newbie question

[proto]

Hi

this forum is incredibly helpful, but are some posters working for websites and making commission?

I mean, the advice available here for free is incredible, but just curious since most forums dont devote this much time and energy to helping others with finding things. I would have paid good money for most of the advice on pricescope forums!

 

[pyramid]

Welcome to the forum Proto.

I can't answer you, but I have been debating this myself now for a few months after years of believing it was just laypeople here.

Some posters are just spending all their time, like every night all their time here I have been noticing.

 

[Niel]

Well I'm not. And PS rules say you aren't suppose to be getting kickbacks. but then again who knows.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

That is not allowed on this forum. I assume most who help are like me and jewelry and this forum are our hobby. I came here originally looking for a diamond for our anniversary and just stayed. There are a lot of nice people here who share the interest in fine quality diamonds and jewelry, and we enjoy helping other people buy the best quality diamonds and settings. If a person works for a vendor, they are not allowed to help people choose diamonds. They can comment on idealscope images that are not identified as to vendor and that's about it.

 

[tyty333]

I spend a lot of time on PS and love to help. Its not easy to spend sooo much money on something that you've never seen in
person. A lot of our posters are new and just starting out in life. Everyone deserves to get the best bang for the buck.
Wish I had found PS 16 years ago when I was looking for my stone.

I am a SAHM so I do have spare time on my hands plus I'd much rather be on PS then cleaning the house!

So, no, I do not get paid or get any "favors" from any vendors. I dont even know any of them in person and I'm pretty sure
they dont know me. I do have my favorite vendors but will recommend from about anyone who has a nice stone at a decent price.
I give my honest opinion (and try to back it up with why) even when it differs from the majority on PS.

Welcome to PS

 

[TC1987]

No, they don't make commissions. If they are, then they are supposed to be registered as Trade, and you see that under their avatar. Are the people you speak of Trade? They'd have a reason to be here "all day." Trade people can't comment on diamonds, but they can give general recommendations.

Some non-trade people watch inventory religiously because they are hunting specific diamonds for themselves, friends, family, or coworkers. Your inquiry just might dovetail with one of their searches, so they give you what they have seen.

Some, like me, drop in a few times during the day.

Some others may have jobs that keep them sitting by a computer all day, so they are able to drop in periodically.

But unless you analyze each individual posters times, how can you say "they are in here all had?" You can't.

 

[pyramid]

I just remember the previous board before Pricescope which was called Diamondtalk nothing to do with Pricescope but it was the biggest diamond forum. Well Pricescope was growing and a certain vendor there was saying pricescope was full of shills because one of the vendors here in particular had shills working for them who were the writers on pricescope. Now maybe they were just satisfied customers, I don't know. It was all over the internet and yet later this same vendor from Diamondtalk became a vendor on pricescope and then was banned.

If you joined Pricescope and they knew it was you, same name or whatever, you mentioned about something over at Pricescope, then you got banned from Diamondtalk.com.

Sometimes although there is a lot of parroting that goes on here , it does appear that posts are
written in the same tone as though by the same person or persons. Yes some people want to help young people starting out
and get no commision but the vendors are racking up the dollars due to your efforts. Must be easier than working a brick & mortar as not many people on the street giving recommendations are going to spend the time analysing the way it goes on here.
Pity those who spend so long recommending stones are not working for themselves as it seems they are giving away thousands of dollars for their effort to other peoples businesses. I don't like to see people being used. If they are happy though it is up to them.

I just hope people are not doing this to cover up something else that is hurting them, and that they would seek proper medical attention if they are! e.g. I mean like depression and such.
There have been people over the years who have spent years and moved on, see I have been here for ever although not every day.

These people before had other things which took them away, e.g. Mara had a baby. There were a few though such as Lorelei who became a worker for one of the vendors and had their name linked below here signature and then disappeared. She was one of the posters who was always on here and had a great interest in diamonds. So what happened there. You don't just lose an interest like that. Many people left at that time. Basically all the vendors stopped really answering questions and the people from normal life started answering people and took on the title of the experts which used to be reserved for vendors only. Now people post they want to ask the experts and get answers from interested hobby people but not experts or qualified gemologists. POSTERS READ OLD POSTS ASKING THE EXPERTS A QUESTION AND THINK IT IS THE SAME PEOPLE ANSWERING THEM AS DID THE OLDER POSTERS BUT THE EXPERTS HAVE ALL GONE NOW.

