Newbie...my experience with a B&M...advice wanted :-)

[BK24]

Hello everyone. I’m new around here, but I’ve been lurking here a good while. I appreciate how often the “regulars” post here and all the great info available. I’ve learned a ton just browsing around…so thanks!

I apologize in advance for asking all the usual newbie questions (and for rambling on and on)…but I’d like some honest advice.

I went to my local B&M yesterday (actually, I’ve been there 3 times now…but that’s irrelevant) and met with the owner of the store. From what I’ve heard, he is one of the more respected jewelers in town (Kansas City) and comes recommended by my g/f and her parents (they buy all their jewelry from him.) Naturally, there is some “unspoken” pressure (though not a lot) to buy her ring from him because they trust him and know him. I think my g/f and parents both are a little leery of buying a diamond “online” – which is not surprising, though my g/f said I can “do what I want.” My g/f and I have been in and picked out a couple settings she likes so I had planned on buying the setting from him regardless of where I get the diamond (I’m now not as sure about this)…but naturally, the store owner was not nearly as “keen” on me bringing my own diamond in – though he said he would set it. If I buy everything from him, of course he’ll discount the ring itself 20% etc, but if I buy a diamond elsewhere, no discount on the ring – which is fine. That’s business.

So, I visited with him yesterday for 30 minutes+. He is a very nice guy, very personable and friendly. The store is a “mom and pop” kind of place and been run by his family for quite a few years. I asked him to show me a G color and H color stone…just to see if I could tell the difference…which I could…but barely. Anyway, he gave me the “expected” response to buying diamonds online – they switch Certs on you, you never know what you’re getting, blah, blah, blah. He touted his return/upgrade policy saying online vendors won’t do that (GOG does.) He says he only buys good diamonds, etc, etc… These were some of the things he said, “I don’t chase Certs.” He chases “cut and color.” He said Certs cost $250 to get (at least) and he wants beautiful diamonds, not numbers. He showed me a G, SI2, .74 and an H, SI1, .71. (Oh yeah…he busted out a 10X Loupe and had me look at the stone. He pointed out where the inclusion(s) was/were – but me looking at a diamond through a Loupe is like me trying to read Greek. ...Not very productive. I have no clue what I’m looking at.) He said he doesn’t have anything lower than an H color diamond, blah, blah. We talked about cut a little bit and he threw out a few big words, but would never really specify exactly what the cut was on the diamonds I was looking at. He said he wants great cut and great color – but he made no mention of “ideal” or stuff like that. I’m sure at this point, I painting him out to be real shady and I honestly don’t think he is. He just relies on his personality and loyal customers to sell diamonds – not necessarily the diamonds themselves – though I’m sure they’re “okay” or else he couldn’t stay in business. I’m sure most customers he gets/keeps don’t really know the first thing about truly high-quality diamonds – they just trust him. He said he’d sell me the .74, G, SI2 for $3200 – which is $500 less than a lady quoted me a month ago at the same store (it does help to talk to the owner…) I thought the $3200 price was much closer to what I thought it was worth, but still overpriced…considering how little I actually know about the exact specs of the diamond. I can get an ACA from Whiteflash or an H&A from GOG for less than that (and they’re SI1.) I’m also very interested in the Solasfera and Eighternity diamonds (though they are a little out of my budget…but I still might splurge. They sound really awesome!) It has also become apparent to me that *I* care a lot more about this diamond than my g/f. (Weird huh?) She’s like, as long as there aren’t big black specks in it, she’s good. She also said she’d go for size over quality, (again, no big surprise) but I’m much more of a quality guy – or at least a good balance. She doesn’t understand how/why I spend hours on forums like this researching things and asking questions. (She really is great though…trust me!!) I try to tell her that that’s just my personality…I am a chronic “researcher.” Always in search of every review, opinion, or experience relating to whatever product I want to buy (cars, electronics, whatever… Aren’t forums great???!!) I get satisfaction from knowing that I got the absolute best thing for my money. I guess it’s hard to explain to someone who isn’t “like that.” (BTW, I am looking for something around .75 ct, G or H, and SI1 – in case that wasn’t clear. Budget of under 4K…preferably closer to 3K.)

