shape
carat
color
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Newbie searching for emerald

Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
3,301
Thank you so much for the recommendation of George Smith. I will have to check him out on Instagram. Is he for higher end emeralds? Are Columbian emeralds with good clarity out of my price range right now? If so, I'll keep his name for the future.

So I think the question is, what aspects are going to be more important to you? It looks like your budget is hovering around $6k at the higher end. And that's a healthy budget, especially for a new enthusiast! It's just that emeralds, in their finest qualities, are amongst the most expensive gems. So, some folks prefer a smaller stone of top tier quality (to stay on budget). Other folks would rather have the gem make a bold impression with a larger size, but they compromise on quality. And then there are folks who can have both within their budget. You may have to play around a bit with the 4 C's and come to a decision on which are most significant to you. George does sell premium Colombian stones. But he'll start out asking what you want and your budget. If he can make it work, he'll certainly give you some fantastic options, though they may be smaller than you initially desired. He's not the only show in town though, and as long as you have a certificate from a reputable lab, I would not be afraid to shop around. Hey, I've purchased some fantastic stones on ebay, my friend! You just never know. This is where trusting your eye also comes in to play. And I do like a few of your original Zambian options. Anyway, I hope this helps? Gem discussions can get pretty heady. lol

P.S. This is why that Leibish stone is so much larger than the others, but less expensive per carat. The saturation is really subpar, IMO, and that fissure running lengthwise could compromise the stone's integrity. So you want to look at everything as a whole, you know?
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
I don't think I have to go to George Muzo's Instagram to get into trouble - just reading your description about those pieces makes me start to melt ...

But I will not make the perfect be the enemy of the good! I'm just going to focus on the important points you mentioned in your second paragraph. Thank you for ending with the "let's rein it in" part! =)2
 
Joined
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Messages
3,301
Yes, there is always that danger! When the budget says, "preowned Lexus" and you spend too much time at the Bentley dealership, it leads to problems! :lol: It's very soothing to know there is hope for a beautiful emerald for those of us without an unlimited budget! Thank you for that reassurance. And thank you for the additional chemistry info - very informative!

Oh yeah, you can most definitely find a beautiful stone within your budget!!
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
3,301
I don't think I have to go to George Muzo's Instagram to get into trouble - just reading your description about those pieces makes me start to melt ...

But I will not make the perfect be the enemy of the good! I'm just going to focus on the important points you mentioned in your second paragraph. Thank you for ending with the "let's rein it in" part! =)2

This is so true. Perfection is a never-ending search... and it tends to suck the fun out of the experience (not to mention your purse). I've fallen victim to it for sure. My brother once told me the cutest story. He went to a sports memorabilia show with my dad when he was little. He picked out a model blue corvette, which he was super excited about. But as the day went on, he'd find something "wrong" with it, and bring it back to exchange for another. He did this 3 times. Eventually, he ended up with the first car. So now when I'm OCDing about something, he'll say to me, "don't blue corvette this!" lol

Anyway, I like what @T L said; she put it very simply. Buy the stone with the best combination of the 4 C's that your budget allows. That will be different for everyone, but I think you will do very well. I'm looking forward to seeing how your hunt progresses! Do keep us updated!! :)
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
So I think the question is, what aspects are going to be more important to you? It looks like your budget is hovering around $6k at the higher end. And that's a healthy budget, especially for a new enthusiast! It's just that emeralds, in their finest qualities, are amongst the most expensive gems. So, some folks prefer a smaller stone of top tier quality (to stay on budget). Other folks would rather have the gem make a bold impression with a larger size, but they compromise on quality. And then there are folks who can have both within their budget. You may have to play around a bit with the 4 C's and come to a decision on which are most significant to you. George does sell premium Colombian stones. But he'll start out asking what you want and your budget. If he can make it work, he'll certainly give you some fantastic options, though they may be smaller than you initially desired. He's not the only show in town though, and as long as you have a certificate from a reputable lab, I would not be afraid to shop around. Hey, I've purchased some fantastic stones on ebay, my friend! You just never know. This is where trusting your eye also comes in to play. And I do like a few of your original Zambian options. Anyway, I hope this helps? Gem discussions can get pretty heady. lol

P.S. This is why that Leibish stone is so much larger than the others, but less expensive per carat. The saturation is really subpar, IMO, and that fissure running lengthwise could compromise the stone's integrity. So you want to look at everything as a whole, you know?