There were many who all of a sudden left due to the Version 2 Pricescope coming online. Now I am not a computer expert but I thought that was just another application version although more pictures appeared. I have been left wondering why Version 2 made so many people disappear. I have asked more than once why that was the case but no one has answered me. Why did so
many people leave when Version 2 came online? There must be something which happened that other people were not privy too?

 

[pyramid]

Maybe I have answered my own question. I wonder if people all left because there were no experts left here to answer questions as they were all stopped from speaking about other vendors stones. So people who had the hobby just left as there was no one better qualified to answer their questions than themselves. Those who stayed just stayed to help newbies.

 

[Gypsy]

This forum does not pay it's non-trade anything. Not in any way shape or form. So no kickbacks, commissions... nothing. The vendors who advertise here and those who do not advertise but are recommended on here also do not pay the non-trade posters anything in any way shape or form. Yes, the non-trade posters do make the trade members lots of money out of the goodness of their hearts. Is that annoying? Honestly? Yes, sometimes it is.

As for whether or not you are really trade. That is on the honor system, for the most part. Those posters who are in the trade have a different set of rules than those who are not. One of those rules is that they bear the "trade" badge on their posts.

Like Diamondseeker, I post on here a lot. Sometimes I take long breaks (many months) sometimes I'm more active (nearly every night). This is an active period for me. After a while I'll get burned out or my life will get busier and I'll stop posting as much, or at all. And then after a while again, I'll come back.

It's not some kind of medical condition. LOL! This relaxes me and I enjoy it. Some people garden and root around in dirt, some people post to help others find diamonds.

As one of our posters says, "people vary."

 

[GeorgeStevens]

Advice is worth what you pay for it, and usually less. So it's generally safe to assume people are trying to sell you something. As I write this there's a big banner ad a few pixels away touting a company who are recommended by a lot of people here and a presumably expensive technology that may or may not actually be useful. Are they highly recommended because they're really the best vendor or because they advertise a lot and people use them and it creates a self-reinforcing cycle? I don't know. But I don't assume that a particular vendor highly recommended here is any more likely to meet my needs than a vendor who isn't so highly touted or who has a relatively modest presence. Take into consideration what others say, but do your own research too.

My two cents to people buying for the first time: remember that diamonds are a natural product. Unlike manufactured goods, nearly all diamonds have flaws. Diamond miners push onto cutters & polishers both the good stones and the bad ones, all in one parcel. So diamond sellers and retailers need to push to consumers both the good stones and the lousy ones. Good stones sell easily and lousy ones remain in inventory. The more you know, the more likely you are to snap up a good stone when it comes available or at least be able to haggle down the price of a lousy stone that is good enough for your purposes.

 

[msop04]

It's not some kind of medical condition. LOL! This relaxes me and I enjoy it. Some people garden and root around in dirt, some people post to help others find diamonds.
As one of our posters says, "people vary."

Will someone please tell my husband this??? LOL

 

[msop04]

I just hope people are not doing this to cover up something else that is hurting them, and that they would seek proper medical attention if they are! e.g. I mean like depression and such.

Ummmm.... HUH???

Basically all the vendors stopped really answering questions and the people from normal life started answering people and took on the title of the experts which used to be reserved for vendors only.[/color] Now people post they want to ask the experts and get answers from interested hobby people but not experts or qualified gemologists. POSTERS READ OLD POSTS ASKING THE EXPERTS A QUESTION AND THINK IT IS THE SAME PEOPLE ANSWERING THEM AS DID THE OLDER POSTERS BUT THE EXPERTS HAVE ALL GONE NOW.

I think people say "experts" because they know they need help, not because they think these people are actually experts in the trade... at least that was my impression. Compared to my knowledge, I would consider many on here to be experts, per se.

