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New all-digital GIA report

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Texas Leaguer, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 18, 2012
    I just noticed that GIA has come out with a new lower cost all digital report. It contains a magnified image of the actual diamond.

    I'm curius to see opinions on this new report. Will it be widely adopted? Is it a game changer? You can see how it works by going to the GIA report check site and entering the sample report number and weight given at the end of the article.

    http://www.gia.edu/nav/toolbar/newsroom/news-releases/2012-news-releases/gia-unveils-digital-diamond-report.html
     
  2. kenny
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    by kenny » Feb 18, 2012
    Cool.
    Thanks for posting that Bryan.



    Interesting the lighting they chose for the pics.
    It looks like semi-dark field to help expose inclusions but not fully dark field which makes diamonds look extremely dark.

    Also, the date on that report is in April 2012...so GIA must have bought one of those new time travel machines so they can issue reports for the future. :mrgreen:

    gggg.png

    dddddd.png
     
  3. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Feb 18, 2012
    I like it a lot!!!!
    Bravo GIA!!
    Will a picture be available on line for diamonds with a paper report also? anyone know?
     
  4. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 18, 2012
    Good question. It would make sense that since they are already set up for the photography that they would capture a digital image of every stone that comes in. And make it available somehow. Presumably you would be paying for everything except the paper and postage. When you buy the paper report you should get access to the image as well. At least that would be a customer friendly way to do it!

    I have put in an inquiry with GIA on details. I will let you know what I find out.
     
  5. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 18, 2012
    While they are working on perfecting their time travel capability they should put some resources in teleporting research. That could really cut down on postage. :twirl:
     
  6. diagem
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    by diagem » Feb 18, 2012
    Nice, I wonder how their fancy shaped pictures look like.
     
  7. Ravinmad
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    by Ravinmad » Feb 18, 2012
    I want royalties, I suggested it on PS BEFORE they released the product . :lol: :rodent: :lol:
     
  8. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Feb 18, 2012
    lol I suggested it here over 8 years ago
     
  9. Ravinmad
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    by Ravinmad » Feb 18, 2012
    I suggest a 80/20 split. You get 80% of nothing, and I get 20% ;)
     
  10. denverappraiser
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    by denverappraiser » Feb 18, 2012
    Very cool. I wonder what their photography setup looks like.
    No plot? Any idea if a girdle inscription is included/required like with the dossier?
     
  11. kenny
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    by kenny » Feb 18, 2012
    Me too.

    I imagine one of the most proprietary things in the diamond industry is the photography set ups.
    It is so important, and so sensitive and makes such a difference.

    I am really into macrophotography and diamonds.
    Since I'm a civilian, a few vendors have revealed a few things to me over the years regarding their set ups.
    Every time they have been VERY explicit that whatever they tell me is tip top secret.

    I have never violated their trust.
     
  12. denverappraiser
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    by denverappraiser » Feb 18, 2012
    They say it's to be a about 10% cheaper than the dossier and DQR services, which have different prices. Perhaps there's to be two different versions.
     
  13. Ravinmad
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    by Ravinmad » Feb 18, 2012
    Its an Iphone 4S with SIRI and she handles all the details. :naughty: Truefully I hope this catches on in a much bigger way and you can get "addons" to your E-report.
     
  14. denverappraiser
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    by denverappraiser » Feb 19, 2012
    I do think this is going to be a popular service, especially if it doesn't prevent someone from ordering a different format, at an additional fee, if they want. That is to say, if a dealer can use this and then the retailer or consumer can order in the printed DQR on the same stone without the need to send it in for an additional inspection.

    My biggest worry is that people are going to want to find more data in the photograph than is actually present. 'Is this hearts and arrows?', 'How is the light performance?', or 'Is this SI2 inclusion eye visible?' come to mind.

    Overall I think it's a giant leap forward.
     
  15. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 19, 2012
    Both great points Neil. How GIA chooses to roll it out will certainly impact the adoption rate. The way you laid it out is how I would be thinking if I were GIA. Create incentive for the manufacturers to adopt the all-digital report as a default, and give the retailer and/or consumer the option to obtain the paper report at a reasonable upcharge.