Very good and useful points - thank you! I am quite sure now I need to look at stones in person to decide what's most important to me. I don't like to compromise too much on quality, so the size may have to go down. We'll see. I'm glad to know George works with a variety of budgets and that you have also found good stones on Ebay! That confidence obviously comes with education.

I'm just so surprised that the stones you liked were some of the lesser expensive ones on gemsny. It doesn't seem like the "you get what you pay for" necessarily applies with CS. That kind of threw me for a loop (in a good way, because it made me realize I can't just trust the price to guarantee a good stone). And it was also heartening to know that you can find decent quality without necessarily pushing the edge of the budget. But then there's the question of the amount of oiling vs. the other qualities of the stone. Oy!

The Seattle Gem Show is in Nov. It's not tomorrow, but at least I don't have to wait until next June! I think I'm confused enough not to move forward with an online purchase just yet. I'm trusting some in-person experience will help in addition to all the great education you and TL have already given me! Maybe one of the gemsny stones would be perfect for me. But without a little more in-person experience, I don't think I'll really know.

I'm living in at a new property and have been having to learn about gardening to take care of it. For all the research I've done online, I've discovered that nothing beats talking to people who know what they're doing and then getting out and trying it. Seems to be the same with gems. =)2
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
Oh I forgot to mention... whenever I've resold my stones, I've about broken even. Rarely have I ever actually made any profit. But I only resell to mitigate costs of new stones. A general rule of thumb is that gems are not very good investments. :boohoo:

That in itself seems impressive given the article I've read. Breaking even and putting the money into a new stone seems like success to me!
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
This is so true. Perfection is a never-ending search... and it tends to suck the fun out of the experience (not to mention your purse). I've fallen victim to it for sure. My brother once told me the cutest story. He went to a sports memorabilia show with my dad when he was little. He picked out a model blue corvette, which he was super excited about. But as the day went on, he'd find something "wrong" with it, and bring it back to exchange for another. He did this 3 times. Eventually, he ended up with the first car. So now when I'm OCDing about something, he'll say to me, "don't blue corvette this!" lol

Anyway, I like what @T L said; she put it very simply. Buy the stone with the best combination of the 4 C's that your budget allows. That will be different for everyone, but I think you will do very well. I'm looking forward to seeing how your hunt progresses! Do keep us updated!! :)

Thank you! If I tell my husband that story about the blue Corvette, I'm sure he'll be telling me not to blue Corvette things all the time!

Yes, I'll keep you updated on my progress. Thank you so much for your kind and generous help!!
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
24,824
“ I can't just trust the price to guarantee a good stone“

Agreed 10000%

Especially when it comes to colored stones. I’ve spent a fortune on crap, and very little on wonderful material. Education is key.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
3,301
Very good and useful points - thank you! I am quite sure now I need to look at stones in person to decide what's most important to me. I don't like to compromise too much on quality, so the size may have to go down. We'll see. I'm glad to know George works with a variety of budgets and that you have also found good stones on Ebay! That confidence obviously comes with education.

I'm just so surprised that the stones you liked were some of the lesser expensive ones on gemsny. It doesn't seem like the "you get what you pay for" necessarily applies with CS. That kind of threw me for a loop (in a good way, because it made me realize I can't just trust the price to guarantee a good stone). And it was also heartening to know that you can find decent quality without necessarily pushing the edge of the budget. But then there's the question of the amount of oiling vs. the other qualities of the stone. Oy!

The Seattle Gem Show is in Nov. It's not tomorrow, but at least I don't have to wait until next June! I think I'm confused enough not to move forward with an online purchase just yet. I'm trusting some in-person experience will help in addition to all the great education you and TL have already given me! Maybe one of the gemsny stones would be perfect for me. But without a little more in-person experience, I don't think I'll really know.

I'm living in at a new property and have been having to learn about gardening to take care of it. For all the research I've done online, I've discovered that nothing beats talking to people who know what they're doing and then getting out and trying it. Seems to be the same with gems. =)2

It's funny you would mention gardening, because that is a topic I know zero about and would love to learn! I have a black thumb. lol You also live in an area with such lush flora and fauna!!