 

[WinkHPD]

<SNIP>

These people before had other things which took them away, e.g. Mara had a baby. There were a few though such as Lorelei who became a worker for one of the vendors and had their name linked below here signature and then disappeared. She was one of the posters who was always on here and had a great interest in diamonds. So what happened there. You don't just lose an interest like that. Many people left at that time. Basically all the vendors stopped really answering questions and the people from normal life started answering people and took on the title of the experts which used to be reserved for vendors only. Now people post they want to ask the experts and get answers from interested hobby people but not experts or qualified gemologists. POSTERS READ OLD POSTS ASKING THE EXPERTS A QUESTION AND THINK IT IS THE SAME PEOPLE ANSWERING THEM AS DID THE OLDER POSTERS BUT THE EXPERTS HAVE ALL GONE NOW.
<SNIP>

Gosh, and here I thought there were a few left. I certainly consider John Pollard an expert and am constantly badgering him to post more. Paul Slegers can also be badgered into posting a few times a year. Jonathon at Good old Gold is not as active as he used to be but he is still here. One of the top jewelry appraisers in the world, let alone the US, Neil Beaty, posts here in appraisal related threads. Let's not forget David Atlas and Garry Holloway, even though I love to disagree with him at times, and, oh, Karl K who is a diamond designer who started out so long ago as a consumer, took part in the cut wars of some years ago, became a prosumer and finally entered into the trade. Hmmm, who am I forgetting? David Friedlander of Diamonds by Lauren, knows more about colored diamonds than I ever will and shares that knowledge freely with all who ask.

These are just the ones I think of in the last forty seconds that are on top of mind today. There are more, some of them in the colored stone forum, that I should dig deeper and mention, lest they back me into a corner at the JCK show in two weeks to smack me around a little for not mentioning them.

It may be harder for experts to post these days as there are more rules than in the beginning, but I personally think the rules have gone far to keep this place safe for one and all. Yes, we trade members will not help you select from two or three diamonds when the vendor's name is revealed or on the photos supplied unless we are correcting a misstatement of fact or answering a direct question about the photo, such as, why are the arrows on this picture wider than on that picture. That way a vendor can not attempt to derail the sale of a competitor, but can correct a falsehood that is posted by someone who is pushing that diamond for what ever reason.

Some of the experts who are gone are simply too busy to spend the time now that they once did when they were honing their understanding of cut during the cut wars. Some left for other reasons, but many of them are still here and helping people nearly every day because they enjoy doing so.

Please do not count them all gone yet!

Wink

 

[tyty333]

<snip>
I just hope people are not doing this to cover up something else that is hurting them, and that they would seek proper medical attention if they are! e.g. I mean like depression and such.
There have been people over the years who have spent years and moved on, see I have been here for ever although not every day.


<snip>
There were many who all of a sudden left due to the Version 2 Pricescope coming online. Now I am not a computer expert but I thought that was just another application version although more pictures appeared. I have been left wondering why Version 2 made so many people disappear. I have asked more than once why that was the case but no one has answered me. Why did so
many people leave when Version 2 came online? There must be something which happened that other people were not privy too?

We have kidnapped all early PSers and have secreted them away never to post again! Aha! You have figured us out!

No, really, why the conspiracy theories? The real experts disappeared and those left may have mental issues? Really seems
odd that you would come up with this.

 

[MollyMalone]

Hi
this forum is incredibly helpful, but are some posters working for websites and making commission?
I mean, the advice available here for free is incredible, but just curious since most forums dont devote this much time and energy to helping others with finding things. I would have paid good money for most of the advice on pricescope forums!

PS isn't alone in this respect. Lurk for awhile on some of the most active TripAdvisor boards -- like the NYC forum -- and you'll see "just folks" spending lots of time and energy to come up with sightseeing deals for budget-conscious travelers; sharing a wealth of hotel information, including recommendations for properties that are available for requested dates; suggesting alternatives to restaurants that out-of-towners think are "musts", but which are now coasting on their past reputation; etc., etc.

So that, plus my experience with some other 'net forums where generosity of spirit abounds, is why I don't assume -- as GeorgeStevens does -- that free advice is generally worthless [which makes me wonder why he thinks you are going to pay any attention to his ] & that 'net forum volunteers are almost always motivated by pecuniary self-interest..

