NEVER admit you don't want children ...

[momhappy]

I agree - this does work both ways, or at least it should. I have had experiences similar to the ones Monarch has had, where childfree women make rude comments about pregnancy, parenting, etc. No, I am not jealous of your childfree life I made my choices and I am happy with them, much like I presume you are happy with yours

 

[KaeKae]

I've never understood the nerve of people who make such comments. Maybe it's because several couples in our family have experienced fertility issues. I can't imagine how painful it must be to be questioned on such a personal topic. Well, I can, because we waited 6 years before we had our first. But, that was by choice, not situation, so it wasn't painful, just annoying and I was able to do the Ms. Manners stare and say: "That's a strange (or personal) question."

 

[Sky56]

No children, long happy marriage, great life, turning 60. If someone doesn't like it and tells me, they're just an idiotic busybody.
If you are a great parent, I have nothing but respect for you.

 

[gregchang35]

This is my response to that:

GYPSY.. WOW!!!

Love this...

 

[kenny]

Speaking as a forward-looking person ...

I'd never be so rude to tell a parent to their face that them having kids is bad.
But every person (even recycling Prius-driving lefties) contributes to global warming.
Overpopulation is real.
The science is in and human-caused global climate change is real.

We first-worlders have carbon footprints much higher than world average.
When we think of overpopulation we think of places like China and India ...
But not many of them are living in 5000 sq ft homes and driving CO2-belching SUVs.
Nor do many have FCD collections.

Yes it's totally your business how many kids you have, but I think the IRS should end tax deductions for kids.
Of course people will quickly bring up the need for growing populations to maintain healthy and growing economies and the need for new workers to fund Social Security.
But tell that to the millions who are going to have to relocate because of rising oceans that result from polar ice melt that results from carbon emissions.
Rising seas forcing relocations has already started.

It's time to pull our heads out of the sand.
It is time to end a taboo.
Talk with your friends and family about how the formerly-sacred and taboo topic of # of kids to have is no longer 'nobody's business'.
We should limit population growth ... think globally and act locally.

We have to change, or else.

Kenny ... donning flame suit.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

This is one of Kenny's best posts. I have admired the Chinese for dealing with over population by allowing only one child per family. I realize that this policy has changed recently to now allow for 2 children. But, they recognized a problem and tried to confront it head on.

We are so used to thinking that we have a right to anything we want that I know there will be many who object to even the thought of population control. But it makes sense that someday it will be necessary. We are not an endangered species, and could use some thinning out.

Kudoos to Kenny for being brave enough to bring it up.

Annette

 

[momhappy]

It seems rather odd that you shouldn't ask someone when/if they plan on having children, but you should talk to them about how they should reproduce responsibly so that they don't contribute to the destruction of our planet If we are going to have respect for people's choices about having kids (or not having them), then that respect needs to work both ways. It's not that I don't agree with you, kenny, because I do - I think that the world is overpopulated enough, but I don't think that it is any more appropriate to go around talking about how many kids people should have, than talking to someone about why they choose to be child free. I'm not a fan of large families with oodles of children, but it's not my place to say who should have kids and how many. My hope is that there is a growing number of people who choose to be child free and that it will at least help to off-set the overpopulation. I don't think that talking to friends and family about responsible reproduction is going to save the planet at this point...

 

[kenny]

The CF are often called selfish.

With climate change the CF might be seen as self-less.

 

[momhappy]

^that would assume that a child free choice is due to environmental reasons. Most people that I know choose not to have kids for personal reasons, not global ones. Although, again, I agree with you, that if the decision not to have kids has a positive impact on the Earth, then that makes it all the more worthwhile

 

[kenny]

Granted.

AND, even if the person chose to be CF so they could have more money for the highest carbon footprint lifestyle possible at least their huge carbon footprint ends when their embalming fluid leaches into the water table ... as opposed to having kids who have kids who have kids who have kids who do the same.

IOW all CF people are helping the planet last a little longer for those who did have kids.
The IRS should give the CF the tax deductions that parents have enjoyed all these years.

 

[Arcadian]

Monnie, I am curious. You mention some people who are child free by choice being in your face about it. I would think (and maybe I am wrong and that is why I am asking) that it is much more frequent to experience people who have children being more in your face about the decision not having them than people who don't have children being in your face about having them. Does that make sense?

I completely agree with you in that I don't like anyone being in my face about my personal decisions that do not affect that individual personally. Please just leave me alone. Live your life and I will live mine. You (the general you not you Monnie!) live your life the way you want to and I will live my life the way I want to and we can both be happy!

I sort of agree with Ada's post about more of a backlash against women (and men) who choose NOT to have children.

Anyway my motto is and always has been Live and Let Live (as long as you don't personally affect me negatively that is LOL). Have all the kids you want but I beg you, please be able to support them.

Wouldn't it be great if people would just accept freedom of choice and diversity and embrace differences so we could all live happily in peace and love and acceptance?

