Newbie Question on Blue Diamonds (pics included)

[blastdoor]

Hi all,

I have just started my diamond education a few months ago, began from a search for an e-ring for my gf but grew into an intensed interest... been through lots of theories and writings and recently started looking at the real thing...

and i came across this set of earrings with blue and white diamonds and when i first looked at it i was really impressed, but i started to think the blue diamonds look a little too nice to me...

so i am asking for advise, do all blue diamonds look like this? or is there any chance these might be czs? please understand that i am in no way doubting the owners of these earrings or their descriptions, with all due respect my request is more for guidance so i can learn to better appreciate diamonds in future..

btw these blue diamonds are stated as SI2~SI3..

thanks in advance...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/31/2009 11:42:25 AM
Author:blastdoor
Hi all,

I have just started my diamond education a few months ago, began from a search for an e-ring for my gf but grew into an intensed interest... been through lots of theories and writings and recently started looking at the real thing...

and i came across this set of earrings with blue and white diamonds and when i first looked at it i was really impressed, but i started to think the blue diamonds look a little too nice to me...

so i am asking for advise, do all blue diamonds look like this? or is there any chance these might be czs? please understand that i am in no way doubting the owners of these earrings or their descriptions, with all due respect my request is more for guidance so i can learn to better appreciate diamonds in future..

btw these blue diamonds are stated as SI2~SI3..

thanks in advance...

Hi Blast,

I can't say for sure if they are diamonds or not but if so, they are probably colour treated diamonds. Here is a thread with a few more examples in it.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/irradiated-blue-diamonds.104552/

 

[blastdoor]

oh... i just found and read the small prints, and they say...

"Fancy Intense Blue Enhanced Diamonds"

is this what you meant by treated Lorelei?

 

[neatfreak]

Probably irradiated.

 

[Pippin]

Diamonds that are that blue are almost certainly treated. And treated diamonds are almost certainly covering up major flaws.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi All!

Blastdoor, those are indeed, irradiated diamonds.
They take diamonds, and bombard them with radiation- this causes them to turn weird colors.

GIA will not issue a report on such stones as they are no longer considered to be natural.

All due respect to whoever is selling them, but the fact they are irradiated should be prominently disclosed IMO.

There are natural blue diamonds, but they look nothing like the "nuked" ones...
Small round diamonds are available in natural blue but they are not nearly as deep a color as the ones you saw- additionally, they cost well of $5000 per carat. Larger blue diamonds can have very deep color- and can easily go for hundreds of thousands of dollars for a one carat stone.
Hope this helps!

 

[blastdoor]

Thanks everyone, especially David for your detailed explanation and idea on pricing...

another good lesson learned..

btw David, i do enjoy the pics you have on your site... i''m no expert but they look stunning...

 

[strmrdr]

I think treated blues can be awesome I wouldn''t dismiss them because they are treated if that is what one wants.
While Wink doesn''t actively advertise them he has shown some in the past when we had winkTV.
A treated infinity cut would be awesome and something he could arrange.

www.winkjones.com

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 1/31/2009 12:23:32 PM
Author: blastdoor
Thanks everyone, especially David for your detailed explanation and idea on pricing...

another good lesson learned..

btw David, i do enjoy the pics you have on your site... i'm no expert but they look stunning...

You're welcome and thank you blastdoor!

Although I am not personallly a fan of them, I agree Storm, I would never discourage someone looking specifically for a treated stone.
As this thread points out- a lot of the sellers of treated stones are less than forthcoming about it- so it's important to make sure.

For sure if Wink carries them, he's got great ones.
Nuking an Infiniy might produce a really cool irradiated diamond!
I believe you need to start with a brown diamond, to have it end up blue after treatement.