    Regarding the use of the information contained in the digital image, that will require education. I think dealer to retailer will not be too difficult (good news for adoption rate). Retailer to consumer will present more of the challenges you refer to. As a retailer operating to a large extent in the e-commerce channel, we rely upon good imaging. But with a variety of images in our package, we have to provide solid guidance to customers in interpreting each image type and then putting it all together for a complete understanding of the diamond's performance. In fact, we recently created a dedicated page on our site for this very purpose and our visitors seem to find it very useful.
     
  16. Rockdiamond
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    by Rockdiamond » Feb 19, 2012
    I LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!

    What a great idea.
    Like Yoram, I want to see how not only fancy shapes are photographed- but also how U-V, W-X, and Y-Z stones photograph from GIA.
    I wonder why they stop at 2.99cts.....
     
  17. oldminer
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    by oldminer » Feb 22, 2012
    I took a screen shot of the inclusions found in the sample stone report. They look larger than what would be a VS1 inclusion amount, more like VS2 or even SI1. Maybe they just wanted to make the inclusions readily found as an example only, or possibly they may have a problem with VS1 and up inclusions with this photo system. For sure, the search magnification tool handles a rather small surface area and one must go over the stone just as with a hand-held loupe to find anything in the stone. It would be nice to have markers indicating the areas where inclusions can be located. A plot is easier to use, but more difficult to draw by hand. A plot created by image analysis would be faster and more direct. Maybe they will work on that soon enough.

    GIA sample rep.jpg
     
  18. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 22, 2012
    FYI By way of answer to one of the questions I posed to my contact at GIA, I was told that they are only capturing images on stones sent in for the new e-report. If I get any other feedback I will pass it along.
     
  19. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Feb 22, 2012
    booo!
    Would be nice if they were doing it for them all.
     
  20. denverappraiser
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    by denverappraiser » Feb 22, 2012
    Are they currently accepting stones for this service?
     
  21. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 23, 2012
    I assume so. The press release and the info on the GIA site indicate it is an available service. I am double checking.

    One of the questions I asked my rep which I have not had a response to yet is about the magnification level of the image. Is it somehow consistent such that the market would know it is 10x or ?X. Is the physical image on the report the same size for all stones?That is, a .50 would have to be enlarged to appear the same size on the report as a 1.00. And, if so, does that entail zooming at the catpure stage (additional mangnification) or some other enlargement of the image that would keep magnification constant.
     
  22. Paul-Antwerp
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    by Paul-Antwerp » Feb 23, 2012
    No inclusion-plot, no laser-inscription included in the eReport. It is a giant loophole, in the sense of consumer-protection or a sign of absence of consumer-protection.

    All a dishonest diamond-retailer needs, is a report-number for the carat-weight of the diamond he has, and he can present a virtual digital report on-screen, claiming that this is the report for that stone.

    I have always regarded the automatic laser-inscription of the GIA-Dossier, as an identifier, in the absence of an inclusion-plot. I find it unacceptable to have a report-format with neither.

    Live long,
     
  23. oldminer
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    by oldminer » Feb 23, 2012
    Paul, you make an excellent point here about fraud prevention and misuse of documents. I wonder if your issue was considered and how GIA came to this result. Is there some identifier we are not aware of? It does look like an unfortunate way to abuse consumers without some further guidance.
     
  24. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 23, 2012
    You know, it is strange. The new report, while tantalizing, really creates more questions than it answers. And I have not been getting much in the way of concrete info from my main contact at GIA. My sense is this is a test. I may be wrong, but I'm not sure they have decided where this really goes, which strikes me as very un-GIA-like.

    I did get confirmation, as I said, that the e-reports are available and that only e-report diamonds are being imaged. I have inquired about magnification specs without response. I have also inquired about pricing, without an immediate response.

    I am trying to figure out what the big picture is here. I see a scenario that could be very powerful. And it would alleviate the concerns that Paul and Dave mention. If the e-report was sort of a top-of-the-supply-chain tool at a reasonable price it would be widely embraced by the manufacturers. Downstream dealers, jewelers and consumers should be able to order paper reports when it was appropriate to give max confidence. The price structure could be tiered such that it would be a net revenue enhancer for GIA, but represent value for each type of customer. But this pre-supposes that all the analysis would be done upfront and reports distributed out on an as-needed or as-wanted basis, without the need to re-submit the diamond to the lab.