Yeah, so that's where viewing gems in person is crucial. My critique of the stones you showed were based purely on the listing descriptions and photos. Who knows how they'd compare in person. I'm also super fussy about cut, so that always reduces my options dramatically. The stone may still be fine quality and priced accordingly, but windowing or excessive extinction will exclude it for me. That being said, again, I am confident you will find a stone within your budget (in a decent size) that gets your heart racing. I want to hear from you in November! ;-)
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Sep 20, 2008
Messages
24,824
Speaking of tsavorite, If you don’t mind flat green color, but want beautiful sparkle and clarity, and added durability, tsavorite is a nice option. Most people will think it’s an emerald too, except people that really know emeralds.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Sep 20, 2008
Messages
24,824
Has anyone bought from this dealer before? They have great prices for high end stones, and this one is in the price range of the OP, very clean. It is medium tone and strong saturation to my eye. Really gorgeous and great cutting too. Supposedly no treatment!!

 

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Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
“ I can't just trust the price to guarantee a good stone“

Agreed 10000%

Especially when it comes to colored stones. I’ve spent a fortune on crap, and very little on wonderful material. Education is key.

Whoa - that is very powerful information. Thank you so much for that confirmation. That will get me not to make a purchase for a while!! We all make mistakes in life. My dad told me that if you can make decisions based on partial information (which is always the case) and get 60% of them right, you'll be successful.

I'm so humbly thankful for you and Autumn in New England helping me with this gem story.

Also, I'm totally new to forums like these (for anything). So I've just been figuring out that I should have been "liking" the comments all along rather than just replying to them. I've remedied that now!
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
It's funny you would mention gardening, because that is a topic I know zero about and would love to learn! I have a black thumb. lol You also live in an area with such lush flora and fauna!!

Yeah, so that's where viewing gems in person is crucial. My critique of the stones you showed were based purely on the listing descriptions and photos. Who knows how they'd compare in person. I'm also super fussy about cut, so that always reduces my options dramatically. The stone may still be fine quality and priced accordingly, but windowing or excessive extinction will exclude it for me. That being said, again, I am confident you will find a stone within your budget (in a decent size) that gets your heart racing. I want to hear from you in November! ;-)

Well, I wish I were the gardening expert to help you out, but I think you'll have to wait for that as well! Not to go too off-topic, but I managed to kill my first herb garden (supposedly easier to grow than veggies) because I think I planted them where there was just too much shade from trees (I was too tempted by the spot because it was already a raised bed). In any event, I'm starting with lavender and Knock-out roses because they are supposed to be easy. But a short hot spell nearly decimated my tiny lavender plants as well! I will say that finding a local person who was recommended to me has made a huge difference. She gently told me why my plans (that I researched online by reading articles) weren't so great for my yard. Experts and trial-and-error seem to be the keys! I'm so grateful for you and TL coming to my rescue with emeralds!

Now that I know a bit about cut, I will probably end up being fussy about it as well. It's good to know one's preferences and biases. Thank you for your heartening wishes and confidence-increasing words! I do plan to be back in touch. =)2
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
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Whoa - that is very powerful information. Thank you so much for that confirmation. That will get me not to make a purchase for a while!! We all make mistakes in life. My dad told me that if you can make decisions based on partial information (which is always the case) and get 60% of them right, you'll be successful.

I'm so humbly thankful for you and Autumn in New England helping me with this gem story.

Also, I'm totally new to forums like these (for anything). So I've just been figuring out that I should have been "liking" the comments all along rather than just replying to them. I've remedied that now!

No problem, you satiated my need to gush over emeralds. Now I better not get in trouble!!:Up_to_something:$$$:twisted:
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
Speaking of tsavorite, If you don’t mind flat green color, but want beautiful sparkle and clarity, and added durability, tsavorite is a nice option. Most people will think it’s an emerald too, except people that really know emeralds.

