds with a 'near' H&A level of optical symmetry often mimic effects seen in precisely cut ‘true’ H&A diamonds. On the other hand, some people prefer the random look of asymmetry in diamonds that are not close to a level of H&A precision (optical symmetry is not a requirement for diamond beauty).

3. With regard to value; a 'near-H&A' level of optical symmetry might be a by-product of cutting to top proportions; what some call a happy accident. Diamonds displaying the highest levels of optical symmetry; those crafted to the top levels of cut precision on-purpose, are valued by enthusiasts for their ultimate craftsmanship, as much as any effects on performance.

Here is a thread with more on this topic; graphics and examples.
 

antcap51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
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22
So if a diamond has excellent hearts and arrows and looks very good in the ideal-scope, rates excellent in polish, symmetry, and cut it is very cose to a un branded h & a?
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
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Sep 9, 2004
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5,212
Date: 3/28/2007 3:30:21 PM
Author: antcap51

So if a diamond has excellent hearts and arrows and looks very good in the ideal-scope, rates excellent in polish, symmetry, and cut it is very cose to a un branded h & a?
"Unbranded" only implies the diamond isn't being sold under a certain brand name. It has nothing to do with assessment of quality. An unbranded diamond advertised as H&A could be one of the most precisely cut on the planet - or it could be nowhere near the precision one feels a stone should have to be sold as "H&A."

If a diamond looks excellent in the ideal-scope/ASET that's a high priority indicator, as is a top cut grade from a major lab because these indicate performance. If it's being sold for a premium as a "H&A" stone you might want to get images of its hearts (you can use the ideal-scope to see arrows) to see if it has the level of precision you seek. "EX" in polish/symmetry often indicates care taken in its finish but does not always indicate a "H&A" level of patterning.

"Brands" of diamonds, like brands of automobiles, may be valued for name recognition - and hopefully consistency. Still, it's never a bad idea to investigate the details of the diamond, whether branded or not.
 
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