    As it seems to stand now, the e-report is going to be almost as expensive as a full report. But if you transact on the basis of the e-report and need or want a full report, you are going to have to send the stone back to the lab anyway for plotting (?) and pay full price for a new cert(?). If that is the scenario, I don't think it is compelling- for anyone in the distribution chain. It then simply becomes another report (albeit one with some new info), that adds to the clutter of choices, and is without the confidence builders of plotting or inscription. Certainly, for GIA it would be a bonanza if manufacturers were ordering e-reports to facilitate trading and dealers and jewelers continued to order paper reports for confidence and presentation to consumers. But somehow I'm skeptical that a program that does not add value all along the chain is going to be very sucessful.

    Maybe I am jumping the gun and making erroneous assumptions here. I guess we will witness this together as the facts become clear and as it rolls into the trade. Perhaps this time AGSL can learn from the steps and mis-steps of GIA. I am sure they are studying things like this, maybe even tuning in to this thread to see what people here think.
     
  25. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Feb 24, 2012
    I love the concept and hope GIA implements it properly as noted above by Bryan, Paul and Dave.
    IE: require inscriptions and paper reports available at extra charge without sending the diamond back.
    I think it is a very powerful value added service.
    I would like to see the images available for all GIA graded diamonds.
     
  26. denverappraiser
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    by denverappraiser » Feb 24, 2012
    If the retailer or consumer who wants a paper document needs to send it back, pay the shipping, insurance and lab fees anyway, they might as well just send it to AGSL. They already KNOW what GIA has to say after all and this provides both a second opinion and a more complete report. They'll even do a girdle inscription if you want. Going back to GIA takes weeks or months, costs a bag 'o money, and learns nothing new.
     
  27. Texas Leaguer
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    by Texas Leaguer » Feb 24, 2012
    Update:
    Here is a reply that covers a couple questions that I asked my contact at GIA. His answers are in bold:

    -------
    Yes, I have tried it out and it is very cool. We are just trying to understand how to answer the inevitable questions we will get from customers. If you can get any more technical info on the image specs I would really appreciate it. The image size remains the same regardless of the size of the diamond. So a 0.30ct and a 3.00ct will be the same image size on Report Check.
    Also, in terms of pricing- if we order an e-report, then customer wants a paper report, is it necessary to send the diamond back for plotting? Yes need to return or if it is still in-house can ask for conversion to full or Dossier- Or is that captured at the time the e-report is done? And the e-report costs about 10% less than a full report. What is the additional cost if you have an e-report but want also the paper report? To have a Full Report or Diamond Dossier it would be 75% of the appropriate Full Grading or Diamond Dossier fee for the diamond carat weight on our fee schedule.
    -----------
    Based upon the way that I now understand them to be rolling it out, I am less inclined to think this is going to be a game changer for GIA. Assuming a plot and/or inscription and/or a paper report are ultimately required by the consumer, which they will be to a very large extent, there is little incentive to get the e-report. There are cheaper ways to get a decent image of the diamond, which many dealers are already figuring out.

    Hopefully, AGSL will be able to benefit from taking a different path.
     
  28. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Feb 24, 2012
    wow, they are blowing it :{
    I hope they read this and reconsider.
    I just cant see myself recommending anyone use it with the current rules/procedures.
     
  29. denverappraiser
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    by denverappraiser » Feb 25, 2012
    Thanks Bryan.

    I agree, implimented this way this doesn't seem to be adding much in the way of value for anyone in the chain, and providing value to your client is the customary key to success in nearly every business venture.

    Just out of curiosity, if someone sends in a stone that previously has an eReport done and the client doesn't know it (meaning they weren't told by their supplier), do they get the discount for an 'upgrade' or do they still have to pay full price? GIA will surely check it with their matching system anyway so THEY will know that they've seen the stone before but they get to make an extra few dozen dollars by not admiting this. Seems tacky. On the other hand it may be sticking their foot in the mouth of their client (the first client) by fessing up to this. It may even be a violation of their own privacy policy.
     
  30. Paul-Antwerp
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    by Paul-Antwerp » Feb 27, 2012
    Karl,

    What aspect specifically makes you decide that they are blowing it? I see many aspects that I do not like, but some of these might have value for part of the chain, thus might be defendable.

    Live long,
     

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