 

[dkodner]

The real giveaway is the slight greenish cast that all the irradiated blue material seems to have, they all seem to have a certain tone that is very different from natural, and then of course the price. I wouldn''t say that because it is treated it is trying to cover up flaws, there is a real demand for treated product, and David is correct that the best material to "cook" tends to be a certain shade of brown, but not all brown material will work well. Some treated blues can really be beautiful, and they definitely serve a purpose in the world of jewelry and are very popular.
You will not see a lot of natural small round blue diamonds. Not only are they rare, but they tend to look very grey instead of blue. The round shape tends to wash out the color, and with the small size, they just do not look that blue, excepting some very very rare material.
David I think you were too kind to say "with all due respect" to the seller who listed these as natural blue diamonds, and then later says treated in fine print. IMHO the people that list this way are purposely trying to defraud. Yes, it may be a "natural" diamond, and then it is blue, but to say natural blue is deceptive at best. I see this all the time on E-bay and I cannot believe that they get away with such deceptive descriptions.
Not long ago I had the opportunity to see a laboratory grown (not nuked) fancy intense blue diamond by D.Nea, and I have to admit, they really do look natural. In fact, I put this Asscher cut grown blue up against a natural vivid blue emerald cut, and they were the same tone of color, perfectly. Of course the Vivid blue was much more saturated in color than the intense lab grown, but if I did not know what it was, it would have fooled me as a natural until I really studied it. I think they were selling the lab grown stone around $5-6000.00, and the natural is $350,000.00. Pretty nice alternative if you don''t have a bucket of $$ laying around.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Dkodner!
It's true eBay has a lot of deceptive ads for irradiated diamonds- if only that was the only place.
I've seen a lot of non disclosure ( or really hard to notice disclosure) all over the Internet- to say nothing of the myriad of brick and mortar stores that conveniently neglect to let people know the colored diamonds they offer have been irradiated. I see we agree that's as problem.

I agree about blue melee- the color is so hard to see, and setting blue does not offer an opportunity in setting like a yellow- or pink.
A natural light yellow set in yellow gold, or pink set in rose gold may pick up color, but there's no setting method as effective to use with blue.

 

[blastdoor]

hmm... so from what i've been reading so far.. can i say that there are cases where people irradiate diamonds on purpose to achieve certain colors, and not necessarily in attempt to cover up flaws?

and people do buy irradiated diamonds 1) because they are a lot more cheaper than naturally colored diamonds, and 2) they are still diamonds after all and not like (edited to add in "not like") other precious stones like a topaz or sapphire or even a cz?

but then again, if these irradiated diamonds were exposed under strong radiation (or "nuked") so much so that they achieve a color change, would the color eventually fade off due to whatever reason?

and (this may be a little far-fetched) wouldn't they continue to carry a radiation charge that might affect their wearer in long run and cause some bodily harm?

 

[strmrdr]

the treatment is permanent and they are required to be checked by a Geiger counter before they are shipped.
After a batch of hot topaz was found on the market a while back they tightened up the laws.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I think the best way to explain this is follow the dollars.
Irradiated diamonds are never going to bring high prices.
The diamonds they start with must necessarily be inexpensive if the person doing the irradiating hoped to make any money at all.
The dark colors resulting can hide imperfections- so in addition to being brown, imperfect diamonds are preferable- simply due to the price.

The folks selling them generally claim it's totally permanent- it is unreversable.
It's also claimed that no residual radiation exists. ( edited to add- thanks Storm, I did not know that!)
Why do people by them?
Good question- but why do people buy any diamonds.
Some are very interested in completely colorless diamonds, others with natural colors. Generally, if someone loves natural fancy colors, they don't want irradiated- but of course there must be exceptions.

 

[blastdoor]

thanks everyone... i do think the irradiated blue diamonds are nice but at the same time they also look a little crystal toy-ish to me... right now i''m inclined towards getting a couple of these irradiated blue diamonds to have a better look and hopefully understanding towards them... the photos i''ve seen look great, but i doubt they tell the complete story...


and regarding ebay sellers, there have been quite a few threads here about them (including two currently still active ones initiated by Glitterata and Drewbot)... but train wreck or beauty, deceptive or otherwise, ebay is still a great source of "awe-inspiring" photos for a newbie to look at..

once again, thanks to everyone who has so generously shared their knowledge here...

 

[Catmom]

I think people buy them because they like the color and they are rather inexpensive comparitively speaking. I know I bought mine as a fun piece due to the color of the stones and the setting and the price was right.

 

[LD]

If you want a blue diamond and can't afford a natural one then I don't see the harm in buying these.