As for why certain of the online diamond vendors receive more reco's on this particular board than others do: think most of that can be chalked up to the fact that those vendors cater to those people who
(a) are first-time diamond buyers, in the market for an engagement ring, i.e., most of the drive-through traffic in the Rocky Talk forum
(b) don't want to spend time-money ordering, and returning, diamonds to see them first-hand -- likely to consider it an unwelcome nuisance to exchange e-mail correspondence with a vendor who doesn't have photographs/videos & independent lab reports posted on the web site
(c) like the optical science reflected in ASETs, etc.
(d) want a more-or-less "sure bet" right off the bat, because they have a deadline and/or have little to no interest in a more drawn-out process.

Those needs/priorities aren't my own when it comes to buying gems or gemstone jewelry online, and it doesn't seem they are GeorgeSteven's either. But one or more of them may be why you (proto) purchased a diamond from James Allen?

 

[heididdl]

I love reading the posts, I enjoy seeing what people are wearing. I love jewelry and I chime in when I feel I have something to say. I think for the most part people are here to help. I do get envious of some of the rings...I wish I had the funds to do more personal projects. But since I can't I will happily live vicariously through you all..... Finally I think it is so cool when newbies come on and really want to get a beautiful ring for their girl. My husband had no clue and was happy just to get me anything. So it gives me the chills when a guy cares enough to learn about his purchase.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi

this forum is incredibly helpful, but are some posters working for websites and making commission?

I mean, the advice available here for free is incredible, but just curious since most forums dont devote this much time and energy to helping others with finding things. I would have paid good money for most of the advice on pricescope forums!

If that was true then I have a big paycheck coming my way..

 

[TC1987]

As for why certain of the online diamond vendors receive more reco's on this particular board than others do: think most of that can be chalked up to the fact that those vendors cater to those people who
(a) are first-time diamond buyers, in the market for an engagement ring, i.e., most of the drive-through traffic in the Rocky Talk forum
(b) don't want to spend time-money ordering, and returning, diamonds to see them first-hand -- likely to consider it an unwelcome nuisance to exchange e-mail correspondence with a vendor who doesn't have photographs/videos & independent lab reports posted on the web site
(c) like the optical science reflected in ASETs, etc.
(d) want a more-or-less "sure bet" right off the bat, because they have a deadline and/or have little to no interest in a more drawn-out process.

(e) have upgrade / buyback / tradein policies that are better than average. Example, just to make something up: You can trade your diamond in on ANY diamond that cost as much or more than the one you are trading in and we buy back at 75%, vs. You can only trade your diamond in on a diamond that cost 2x or more than the price of the diamond you are trading in and we don't buy back diamonds.

I'd much rather buy from the first vendor than the second one. Not all vendors on PS have the same policies and restrictions.

--------------------------------

Pricescope I vs. Pricescope 2: Didn't the management of PS1 go on some kind of spree and ban people with whom the management disagreed? And then a lot who disagreed with the bans left in disgust or protest and just never came back?

 

[GeorgeStevens]

Agree with the two posts above.

(f) They work with customers who like older styles, antiques, etc., and want to do the designing themselves. Some of the best vendors and designers in the jewelry business are folks like VCA, Verdura, Graff, and Bulgari, who receive essentially zero mentions on this forum.

I do think there are people who have useful things to say that aren't selling anything. They are not abundant anywhere. So I think you should generally assume that advice-givers probably have some sort of self-interest that it's helpful to understand. Yes, I'm aware of the irony of this statement.

 

[Sunstorm]

Well, ok here it comes from a trade person. First and foremost I am a gemologist and diamonds have been my passion my whole life. I do own many diamonds and I have a relatively new business trading diamonds and custom designing jewelry but for months on here I did not even post my website. I have advised people on the diamonds they selected objectively and never promoted my own but told them what I thought and sometimes that was very positive opinion. I have given general advice as well. Why do I do this? I am aware of course and none of us are stupid that for many in the trade this is part of marketing; however, even if I was not even allowed to post my website, I would be here because I love this forum and because first and foremost diamonds and jewelry in particular are my passion, more than a hobby; my lifestyle. I get up every day to check threads and posts, it can easily become almost an addiction for those of us who love stones and jewelry, trade or not. I never tried to tell people when I helped them to come to me to buy, they could not even as I did not have my contacts up for months; perhaps I am in the minority but mostly I try to educate people because I hate the idea of people getting ripped off; most of my clients come from people I personally know anyhow.