Missy, when I commented about CF by choice folks being just as in your face about their views, I should have clarified and noted that that was MY experience but maybe not anyone else's. I've heard for years now from women I've worked with or befriended that they hate kids and would never want "an alien" or "parasite" in their bodies, let alone go through labor and delivery or breastfeed. That it would "ruin" their body, that they would never want stretch marks or any damage to their undercarriage. While I was breastfeeding I had at least 2 women tell me "those are made for sex and that's it" and "is that baby off the tit yet?" These were educated, affluent women, not "peasants" or uneducated women of lower socioeconomic status. I've heard negative speech from women about choosing to have children as well as any other choices regarding child-rearing, and it's hurtful. I would NEVER share my opinions with anyone on the topic unless asked, and even then I would tread lightly and take care not to hurt feelings with my words. It's totally ok for everyone to have whatever opinion and make whatever choice is right for them, but it's not cool to make comments (on either side of the issue) that imply that another's choice is not the right one.

Perhaps the issue is that many people don't seem to have been raised with manners, or taught that "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." Or maybe it's that many aren't very intelligent and can't think of anything to talk about other than a woman's uterine intentions.

Monarch, they were rude as hell. I would have let them chicks have it with both barrels. If those idiots knew anything about biology they would know that women have the bodies we do pretty specifically for baby-making. Just because emotionally some of us don't have it in us to want a baby, doesn't mean we can deny a scientific truth.

For me, my body, my choice. Someone else can decide what they want and if its to have kids, so be it, I respect that decision because someone has to populate the planet!!!

I actually do like kids and they like me, I'm just glad I didn't have any of my own.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The CF are often called selfish.

With climate change the CF might be seen as self-less.

What global warming?? I am freezing here.

 

[momhappy]

Granted.

AND, even if the person chose to be CF so they could have more money for the highest carbon footprint lifestyle possible at least their huge carbon footprint ends when their embalming fluid leaches into the water table ... as opposed to having kids who have kids who have kids who have kids who do the same.

IOW all CF people are helping the planet last a little longer for those who did have kids.
The IRS should give the CF the tax deductions that parents have enjoyed all these years.

I have a couple of CF friends who live quite luxurious lifestyles (large dual incomes and no kids to spend it on...), so I suppose you could argue that at least their carbon footprint ends with them (and not their offspring, and the offspring of their offspring, etc. etc. etc.), but I wouldn't exactly call that living responsibly (in terms of the environment). Again, I don't have an issue with a CF lifestyle - I'm simply responding to your comments

 

[kenny]

The CF are often called selfish.

With climate change the CF might be seen as self-less.

What global warming?? I am freezing here.

Don't worry.
Climate change only affects liberals.

 

[chemgirl]

Hi,

This is one of Kenny's best posts. I have admired the Chinese for dealing with over population by allowing only one child per family. I realize that this policy has changed recently to now allow for 2 children. But, they recognized a problem and tried to confront.

China's one child policy sounds OK on paper, but the reality is pretty horrifying if you look in to how they enforced these rules.

There are now families coming forward and their stories are just disgusting.

Eta: maybe a way of doing it would be ending tax incentives for couples who have more than x number of children.

 

[random_thought]

On the flip side, I can't get pregnant. You should see the lectures I give out at the grocery store to strangers who inquire into my uterus' business.

 

[kenny]

On the flip side, I can't get pregnant. You should see the lectures I give out at the grocery store to strangers who inquire into my uterus' business.

Sorry people are such buttheads.
Do the offenders usually apologize, or get defensive?

 

[december-fire]

On the flip side, I can't get pregnant. You should see the lectures I give out at the grocery store to strangers who inquire into my uterus' business.

If only common sense and common decency were actually common in society.

Why do people assume that all childless couples are childless by choice.

Yes, there's adoption. But theory and practice can be quite different stories.

My heart goes out to you and your partner. I wish you the best.

Re: China's one-child policy
For years, statistics have shown that the number of males per females (117 to 120 or more males per 100 females) don't reflect what is normally expected (about 105 or 106 males per 100 females). Even accounting for reporting issues, the statistics indicate that something has been happening.

Re: World Population
The attached presentation is quite interesting, in my opinion. Its 58 minutes long, but informative and well-presented. Worth watching if you are concerned or interested in world population.

If the link doesn't work, look for the youtube video 'Don't Panic - Hans Rosling showing the facts about population'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E

I hope I don't get the boot from PS for thread-jacking. It took me ages to finally stop lurking and actually start posting.

 

[random_thought]

On the flip side, I can't get pregnant. You should see the lectures I give out at the grocery store to strangers who inquire into my uterus' business.

Sorry people are such buttheads.
Do the offenders usually apologize, or get defensive?

No, usually they just are dumbstruck and I walk away.

Although I did have one lady insist that I must just not be doing it right...so um...there's that. Lol

Thanks folks, I'll be here all night!