My husband actually has a couple tsavorites that he bought years ago (no research, just bought them from a jeweler recommended to us). They are very clear and beautiful. But I probably don't have to explain to this group that when you've got your heart set on an emerald, nothing else will make it sing quite the same way ...
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
24,824
My husband actually has a couple tsavorites that he bought years ago (no research, just bought them from a jeweler recommended to us). They are very clear and beautiful. But I probably don't have to explain to this group that when you've got your heart set on an emerald, nothing else will make it sing quite the same way ...

The problem is that most people only see cloudy ugly emeralds, but yes, once you see a fine emerald……sigh!

Tsavorite is beautiful, but when it comes to emerald, I’m just a puddle of saliva.
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
Has anyone bought from this dealer before? They have great prices for high end stones, and this one is in the price range of the OP, very clean. It is medium tone and strong saturation to my eye. Really gorgeous and great cutting too. Supposedly no treatment!!


That stone looks beautiful! Thank you so much! My only hesitation for this one (aside from the fact that I don't have proper education to evaluate stones yet) is that I really want an oval-shaped emerald. Picky, I know! And I do actually find the emerald cut really gorgeous - it's just that for this particular purchase, I'm pretty set on an oval. Thank you so much for finding this seller! I will definitely keep a note of them. =)2
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
The problem is that most people only see cloudy ugly emeralds, but yes, once you see a fine emerald……sigh!

Tsavorite is beautiful, but when it comes to emerald, I’m just a puddle of saliva.

Yeah, me, too!

Sigh, swoon, pick me up off the floor if you can, I'll never be the same again ... :kiss2:
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
3,301
Has anyone bought from this dealer before? They have great prices for high end stones, and this one is in the price range of the OP, very clean. It is medium tone and strong saturation to my eye. Really gorgeous and great cutting too. Supposedly no treatment!!


No, but :kiss2:.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
3,301
Whoa - that is very powerful information. Thank you so much for that confirmation. That will get me not to make a purchase for a while!! We all make mistakes in life. My dad told me that if you can make decisions based on partial information (which is always the case) and get 60% of them right, you'll be successful.

I'm so humbly thankful for you and Autumn in New England helping me with this gem story.

Also, I'm totally new to forums like these (for anything). So I've just been figuring out that I should have been "liking" the comments all along rather than just replying to them. I've remedied that now!

This is the only forum of which I am a member! I normally loathe social media and the like!! I'm so happy this thread proved to be helpful for you. I can't wait to see what you eventually decide on.
cleader.gif
 
Joined
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Messages
3,301
Well, I wish I were the gardening expert to help you out, but I think you'll have to wait for that as well! Not to go too off-topic, but I managed to kill my first herb garden (supposedly easier to grow than veggies) because I think I planted them where there was just too much shade from trees (I was too tempted by the spot because it was already a raised bed). In any event, I'm starting with lavender and Knock-out roses because they are supposed to be easy. But a short hot spell nearly decimated my tiny lavender plants as well! I will say that finding a local person who was recommended to me has made a huge difference. She gently told me why my plans (that I researched online by reading articles) weren't so great for my yard. Experts and trial-and-error seem to be the keys! I'm so grateful for you and TL coming to my rescue with emeralds!

Now that I know a bit about cut, I will probably end up being fussy about it as well. It's good to know one's preferences and biases. Thank you for your heartening wishes and confidence-increasing words! I do plan to be back in touch. =)2

My dear friend is a certified master gardener. Even with her assistance, I am hopeless. It's too bad, because I really do love it! It's so relaxing and a great opportunity to commune with nature.
461745c4zwglu3s4.gif


I'm sorry your herb garden didn't work out, but it sounds like you've got things under control now! Mmm I looove lavender everything.

Some collectors get really into cut with table and depth percentages, etc., and tend to prefer all or most of their gems to be precision faceted. While I do love custom cuts whenever they happen to work out for what I'm after, I'm not quite that fussy. All I ask is that there be no windowing, and as little extinction (dark areas) as possible. I simply judge by the eye, although math certainly plays a part. Windowing is probably my #1 pet peeve of collecting.
 