That said I have noticed that there are online vendors here that have made their fortune on this forum in a large part. I sometimes notice people vehemently defending and promoting certain vendors and I have wondered myself too whether they are getting something in return because let's be honest these vendors have gotten tons of customers just from this forum, they even offer PS discounts. Other vendors here do contribute and I think this is very positive but they are much more quiet about promoting themselves and I like this modesty, others recommend them but not as vehemently and not only them. There are some really knowledgable vendors here, great people and I not only do not mind, I am happy about it. I think it benefits all of us and we can even learn a great deal from each other.

So me personally I am mostly here to share, to help, to learn and to enjoy myself. And may I say it feels great that we can make some virtual friendships and share our ideas, opinions, interest? I am happy if someone likes what I have because I love it myself and I really appreciate feedback, not necessarily to sell anything to people but to know I am on the right track and I do keep many designs I make for myself and often create custom for others. I would hate the idea of anyone being pushed in a certain direction and sometimes it is my feeling that this does happen here but also that it cannot be avoided after all good vendors should be recommended and perhaps they are all honest recommendations based on the experience they have had and that does benefit does looking to buy a great deal. I am happy for a good vendor if they are recommended.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I would hate the idea of anyone being pushed in a certain direction and sometimes it is my feeling that this does happen here but also that it cannot be avoided after all good vendors should be recommended and perhaps they are all honest recommendations based on the experience had and that does benefit does looking to buy a great deal. I am happy for a good vendor if they are recommended.

I'd only recommend vendors whom I have had good experiences with in the past.

 

[Sunstorm]

Dancing Fire I totally believe you, please do not take it personally, for sure I did not mean you in particular, in fact I have no idea which vendors you normally recommend. I just mean that I have seen certain people being very adamant about pushing others to buy from a certain source, while others may also be as good if not better. It just so happens that certain vendors thus become very fashionable here. I also have to add that I really like what some vendors on here have and agree a lot with what they say and stand for. I guess they are just not the very commercial ones most the time. We are all subjective after all we are people. Nothing against anyone in particular and for sure I have not seen you ever being pushy on here. Sorry about my typos in the last post too.

 

[Sunstorm]

One more thing I wanted to add Dancing Fire, I did mention that people may be here because they genuinely care and want to help and as I have stated that was my main reason to be here as well so why would most people like you have any other reason? I am absolutely positive that is not the case in most cases. To contradict myself a bit I am also not saying that anyone here gets commission but if they do not then certain vendors are very fortunate that others are doing the work for them.)

 

[pyramid]

I should ask you that question, as you made it a conspiracy theory by putting the two into one sentence!?

There is no conspiracy theory on my part just the fact that the vendors used to answer all questions and all of a sudden the posters started answering questions which were addressed to the Experts as they had always been. Things like 'feathers in diamond', 'does this crown and pavillion angle compliment each other'. No one ever mentioned that vendors no longer answer these questions so I will attempt to from previous knowledge from vendors, they just went right in and spoke what they thought was the answer and then other posters come along and parrot them. One of the things is blue fluorescence - this was always said to be a negative until BGD started selling those stones. Yes posters have learned knowledge here but all of a sudden they were now answer questions which others used to. As to things like depression, it was just a possiblity. Not saying people are mental for just maybe feeling something else were causing them to devote all their time as a distraction.


Putting the two together though that is what the newspapers would do, very strange and does promote cliffhangers.

<snip>
I just hope people are not doing this to cover up something else that is hurting them, and that they would seek proper medical attention if they are! e.g. I mean like depression and such.
There have been people over the years who have spent years and moved on, see I have been here for ever although not every day.


<snip>
There were many who all of a sudden left due to the Version 2 Pricescope coming online. Now I am not a computer expert but I thought that was just another application version although more pictures appeared. I have been left wondering why Version 2 made so many people disappear. I have asked more than once why that was the case but no one has answered me. Why did so
many people leave when Version 2 came online? There must be something which happened that other people were not privy too?

We have kidnapped all early PSers and have secreted them away never to post again! Aha! You have figured us out!

No, really, why the conspiracy theories? The real experts disappeared and those left may have mental issues? Really seems
odd that you would come up with this.