Whew. Sorry for that big tangent. So, I’m trying to decide if I should just get everything locally – knowing it will satisfy my g/f just fine (though not necessarily *me*), or get an ACA/H&A/Solasfera etc… online, satisfying my own craving for the best quality diamond I can get. (Obviously, I’m pretty sure I know the answer I’ll get from an internet forum, (Haha) but I’m still looking for some honest opinions from everyone.) It’s weird because I almost feel “guilty” if I don’t buy from the local guy – but I think I’m just a softie at heart and am easily swayed by people who are nice and friendly. Ultimately, I have to do what’s right for me, but I’m trying to decide what “that” is.

So, any thoughts/opinions/advice? Sorry for such a long post. I’m sure I forgot some important details too, but I can add them in when I remember them. LOL

I appreciate everyone’s counsel…since I consider you guys the “real experts.”

Thanks

BK

 

[jaz464]

When you say that he said he chases diamonds, not certs and that certs cost $250, does this mean that his diamonds are not certified? I would not be very comfortable buying a diamond w/o a GIA or ACA, but that's just me. I really don't think I would let the future-in laws dictate where you get the diamond from. I guess my opinion is what you would expect. I would search throught the big vendors like GOG and WF and see what they have. When you discuss the diamonds you looked at, you don't really sound too enthusiastic. I would not want to spend my hard-earned money on something that did not jump out and really impress the hell out of me. You can get the most for your money and one of the trusted PS vendors and they will be very helpful and honest every step of the way. Even someone uneducated about diamonds like your GF will love the sparkle and quality of a well-cut stone. And keep in mind, that many PS vendors will send the diamond of your choice to an independant appraiser in your area so you can see the diamond w/o making any committment. The most you would have to pay would be shipping.

 

[BK24]

Thanks Jaz,

I didn''t press the issue, but yeah, my understanding is that his diamonds aren''t certified...though he did mention he doesn''t trust the EGL (or whatever the European cerification is) and he does trust GIA, but I guess now I''m confused as to what he was getting at??? Maybe his diamonds are certified, but to get an actual certificate...it''s $250.00. I don''t know...??

I know...the future in-laws aren''t pressuring me really - maybe I misrepresented that part. They did gently *nudge* me toward this store though... Again, I just need to do what *I* think is best and not worry about what they think. If I get it independantly appraised...they shoudn''t care.

 

[lumpkin]

There are two things you can do.

It is your fiance''s ring. If she really prefers a diamond and a ring from this jeweler, get it for her. Set your budget and get the best he has. Some women have a very romantic idea about their engagment ring that really is not about the four Cs and certificates. They want a story they can remember and tell to your children, etc. In other words, the ring is about the romance, not the specs.

OR, if you really feel (as I would) that you need to get the most for your money, buy your stone on-line and find a local jeweler who will be enthusiastic about setting the diamond and making a sale on a ring.

First, make the decision to either buy on-line or buy locally. Don''t go into your local jeweler and tell them you are looking for a diamond on-line. They generally can''t compete with the on-line prices and many don''t do certs, for whatever reason. If you buy a diamond from a local jeweler, plan to buy the ring there as well. They will not like selling the diamond and having you shop elsewhere for the ring (personal experience) and you might not get the best price on the diamond (which price is already higher than what is available on-line).

If you choose to buy on-line, do so, then when you have the diamond you are satisfied with, go talk to the local jewelers. Anyone who doesn''t want to mount it for you is turning away a sale. Period.
I also live in the Kansas City area. I can tell you that Toner Jewelry mounted a diamond I already owned and did a beautiful job without any attitude whatsoever. The workmanship was very nice. I''ve never bought a diamond from them, but I like the overall attitude of the people at the store and like their selection of jewelry. If you end up buying a stone on line I think they would be very happy to help you find a really lovely setting for it.

 

[strmrdr]

I think you allready know which way you want to go and want reassurance that its the right thing.

Go with your hearts desire.
If that is a kicken super-ideal diamond online then that is what you should do.

 

[Mara]

Here's my thoughts.

If your GF just wants a sparkly stone with no visible inclusions, you can get that online or offline. Either way.

Go with your gut. But there's no reason you can't get a super ideal H&A if that is what you want, your gf will be happy since it sparkles and you can get your education on with the online stuff.

You can always get the setting from the local guy too...alot of people do that.