One word of caution. With irradiated blue diamonds, you can get, just like with white diamonds, the full range of clarity from I2 dreadful looking stones to VVS and even IF. For the smaller stones (like in earrings) you won't see the inclusions necessarily but for a bigger stone you need to look for a good clarity - just as you would with a white diamond.

I have a 1.23ct heart shape, VS that I bought it for £1211 which is just under $2k. I also bought a .70 round brilliant cut, VS again for £500 (about $750). They sparkle like crazy and, as I said, are a good substitute if you can't buy a natural one.

So go for it!

ETA - just noticed that the photos of some of mine are in the link that Lorelei provided in a post above if you want to take a peek!

 

[blastdoor]

indeed... different colored stones to go with different colored gowns.. of course, that''ll apply to the FW... i''ll just be in my same-old shirt and pants... but hey, if she looks good, i look good... if she''s happy, i''m happy...

but nonetheless, i''ll pass on those i attached at the beginning of this thread... they somehow look a little too "nuked" to me... right now looking at either a pair of loop earrings with little pink melees or a pair of blue studs...

btw.. anyone bought any black diamonds before? the opaque types... are these any good? and any idea on the prices for these (i have seen a huge difference in price on ebay from different sellers)?

last but not least, thanks thanks... this is turning out to be a really nice educational tour for me...

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Date: 1/31/2009 3:03:49 PM
Author: strmrdr
I think treated blues can be awesome I wouldn''t dismiss them because they are treated if that is what one wants.
While Wink doesn''t actively advertise them he has shown some in the past when we had winkTV.
A treated infinity cut would be awesome and something he could arrange.

www.winkjones.com

Thanks strmrder for an unbiased reply.

I have a .75 Irradiated RB that is beautiful in every way. It is just a matter of preference IMHO.

Lisa

 

[Rockdiamond]

You're welcome blastdoor!

You asked about black diamonds: these are also irradiated to achieve the color.
In terms of price they should be a fraction of treated pink or blue diamonds.

Hope this helps!

 

[ksinger]

Date: 2/2/2009 9:05:51 AM
Author: Rockdiamond
You''re welcome blastdoor!

You asked about black diamonds: these are also irradiated to achieve the color.
In terms of price they should be a fraction of treated pink or blue diamonds.

Hope this helps!

tiny threadack -

Hey David! Nice to see you here! You may recall I bought that Sam Spade .75 yellow radiant from you some time back. LOVE it! I have a thread for it. They aren''t such great pics, but you''ll get the idea of what I did with it. Thanks for being such a genuine pleasure to deal with!

Karen

end threadjack

 

[RNgemlover]

blue diamonds are more than 5000.00 a carat. a .25 fancy LIGHT blue is 6,200.00 where i buy stones. a .17 fancy INTENSE blue is 11,900.00. .09 fancy blue is 2,900.00. 1.04 fancy dark bluish gray 104,000.00. .50 fancy vivid blue 200,000.00. Price is your i.d. for natural fancy in my opinion lol! I always know... If I cannot afford it... it's natural fancy lol! Interesting comparison... a .74 purplish red was priced at 750,000.00! lmfao!

 

[LD]

I have to say that I''m not a fan of black diamonds BUT I''ve got one that I love!!!! It''s a 4ct pear shape which is quite unusual as most are round brilliant cuts. I paid £250 (about $325 ish) but in all honesty it was from a dealer friend - I think I would have had to pay much more otherwise.

Here''s a link so you can see pictures of it ................. oh, by the way, it has fantastic fluor and looks like a blue alien!

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/black-diamond-set-in-logr-setting.101517/

 

[Rockdiamond]

Cool ld!

Actually we''ve seen a 100plus carat irradiated black cushion that was less than $100 per carat- so in terms of price $100 per carat or less sounds about right for a large one.
The smaller melee stones for jewelry should be a lot less than $100 per carat.

Another point about representation: Since treated stones will not have GIA reports, sellers calling treated stones VVS and Internally Flawless are making claims that can''t be substantiated.
As far as treated stones- clearly it''s a matter of taste- but in terms of representation, there''s a lot to be desired in just about every ad I''ve seen.....


Hi Karen- THANK YOU!~!!