 

[pyramid]

Oh and since many of you were not here at that time, does anyone here know why hundreds left because of version 2. Not a conspiracy theory, just a question unanswered? Was it because those helping vendors could no longer answer questions so they left?

Anyone know why Lorelei left????

 

[Sunstorm]

This thread is SOOO interesting and has made me think a lot. Maybe naivity on my part but I have thought about myself being an avid Burberry fan so I am actually doing free marketing for them wearing their clothes which can be easily identified as Burberry and my telling others how much I love the brand, I wish I got money for it or even a discount Now perhaps some people are so happy with their experiences with certain vendors and love their stones so much that they are trying to give something in return?

That said such great points here Pyramid, I am very confused about the fluor issue myself as mostly in Europe it is considered a negative and will negatively impact value and I try to stay away from it especially in FCDs. Now I read a lot here about it being a positive factor?

Also, another thing I noticed is that people here always promote colors lower than E-F but as a result (and definitely not just the result of this forum) G-H stones have increased in price by something close to 20% quite recently so is it really worth getting lower colors anymore? Another poster on another thread mentioned that there was little price difference between an E and a G when she searched. It is not surprising after all everyone is looking for G instead of E.

Just food for thought. In Europe I hear from everyone go as high in color as you can. When cutters get slightly colored rough they cut it and send it off to the US. Almost always on this forum I read go down in color and I strongly disagree. There is a big visual difference, much less so when it comes to clarity. It is just that certain factors become fashionable that were not before. Everything is ok and G-H stones are certainly nice, tinted stones can certainly be attractive too but ideal E-F I have found have superb light performance.

 

[GeorgeStevens]

It just so happens that certain vendors thus become very fashionable here.

This is worth bearing in mind. Were the popular kids in high school popular because they were the most friendly or because others thought they were popular? Are certain popular diamond vendors popular because they really offer the best value, or because they reward those who tout them? All I know is that diamonds are a caveat emptor business.

 

[Dancing Fire]

One more thing I wanted to add Dancing Fire, I did mention that people may be here because they genuinely care and want to help and as I have stated that was my main reason to be here as well so why would most people like you have any other reason? I am absolutely positive that is not the case in most cases. To contradict myself a bit I am also not saying that anyone here gets commission but if they do not then certain vendors are very fortunate that others are doing the work for them.)

I can't speak for others, but I've always love diamonds since I was a little kid..

 

[teobdl]

A number of very helpful posters from the past have also been banned. I won't mention any names, and I'm not wishing to stir up controversy, but just stating a fact to help respond to Pyramid's observation. The archives don't lie.

I, too, hope that no "independent" posters are making commission. But unless I hear otherwise, I do assume that PS in almost certainly making one, though. I have many friends who have blogs w/ agreements from vendors like J Crew, Madewell, William Sonoma (or Sur la Table?), etc. whereby if you click on a link and buy anything on the site in that session, the blog owner gets a portion of the sale, flat rate or commission, depending on the agreement. It's quite standard these days.

 

[WinkHPD]

A number of very helpful posters from the past have also been banned. I won't mention any names, and I'm not wishing to stir up controversy, but just stating a fact to help respond to Pyramid's observation. The archives don't lie.

I, too, hope that no "independent" posters are making commission. But unless I hear otherwise, I do assume that PS in almost certainly making one, though. I have many friends who have blogs w/ agreements from vendors like J Crew, Madewell, William Sonoma (or Sur la Table?), etc. whereby if you click on a link and buy anything on the site in that session, the blog owner gets a portion of the sale, flat rate or commission, depending on the agreement. It's quite standard these days.

I will let Andrey speak for himself as the blog owner, but I will bet GOOD money that he is not taking any commissions from the sale of diamonds here. Many of us pay him a fee to advertise here and to list our stones, but at this time I am pretty sure that he is not receiving any commissions on the sales of our diamonds.

Speaking for myself, I am not paying any commissions to Pricescope and a good percentage of my sales come from Pricescope visitors.

Andrey and Leonid before him have gone to great lengths to keep things here totally transparent and to make this a welcoming forum for visitors and regulars alike. That is why we vendors must offer advice and not overtly advertise ourselves in the posts. I think it has fostered a comforting and open exchange of ideas.

Wink