In my experience, a local 'friend knows the family' kind of jeweler is not always the best place to buy your stuff. We did that and while he has fabulous jewelry and great settings, in terms of STONES...we kind of made a boo-boo by going there and not sticking to our guns with what we were looking for. We fell in with the 'oh this one is good' kind of thing even though I was pretty educated at the time. Also we felt a little pressured to make the sale with the guy since my best friend's family always shops with him, and also my fiance had bought earrings from him before so he felt sure that this was the way to go (little did we know that the earrings we bought were not what they said they were but that's another story). Our jeweler was also a bit old school, aka wasn't interested in the IdealScope I sent him and didn't believe in that online whooey kind of attitude. But he's got a good business with long-term clientele and to be honest we probably just weren't the best type of clients for him. He was used to working with people who took his word on things and didn't ask for more details or even a Sarin. I'm sure we were a big pain in the bootie for him.

That said, there are B&M's out there that do believe in more education, will run Sarins or get scope images etc...so there are offline people like that too. So either way.

Anyway, go with what you want to do, but I don't see why you can't give everyone what they want, aka your GF an amazing sparkly stone with no eye visible inclusions, and you can have the experience you want, whatever it may be. Good luck!

 

[Hunali]

I can completely understand your gf's and her parents' perspective b/c that is exactly how my parents and I reacted when my bf told me that he wanted to buy a stone online. I was shocked and totally against it (I was uneducated about diamonds at the time). We had a local jeweler that my my family bought jewelery from, and we trusted him in that he would sell us a diamond that was good quality. But then, when I decided to learn more about diamonds, I realized that no store even had close to what the pricescope vendors were selling.

Of course people are hesistant about buying online b/c they want to make sure they get what they are paying for and are not cheated by unreputable online vendors. It made me feel a lot better to know that the company he wanted to buy from was an actual store and not some unknown name.

My bf took me to local jewelry stores to see in person regular cut diamonds, ideal cut diamonds, and H&A. There is DEFINITELY a difference between ideal cuts and regular cuts, and H&A stand out from both. Hearts and Arrows sparkle like crazy. After seeing H&A (so unique and beautiful!), I knew that's the diamond I wanted.

I am sooooo glad that my bf decided to go with an online company b/c no store can beat their quality or price! I haven't seen my diamond yet (ring not done yet), but I know that it was the best decision. As for the setting, he is custom making it locally.

Would it be possible for you to talk with your gf about diamonds and explain to her the quality differences? My bf totally changed my mind about buying online when he went with me to some local jewelery stores to show me what good cut, ideal cut, and what h&a looked like. I think that the better deal as well as quality is online, but you should do whatever she is comfortable with b/c if she's not comfortable with it, then she'll be disappointed, and that'll make you unhappy. I would just talk to her and explain to her the differences. I highly recommend you and her going to see the different stones in person so that she can make a more sound decision.

Good luck!!!!! Let us know what you decide to do. I'm sure you'll get an amazing stone no matter what route you choose to go!!!

 

[Shay37]

Obviously you have to do that which makes you the most comfortable. Here then is my .02. I would not buy a diamond that, if it came with a cert, was already overpriced. Without one, it''s anybody''s guess what you are getting. I am real big on getting what I pay for. If I pay for a G SI2, it darn well better be one. That means GIA or AGS period. (there are a couple of others but these are the big two)

If the diamond is already more than what you could buy a top of the line H&A superideal online with the same color, a higher clarity, and a cert from a reputable grading facility, then there is only so much loyalty and touchy feely my GF really likes this guy I could stand. Bottom line, with a cert it''s not a great deal. Without a cert, it''s a horrible buy and a crap shoot to boot.

If you really didn''t want my honest opinion, I am sorry for being so blunt.

Shay

 

[phoenixgirl]

The whole, "It costs a whole $250 to get a cert!" line is really, really lame. You would gladly pay $300 more knowing that you were really getting a G, SI1, right? Because if it''s an H SI2 instead (or worse), then the difference in price would be more than that.

I agree that getting an ideal cut is the way to go. My only piece of advice is to consider going down in color and/or clarity a little. You said your girlfriend wants size over quality. I don''t think she''ll notice a few color or clarity grades, but she will notice if you get her a 0.90 instead of a 0.70.