Joined
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Messages
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That stone looks beautiful! Thank you so much! My only hesitation for this one (aside from the fact that I don't have proper education to evaluate stones yet) is that I really want an oval-shaped emerald. Picky, I know! And I do actually find the emerald cut really gorgeous - it's just that for this particular purchase, I'm pretty set on an oval. Thank you so much for finding this seller! I will definitely keep a note of them. =)2

The nice thing about ovals, as you probably know, is that, in general, you will get a bigger bang for your buck regarding size-to-weight ratio... even more so if you like rounds, pears, or marquises. Although emeralds are nearly impossible to find in marquises (which I dislike anyway) and not often seen in rounds. Speaking of which, this is why emeralds (and the beryl family as a whole) are such fun gems. They are less dense than most other precious stones. So a 2ct. emerald, all things being equal, will appear much larger than a comparable ruby, sapphire, or diamond. Cool, right?! My emerald is only 2ct. and well-cut, but it is a 9x7mm emerald-cut! And emerald-cuts require more weight in the pavilion, so they cut smaller than an oval.
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
My dear friend is a certified master gardener. Even with her assistance, I am hopeless. It's too bad, because I really do love it! It's so relaxing and a great opportunity to commune with nature.
461745c4zwglu3s4.gif


I'm sorry your herb garden didn't work out, but it sounds like you've got things under control now! Mmm I looove lavender everything.

Some collectors get really into cut with table and depth percentages, etc., and tend to prefer all or most of their gems to be precision faceted. While I do love custom cuts whenever they happen to work out for what I'm after, I'm not quite that fussy. All I ask is that there be no windowing, and as little extinction (dark areas) as possible. I simply judge by the eye, although math certainly plays a part. Windowing is probably my #1 pet peeve of collecting.

Very interesting! It sounds like there is a realm between precision faceting/custom cuts (are these the same?) and commercial or native cuts. Is that a correct understanding? I do know that beauty doesn't require absolute mathematical precision, so what you like might be just right for me.
 

Venus8

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 16, 2022
Messages
34
The nice thing about ovals, as you probably know, is that, in general, you will get a bigger bang for your buck regarding size-to-weight ratio... even more so if you like rounds, pears, or marquises. Although emeralds are nearly impossible to find in marquises (which I dislike anyway) and not often seen in rounds. Speaking of which, this is why emeralds (and the beryl family as a whole) are such fun gems. They are less dense than most other precious stones. So a 2ct. emerald, all things being equal, will appear much larger than a comparable ruby, sapphire, or diamond. Cool, right?! My emerald is only 2ct. and well-cut, but it is a 9x7mm emerald-cut! And emerald-cuts require more weight in the pavilion, so they cut smaller than an oval.

I didn't know any of that, so this is very useful! So much to learn. Excited for my gigantic 1.5 carat future emerald. ;)2

Also, just to close the loop, I did hear back from gemsny since I contacted them before any discussion about the F2 treatment on those two stones. Here's the video they sent:

Stone on the left is E3950AOV
Stone on the right is E3932DOV


Just out of curiosity (and because it will give us a better idea if the original gemsny images reflected reality), what do you think of these stones now?

Also, I later emailed the person from gemsny to ask about enhancements. He said, "F1 is minor, F2 is average and F3 is moderate treatment. F2 means the stone is treated more than minor, with cedar oil, whereas F3 may include heavy cedar oil and in some cases, resin."

What do you think of these statements, and is it generally recommended to avoid F2 cedar oil enhancements?
 

Eli22

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
543
I have no knowledge to add to this thread, except to say: you are doing the absolutely right thing by doing your research and listening to TL & Autumn’s advice. I was in your shoes- wanting to obtain my first ever emerald quickly to commemorate a significant occasion (in this case, my 40th birthday). In my hurry to “get it done in time for X date” - I totally forgot to consult PS and do my research on what makes a good emerald. I went strictly with what I thought “looked nice” via photos/videos and we commissioned a ring.

Thankfully, I did OK with my purchase (or my husband’s purchase haha), though I wish I had entered the transaction better informed on all things emerald. I know this is a “starter” emerald for me and I look forward to a future emerald (my husband doesn’t know it yet, but he’s gifting me one for my 45th haha :razz:)

Take your time, look at as many emeralds as you can in person and read read read! Good luck on your search! 50C2ED28-F14B-4AC1-88FD-AEE8D7DD135A.jpeg
 
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