 

[random_thought]

december- can we get booted for thread jacking? Thanks for the well wishes

 

[momhappy]

I think that there will always be completely clueless people no matter what the topic. Some people simply aren't smart enough to know that certain subjects can be sensitive for some people. I don't think that some people necessarily intend to be malicious about it, but I can see how it might feel that way to someone on the receiving end of some awkward questions. I would hope that most of us know that there are just certain things you don't ask - like "when's the baby due?" for example - I won't even ask that if a women looks like she's about to give birth any moment....

 

[Dancing Fire]

The CF are often called selfish.

With climate change the CF might be seen as self-less.

What global warming?? I am freezing here.

Don't worry.
Climate change only affects liberals.

So true! Our President think that he can change the course of Mother Nature...

 

[kenny]

The CF are often called selfish.

With climate change the CF might be seen as self-less.

What global warming?? I am freezing here.

Don't worry.
Climate change only affects liberals.

So true! Our President think that he can change the course of Mother Nature...

The oceans will rise and flood wealthy oceanfront communities.
But the water, like Moses parting the Red Sea, will magically not touch homes owned by republicans.

 

[Dancing Fire]

The CF are often called selfish.

With climate change the CF might be seen as self-less.

What global warming?? I am freezing here.

Don't worry.
Climate change only affects liberals.

So true! Our President think that he can change the course of Mother Nature...

The oceans will rise and flood wealthy oceanfront communities.
But the water, like Moses parting the Red Sea, will magically not touch homes owned by republicans.

There will always be global warming and global freezing somewhere on earth, so no, I don't believe human beings can change the course of mother nature.

 

[kenny]

The CF are often called selfish.

With climate change the CF might be seen as self-less.

What global warming?? I am freezing here.

Don't worry.
Climate change only affects liberals.

So true! Our President think that he can change the course of Mother Nature...

The oceans will rise and flood wealthy oceanfront communities.
But the water, like Moses parting the Red Sea, will magically not touch homes owned by republicans.

There will always be global warming and global freezing somewhere on earth, so no, I don't believe human beings can change the course of mother nature.

Okie Dokie, then.
That settles that.

 

[packrat]

Can't end tax incentives for kids. B/c that infringes on the rights of those who feel it's our duty to take care of them when they have multiple kids by multiple dads and don't feel the need to provide for them as a parent. That would take away from welfare if you end those tax credits. And we have the right to have as many kids as we want, regardless. We will never regulate in that manner, wouldn't matter if by doing so we could solve any problems, make the world a better place for those of us already on it, or prolong the future of the planet, nope, no way, no how. We can never ever ever give up anything, ever. And as ridiculous as that is to me-that would be a form of regulating a woman's body and we can't do that.

And the next time I hear there's no such thing as global warming b/c it's cold outside I'm going to shove a foot up someone's be-hind.

 

[Dancing Fire]

And the next time I hear there's no such thing as global warming b/c it's cold outside I'm going to shove a foot up someone's be-hind.

Try to convince the people who are living in the midwest and east coast that there is global warming... That part of the country set record lows last winter.

 

[Gypsy]

This is my response to that:

GYPSY.. WOW!!!

Love this...

I do too!

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="kenny|
There will always be global warming and global freezing somewhere on earth, so no, I don't believe human beings can change the course of mother nature.[/quote]

Okie Dokie, then.
That settles that.[/quote]


My heating bill is gonna be sky high next month... what global warming?..

 

[monarch64]

I'm not going to quote all the posts I love on this page because that would make mine too long!

Kenny, I love your views and reasoning/favor of CF lifestyles. I would NEVER say someone who makes the choice to be CF is selfish! If you know you don't want children, who the hell are other people to try to persuade you otherwise? It simply isn't necessary for everyone to have kids for so many reasons, and there is just no good argument for bringing unwanted children into this world and onto this planet.

Arcadian, yes, I have been the recipient of some really rude comments. Before I had a child, while I was pregnant, after I gave birth, and to this day since I "only" have one. I like Tekate's description: "idiotic busybodies." Seriously, what stake do you have in the contents or lack thereof in my uterus??? Oh, and yes, sometimes I'd have a morning half/caf (half decaf, half caffeinated coffee) where it was self-serve and a guy said to me while I was serving myself and visibly pregnant "I sure hope that's decaf!" I could've SMACKED him.

There is just no reason in the world to offer unsolicited advice to people, period. About anything. There should be one of those books for Dummies: "Learning How to Keep Your Trap Shut for Dummies." It goes right along with what we are (mostly) all taught about making assumptions.

An aside: when I had my baby, I had NO IDEA that I would feel this way or even think it, but suddenly I wanted 10 more! Welp, not only is that unrealistic, it would be selfish for me personally. I don't care how many others have, but I have the good sense to understand wants vs. needs and practicality overriding biological desires. I have days I feel like one isn't enough somehow, but my window of opportunity is about 2/3 shut and I'm not going to have another just because abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz reasons why others think I should.

And that's how I feel about THAT.