Here are some ideas:

1.017 J SI2 ACA H&A for $4057 (the lower price is what''s quoted when you pull it up through the PS search engine)

0.76 G SI1 H&A for $3482

0.738 G SI1 ACA H&A for $3038

0.77 F VS2 H&A for $3925

0.776 E SI1 ACA H&A for $3713

0.82 G SI1 H&A for $3738

0.94 F SI2 for $3949

0.90 G SI2 AGS0 for $3969 This gets all Ex''s on the HCA and has a good spread (bigger than most of the crappy one carat stones out there)

Basically, $3 to $4k is a really healthy budget for an ideal 3/4 carat stone. You have some room to play. You can stretch and get a 1 carat J SI2 or get a 0.8 or 0.9 without straying much from your color and clarity requirements.

 

[ame]

I vote wholeheartedly for Solasfera. Holy snot those look cool. Its worth a premium. They are cut better than about anything Ive seen, and have the coolest pattern.

If you get one, Ill be so jealous.

 

[Regular Guy]

BK,

I don''t know that I have much value added to provide here, because in all, I think you''ve gotten some excellent advice. You might consider following the yellow brick road of comments, from Lumpkin''s insights, to Hunali''s open window, referencing Rhino''s idea, and Phoenix Girl''s great suggestions. Not wanting to complicate this further, but as you know, many of the diamonds listed here on the quick search are available to all vendors, too (like your local guy). So, for example, if you wanted to engage your sweetheart in a review at your local store, you could consider selecting one (or two?) from GOG or WF, and further, even asking your local vendor to bring in one you see on the Quick search board...maybe like this one (also available through WF). Certainly, being sensitive to your girlfriend''s history with the store, and involving her in the selection (maybe try to get the store owner out of the way, and leave your girlfriend and you to make the selection by yourselves, with just the options in front of you to choose between) could be a way to go.

Regards,

 

[BK24]

Thanks everyone for all the advice – I greatly appreciate it.

Strmrdr:
You are wise and quite perceptive. Yes, online is what I really want to do – I just need a little affirmation. I’m still not positive what I’m going to do in the end…but your insight is valued.

Mara:
I was hoping you would chime in. Yeah, I know I can get the setting locally…and that was/is what I’ve been thinking about doing…though I’m actually leaning toward getting it all online from GOG or somewhere similar. I know the type of setting she likes and Precision Set has some that are very similar. Wow, your experience with your local guy sounds quite similar to mine. I love friendly, nice sales people, but I’m the kind of person who wants the “specs.” I can tell that my local guy sells most of his jewelry to those to take him at his word. Maybe, like you, I’m just not the right kind of client for him??

Hunali:
Again, you sound a lot like my g/f and her parents. I have talked to her about it a little and she says I can do what I want – albeit with that “slight guilt-trip” sort of tone. I’ll let you know what I decide to do. Thanks for sharing your experience. It makes me feel a little better.

Shay37:
Thank you! I think you expressed my feelings to a “T.”

Phoenixgirl:
I know what you mean. I think a .90 or higher is just too much $, but I have been looking at some of the stones you listed in the .75 range.

Regular Guy:
Thanks for the advice. The longer I think about it, the less I want to involve my local guy. I know my g/f will be fine with whatever I choose, so I need to relax a little and “go with my gut” like everyone has advised.

I have a couple more questions:
If I buy a stone online, do I need to have it sent to me and appraised, then have it sent back to the vendor (GOG, WF, etc…) to mount it in the setting (assuming I buy the setting from the same place as the stone?)?

How do you go about insuring a ring? Can you use your regular insurance company or do you have to use a specialized company?

Thanks again to all for the help.

 

[belle]

Date: 10/10/2005 12:40:23 PM
Author: BK24
I have a couple more questions:
If I buy a stone online, do I need to have it sent to me and appraised, then have it sent back to the vendor (GOG, WF, etc…) to mount it in the setting (assuming I buy the setting from the same place as the stone?)?

personally, i think an intermittent appraisal is unecessary, but that decision is entirely up to you. if you need to do this for your peace of mind, then you should do it. i would not hesitate however to have wf or gog set a stone without having it looked at myself.

How do you go about insuring a ring? Can you use your regular insurance company or do you have to use a specialized company?

most insurance companies offer a jewelry policy in addition to the homeowners insurance. you can also look into companies that specialize in jewelry, such as jewelers mutual.